(Fox Business) UFC is booming

[StonedLemur]

I'd like to se where that says it was over 3 fights?? Please show me.

And if he lost, of course his pay goes down. Why would Francis make the same amount as a contender?? It's not lucrative for the UFC to pay him large if he's not a champion.

Im pretty sure he says it on Rogans podcast sir.

 

[JBJisGOAT14]

Faux is credible lol.

 

[JKS]

Im pretty sure he says it on Rogans podcast sir.

It was around 8 million for just the Jones fight my friend. I remember he said this on the Hellwani podcast. Helwani asked him if his deal with make him the highest paid HW and he said he can't know because he doesn't know what the other HWs made. Helwani said that Brock made around 8 million for UFC 200 and then asked Francis is his deal for the Jones fight was higher or lower. Francis responded "For the Jon Jones fight, about that"

 

[StonedLemur]

It was around 8 million for just the Jones fight my friend. I remember he said this on the Hellwani podcast. Helwani asked him if his deal with make him the highest paid HW and he said he can't know because he doesn't know what the other HWs made. Helwani said that Brock made around 8 million for UFC 200 and then asked Francis is his deal for the Jones fight was higher or lower. Francis responded "For the Jon Jones fight, about that"

No it wasn't but I'm certainly not going to track it down.

 

[skylolow]

Seems like they're consistently making money but have a way too high valuation. I saw somewhere that the org is worth 11B USD. That's like Telsa level of absurdity.

Probably about right especially when they do the new TV deal in the US.

 

[skylolow]

Owners/Investors will always get paid more than the athletes share in any profitable sports franchise. Even in the NFL they only get to balance it out slightly every 10 years or so when the Players association get to renegotiate the CBA deal and that really is only on the surface that it looks very fair to each party. But with in a year or to you can guarantee the other side(owners) is taking home a larger percentage than what was negotiated at the time and continue to reap those rewards for years.

Even when the fighters ever get of their ass's and do something about it, the Dana's of the world will still make bank.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

Seems like they're consistently making money but have a way too high valuation. I saw somewhere that the org is worth 11B USD. That's like Telsa level of absurdity.

Typical for debt-strapped companies to put everything into increasing the valuation so they can coast on investors' money longer.

 

[JKS]

No it wasn't but I'm certainly not going to track it down.

LOL, yes it was. Here, let me help you out amigo....



Right at 13:20.

And this is coming from Francis himself. So there is no disputing it.

 

[Superzorro]

"Pay Francis well" ahahahahaha. Lick that corpo boot buddy. Meanwhile boxers with no name recognition are getting paid 20x what the ufc offered their heavyweight champ. Stop lying and shilling for a corporation. Have some dignity

Which no-name boxer makes more than that? I'm curious.

 

[weaselkenievil]

Man sherdoggers are retards. Proof right here

You call other posters retards a lot, hmm.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

Im pretty sure he says it on Rogans podcast sir.

It was 8 mil for Jones and then something like 2 million per each additional fight. The contract in total was something like his Fury fight contract.

Which no-name boxer makes more than that? I'm curious.

The guy that fought for a title on the Garcia-Haney undercard is a defending champion making $300k lol.
Boxing fanboys are literally deluded. Literally not a single "no-name" boxer is getting offered 20x what Francis was offered LMAO

 

[Crash-override]

Define well sir, and please don't say the $8 million number because that's not what the contract said.

What did the contract say, where can I read it?

 

[blackheart]

Dignity a prize fighter

You're mocking the notion of a fighter having dignity? Why tf do you watch this sport if you hate all of the people competing in it? MMA has the weirdest and shittiest fandom in all of sports I swear to god.

A dude that steps into a ring/cage and fights another trained combatant in hand-to-hand combat, putting his heart, determination and skill on display in front of a live audience, doesn't have dignity? But the cheeto-dust-fingered nobody that I'm replying to does have dignity? Okay buddy.

 

[blackheart]

It was 8 mil for Jones and then something like 2 million per each additional fight. The contract in total was something like his Fury fight contract.


