Full Metal Jacket (1987)

[TrippleOG]

The worst war movie ever is THE THIN RED LINE.. Watch that if you have Insomnia. Guaranteed to make you pass out, then you will wake up when there is like 5 minutes of straight gunfire and Nick Nolte screaming.

 

[GhostZ06]

you got girlfriend vietnam???

love the movie, as someone else said Eyes wide shut was by far worse than this

the interviews youre on about are an attempt to show what differeing attitudes of some of the soldiers over there were like, the filming locations they used never bothered me...but youre right about it looking like part of war torn europe

the movie has some great lines in it...not only in the bootcamp scenes but onward thruout the whole film

the shooting women and children line
the no boom boom with soul/sun brother ((too booku))
the 5 dolla make ya holla
etc etc

I dont think its in the same league as Apocalypse Now((what is??)) but it has its place, I for sure wouldnt call it a piece of crap

probably my favorite vietnam movies in loose order are
Apoc Now
Hamburger Hill
Full Metal
Thin Red Line
Platoon
with the bottom 4 pretty much easily interchangable

thats world war 2

 

[BisexualMMA]

The worst war movie ever is THE THIN RED LINE.. Watch that if you have Insomnia. Guaranteed to make you pass out, then you will wake up when there is like 5 minutes of straight gunfire and Nick Nolte screaming.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Rambo 2 was filmed in Mexico, and I never questioned it for a second.

Tropic Thunder was filmed in Hawaii (Kauai).

 

[Pixelated Porn]

Nowhere did I say this or even imply it. With Kubrick, whether you watch a movie of his for the first time and love it or hate it, it will invariably get better with time and repeat viewings. It's just the way his movies work. In five years, having watched it two or three more times, you may not consider it the GOAT war movie, but whatever you think of it overall, whatever initial criticisms you still feel mar the film and/or whatever new criticisms you pick up along the way, your general sense of the film will very likely be higher than it is right now. That's all I said.

As for the stuff you're wrong about: You don't need time and more viewings to fix that. I can just tell you what you're wrong about right here.

I will teach you



Perfect example: You're wrong, and here's why.

Ok, I guess I shouldn't jump the gun. First, I have to make sure I'm thinking of the same scene you are. Are you referring to the tracking shot while "Surfin' Bird" is playing? If not, then nothing I say here will matter and I'll make a subsequent post in response to the correct scene. If so, then you're wrong in terms of where you're directing your criticism. Your criticism presupposes that Kubrick intended his tracking shot to bring us into the film and make us feel like we were there with them in the heat of battle. But that's not what Kubrick was going for with that shot.

First off, let's underscore the fact that Kubrick needle drops "Surfin' Bird" right after an intense combat sequence that unfolded with natural sound. The point is to be jarring and highlight the strange confluence of the real and the surreal (one of Kubrick's recurring themes and why any invocation of realism in relation to Kubrick must be qualified). As for the tracking shot itself, it's important to point out that, technically, it's a second-layer tracking shot. That is, Kubrick's tracking shot is tracking a tracking shot. The documentary crew is there looking to get their "cool" war footage. It's their idea to track down the line. Kubrick's camera, meanwhile, isn't looking to capture the reality of combat by going down the line of soldiers. Rather, Kubrick is calling attention to the documentary crew and how ludicrous the entire spectacle is, from the zombified soldiers just staring at the camera because they've been in the shit so long, to the medics trying to get the injured/dead soldiers to helicopters without bumping into the camera, and finally to the "stars" who can't help hamming it up.

A famous line of Kubrick's, which he told Jack Nicholson while shooting The Shining, was that his goal was never to photograph reality but to photograph the photograph of reality. Nowhere in Kubrick's entire career is this logic more explicit than this sequence from Full Metal Jacket where Kubrick is literally filming people filming people. Kubrick absolutely strove for realism in Full Metal Jacket, but realism for Kubrick is a starting point, it's not the finish line. Kubrick always looks to move beyond the "merely" realistic and penetrate into deeper thematic territory.

That shot is one such example.

 

[TrippleOG]

Wow that's the worst one ever then.

 

[Pixelated Porn]

I don't remember, like I said it's been 20 years since I last watched it. I did say my comments should be taken with a grain of salt, for that reason. I guess you missed the start of the conversation.

Do tell, what happened to him?

Is wearing a peace button not a form of "speaking his mind as well? Are soldiers allowed to wear buttons?

His boss gave him a dangerous assignment in the shit.

a general there saw his piece sign and gave him shit for it.

 

[Pixelated Porn]

Wow that's the worst one ever then.

missing in action 2 was awesome with the rat in a bag over chuck's face....who you think won that battle???

 

[BisexualMMA]

missing in action 2 was awesome with the rat in a bag over chuck's face....who you think won that battle???

After ten days of agonizing pain, Chuck died.

 

[Bullitt68]

I can't think of one minute that I would cut from Platoon.