The guy that fought for a title on the Garcia-Haney undercard is a defending champion making $300k lol.
Boxing fanboys are literally deluded. Literally not a single "no-name" boxer is getting offered 20x what Francis was offered LMAO

Shakur Stevenson. Lomachenko. Devin Haney. Naoya Inoue. Errol Spence Jr. George Kambosos. Caleb Plant. Billy Joe Saunders. I could go on.

These guys are NOT PPV draws. They have ZERO name recognition in the average American household. Yet they have been paid millions and millions and millions of dollars. I'm not saying those guys aren't incredible boxers and that they don't deserve every penny. I'm just calling a spade a spade. If you asked the average American sportsball fan - "hey do you know Francis Ngannou, the UFC heavyweight champion?" A good % of them would say something to indicate recognition. "Oh yeah that huge scary African fucker? I think I've seen a fight/highlight or two!" Ask the same average American sports fan "do you know who George Kambosos is? Caleb Plant? Naoya Inoue?" They would completely draw a blank. No one outside of the fight world knows who those guys are. Yet, MAGICALLY, boxing finds a way to pay them millions and millions of dollars. Meanwhile, household names from MMA, get paid low 6 figures and Reebok coupons.

Also - I love how you posted a self-own in an attempt to own me. You're telling me, an UNDERCARD boxer was paid $300,000? And you think that's an own against boxing? When was the last time an undercard UFC fighter got paid $300,000 for their undercard fight? Has that happened even once in the history of the UFC? But that's supposed to be a diss against boxing? LOL. Methinks you didn't think that one through too much buddy.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

Shakur Stevenson. Lomachenko. Devin Haney. Naoya Inoue. Errol Spence Jr. George Kambosos. Caleb Plant. Billy Joe Saunders. I could go on.

These guys are NOT PPV draws. They have ZERO name recognition in the average American household. Yet they have been paid millions and millions and millions of dollars. I'm not saying those guys aren't incredible boxers and that they don't deserve every penny. I'm just calling a spade a spade. If you asked the average American sportsball fan - "hey do you know Francis Ngannou, the UFC heavyweight champion?" A good % of them would say something to indicate recognition. "Oh yeah that huge scary African fucker? I think I've seen a fight/highlight or two!" Ask the same average American sports fan "do you know who George Kambosos is? Caleb Plant? Naoya Inoue?" They would completely draw a blank. No one outside of the fight world knows who those guys are. Yet, MAGICALLY, boxing finds a way to pay them millions and millions of dollars. Meanwhile, household names from MMA, get paid low 6 figures and Reebok coupons.

Also - I love how you posted a self-own in an attempt to own me. You're telling me, an UNDERCARD boxer was paid $300,000? And you think that's an own against boxing? When was the last time an undercard UFC fighter got paid $300,000 for their undercard fight? Has that happened even once in the history of the UFC? But that's supposed to be a diss against boxing? LOL. Methinks you didn't think that one through too much buddy.

That's an "undercard" fighter that is a defending champion.
When a defending champion is paid $300k by the UFC it is a travesty, but in boxing it's a good thing? You don't see the hypocrisy?
Not a single one of the fighters you listed are "no-name boxers".

 

[RampageFaction]

Yet he's made more in 2 fights than he did in his entire MMA career.
Id say that KO was worth every dollar sir.

The freedom to box and do MMA was worth it even more.

 

[blackheart]

That's an "undercard" fighter that is a defending champion.
When a defending champion is paid $300k by the UFC it is a travesty, but in boxing it's a good thing? You don't see the hypocrisy?
Not a single one of the fighters you listed are "no-name boxers".

They are boxers that have no mainstream name recognition. You are deliberately dodging my point and trying to strawman my position in order to avoid responding to my actual position, because you know I'm right. They have no name recognition in average sports fan households. Are you going to try and argue that George Kambosos, Caleb Plant, Devin Haney, etc., have as much or more name recognition than Francis Ngannou? As far as mainstream sporting goes - those are no-name boxers. They are world champions. They have strong followings and fandoms in their local areas. But they are still no-name boxers in the world of sports.