Kubrick was a fantastic director, in the running for best ever, and made many great films and many more great cinematic decisions. But I don't feel that he never made a misstep.

Two more non sequiturs to add to the pile. First off, I never said that Kubrick should've cut that stuff from Full Metal Jacket. That should've been clear from my lengthy defense of it and my explanation of the way it functioned in the larger context of the film. Second, I never said that Kubrick "never made a misstep." In fact, in my first post, I literally said the opposite.

Also, since it's been brought up multiple times, including by you, I have to say that Platoon is near the bottom of the Vietnam War movie pile for me and is, behind Saving Private Ryan, IMO the most overrated war movie ever. I can actually remember renting them both during one of my early childhood forays into war movie territory. I loved Full Metal Jacket and hated Platoon. Nowadays, I don't hate Platoon, but I've seen it three times and I've retained nothing. I couldn't tell you what it's about (beyond the Vietnam War), I couldn't tell you any of the characters' names, I couldn't tell you any of the big scenes (other than Charlie's terrible acting when he's making the dude dance), and I have no idea how it ends. And I'm not particularly keen to ever watch it again.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Two more non sequiturs to add to the pile. First off, I never said that Kubrick should've cut that stuff from Full Metal Jacket. That should've been clear from my lengthy defense of it and my explanation of the way it functioned in the larger context of the film. Second, I never said that Kubrick "never made a misstep." In fact, in my first post, I literally said the opposite.

Also, since it's been brought up multiple times, including by you, I have to say that Platoon is near the bottom of the Vietnam War movie pile for me and is, behind Saving Private Ryan, IMO the most overrated war movie ever. I can actually remember renting them both during one of my early childhood forays into war movie territory. I loved Full Metal Jacket and hated Platoon. Nowadays, I don't hate Platoon, but I've seen it three times and I've retained nothing. I couldn't tell you what it's about (beyond the Vietnam War), I couldn't tell you any of the characters' names, I couldn't tell you any of the big scenes (other than Charlie's terrible acting when he's making the dude dance), and I have no idea how it ends. And I'm not particularly keen to ever watch it again.

My "pile" of non sequiturs? Why do you take such an arrogant tone when discussing something as subjective as movies? In addition to your outright statements that people are "wrong" in their interpretations of a subjective medium...it's just kind of a disincentive to continue the discussion.

Anyway, if you can't remember Barnes and Elias by name after watching Platoon, I don't know what to say. With as much attention as you've paid to Full Metal Jacket, that's a very shallow memory of Platoon. No memorable scenes other than Charlie Sheen making that guy dance? You don't remember this?

You don't remember Platoon being about anything other than the Vietnam War in general? The contrast between Elias and Barnes said more to me, in real human terms, about the insanity of war than anything that happened in the second half of Full Metal Jacket.

I'm just not going to tell you that you're outright wrong for viewing things differently.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Also, I found most of Full Metal Jacket's platoon to be barely distinguishable from each other, aside from Animal Mother. What distinguished the black guy from Arliss Howard other than his being black?

Meanwhile, I found the characters on both sides of the divided group in Platoon to be fleshed out in great detail. John C. McGinley and Matt Dillon were on Barnes' side, but nothing like him or each other. Nor would I confuse the behavior of Francesco Quinn, Charlie Sheen and Willem Dafoe on the other side. Each of them provided a different and real human response to the conflict in the platoon and the war as a whole.

On the other hand, the group in Full Metal Jacket had Animal Mother acting the same as Matt Dillon, and then a platoon full of guys that were sketched out in about as much detail as was given to Forest Whitaker in Platoon. Matthew Modine was really no different from Arliss Howard, with the exception that he told a lot of annoying jokes.

Describe Arliss Howard's character for me if you can.

Describe Dorian Harewood's. What can you say about him other than that he was black, wasn't particularly well-endowed and didn't enjoy getting shot?

The black characters in Platoon grouped together to provide some commentary on race and the draft. The black guy in Full Metal Jacket was basically just there for a dick joke.

 

[Eyepokesftw]

Very over-rated move.

Apocalypse Now is by far the best war movie created.

 

[Bullitt68]

My "pile" of non sequiturs?

I like my words. That's why I post them. Seeing them distorted makes me sad.

Why do you take such an arrogant tone when discussing something as subjective as movies?

Lots of reasons.

1) Because I'm arrogant.

2) Because I've been studying movies academically for nearly a decade, am currently doing a PhD, and plan on teaching film studies in universities for the rest of my life, so movies are very important to me. In Tom Cruise voice: I do this for a living.

3) I think Kubrick is the GOAT, so for as special as I find movies in general, I find his movies to be particularly special.

4) Because I don't believe that movies are so subjective that the concepts of right and wrong do not apply. I think it's entirely possible for someone to get something wrong about a movie. I've proven others wrong about shit and I've been proven wrong about shit. Proving someone wrong about a given aspect of a film may not be sufficient to overturn their larger opinion of the film as a whole, but it's a start. My favorite example is when @Ricky13 convinced me that I didn't understand the mechanics of the relationship between Tom Cruise and Emily Blunt in Edge of Tomorrow. At the start of our conversation, I called it shitty writing. At the end, I liked what I'd previously called shitty because Ricky showed me what I was wrong about. Starting from "it's all subjective" gives up the game before it starts, it shuts down the possibility of debate, of give-and-take, of considering different angles, of seeing films anew. It chalks shit up to mysticism, to the ineffable ebb and flow of "taste," which is defined in this account as that which happens to someone through supernatural means rather than that which is cultivated by someone through active, rational effort.

With as much attention as you've paid to Full Metal Jacket, that's a very shallow memory of Platoon.

Yes, it is. There are plenty of movies I've only seen once a number of years ago that I remember better, which indicates how unimpressed I was with Platoon.

No memorable scenes other than Charlie Sheen making that guy dance?

Not only is my answer no, but "memorable" in reference to the dance scene is meant to indicate that it's memorable because bad. I remember very little about the film and remember nothing that was good.

You don't remember this

Well that's the poster image, so I obviously know that's in the movie, but I don't remember who kills him or why or what happens before or after or how the actual scene unfolds.

You don't remember Platoon being about anything other than the Vietnam War in general?

I can offer zero plot information.

I'm just not going to tell you that you're outright wrong for viewing things differently.

Maybe I am. And if I do ever rewatch it - maybe if the movie club ever gets around to it - I'll be sure to give you the chance to prove me wrong. Since I remember nothing about it, though, it's not a discussion we can have here unless I were to pull a Beardo.

 

[BisexualMMA]

2) Because I've been studying movies academically for nearly a decade, am currently doing a PhD, and plan on teaching film studies in universities for the rest of my life, so movies are very important to me. In Tom Cruise voice: I do this for a living.

Hopefully you don't take the joy out of the field for your students.

Also, there's an ancient folk saying... A wise man knows what he says; a fool says what he knows.

I find a good measure of what you have said about films to be quality insight. But there's actually no point in continuing with compliments or criticism, because you view yourself as being above either.

 

[Bullitt68]

Hopefully you don't take the joy out of the field for your students.

If my student evaluations are to be trusted, I don't.

Spoiler

It still counts even if I bribed them to give me good feedback with higher grades, right?

But there's actually no point in continuing with compliments or criticism, because you view yourself as above either.

Another non sequitur.

 

[Striderx5]

Gunny is a boss. Realistic pov in my experience as far as boot camp. Love this movie

 

[BisexualMMA]

Another non sequitur.

I really don't think you understand when a non sequitur is actually an issue in a debate.

 

[Bullitt68]

I really don't think you understand when a non sequitur is actually an issue in a debate.

A non sequitur is when a conclusion does not logically follow from its premise(s).

Premise 1: Bullitt studies movies.

Premise 2: Bullitt is arrogant.

Conclusion: Bullitt considers himself above compliments and criticism.

This is a non sequitur. The conclusion may be true, but whether it's true or false, it's independent of the premises. And, as it happens, this particular conclusion is false. It's a distortion of what I actually think, as can be seen clearly in what I've posted in this thread, and it makes me Jones sad face.

I think it'd be more accurate to say that you don't understand when a non sequitur is an issue, otherwise you'd make more of an effort to understand what I say and why I say it. But since you find me irritating, you don't seem to find such effort worth your time, and if you distort what I say in the process of rationalizing your dismissal of the "subjective" thoughts of mine that fail to confirm what you already think, that's a small price to pay for your peace of mind.

I'd be fine with all of that, but since a consequence is that Full Metal Jacket is getting dirt kicked on it, I'm afraid you're stuck with me for the duration of this thread.

 

[BisexualMMA]

A non sequitur is when a conclusion does not logically follow from its premise(s).

Premise 1: Bullitt studies movies.

Premise 2: Bullitt is arrogant.

Conclusion: Bullitt considers himself above compliments and criticism.

This is a non sequitur. The conclusion may be true, but whether it's true or false, it's independent of the premises. And, as it happens, this particular conclusion is false. It's a distortion of what I actually think, as can be seen clearly in what I've posted in this thread, and it makes me Jones sad face.

I think it'd be more accurate to say that you don't understand when a non sequitur is an issue, otherwise you'd make more of an effort to understand what I say and why I say it. But since you find me irritating, you don't seem to find such effort worth your time, and if you distort what I say in the process of rationalizing your dismissal of the "subjective" thoughts of mine that fail to confirm what you already think, that's a small price to pay for your peace of mind.

I'd be fine with all of that, but since a consequence is that Full Metal Jacket is getting dirt kicked on it, I'm afraid you're stuck with me for the duration of this thread.

I can't be held responsible if you want to assume what my premises were.