Btw, who is this undercard "champion" you keep referring to? Are you talking about Joe Goodall? Who has 13 total professional fights? Who is the WBC "Australsia" "Champion"? That is not a world champion my guy. And he wasn't even a defending champion in that fight. His WBC Australsia title wasn't on the line. It was for the WBC international heavyweight title which he didn't currently have - and even that title isn't a world title. He held a regional title from one of the four boxing major boxing organizations. In MMA, he is the equivalent of being a top 5 regional fighter. And yet he is making $300,000 on boxing undercards? Again - you think that's an own? When in reality it just adds MORE evidence to the point that pay in MMA is dogshit? Excluding Alex Pereira and Ronda Rousey - can you name me any professional mixed martial artists that are making $300k in only 13 pro fights? I'm still waiting for you to name me one single mixed martial artist on a UFC undercard that has made 300k or more.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

They are boxers that have no mainstream name recognition. You are deliberately dodging my point and trying to strawman my position in order to avoid responding to my actual position, because you know I'm right. They have no name recognition in average sports fan households. Are you going to try and argue that George Kambosos, Caleb Plant, Devin Haney, etc., have as much or more name recognition than Francis Ngannou? As far as mainstream sporting goes - those are no-name boxers. They are world champions. They have strong followings and fandoms in their local areas. But they are still no-name boxers in the world of sports.

Btw, who is this undercard "champion" you keep referring to? Are you talking about Joe Goodall? Who has 13 total professional fights? Who is the WBC "Australsia" "Champion"? That is not a world champion my guy. He held a regional title from one of the four boxing major boxing organizations. In MMA, he is the equivalent of being a top 5 regional fighter. And yet he is making $300,000 on boxing undercards? Again - you think that's an own? When in reality it just adds MORE evidence to the point that pay in MMA is dogshit? Excluding Alex Pereira and Ronda Rousey - can you name me any professional mixed martial artists that are making $300k in only 13 pro fights? I'm still waiting for you to name me one single mixed martial artist on a UFC undercard that has made 300k or more.

Arnold Barboza Jr, the WBO Intercontinental junior welterweight champion, was who I was talking about. While I won't delve into your seeming belief in your authority of arbitration on who is a real champion "my guy", I will address your other point, zoomer. "Let me cook" as you probably say.

I'm not "dodging" your point because it is formulated as a hypothetical strawman fallacy comparing only the name recognition of Ngannou vs George Kambosos in the average sports fan households and alluding that it is conclusive evidence of what was specifically stated "No name boxers getting 20x the money Francis was offered." The way you structure your argument is the way every Logic 101 student does before they graduate to Phil 102, so let's use the Socratic method and address the actual claim you made instead of the run around talk that includes you speaking to an imaginary sports fan who "knows that big scary African fucker".

Francis was offered $8 million for the Jon Jones fight alone (Frank's own words). Let's say he was offered only $8 million for the total contract of 4-5 fights.
Which "no-name" boxer, again the ones you have listed who have literally headlined PPVs in the last few days like Lomanchenko, nor the likes of Devin Haney or Caleb Plant are "no-name boxers" are being offered $160 million for a fight?
Let's scratch that, how many boxers in general are getting offered purses like that?
Let's recall the top 5 boxing purses ever paid out

5. Floyd Mayweather (vs. Canelo Alvarez)
Reported Payout: $80 Million

4. Conor McGregor (vs. Floyd Mayweather)
Reported Payout: $130 Million

3. Manny Pacquiao (vs. Floyd Mayweather)
Reported Payout: $150 Million

2. Floyd Mayweather (vs. Manny Pacquiao)
Reported Payout: $250 Million

1. Floyd Mayweather (vs. Conor McGregor)
Reported Payout: $280 Million

Unless you're dishonestly trying to argue that Francis was "offered" $600,000, which he was not, that was his old pre-champion contract that he fought all the way out with the Gane fight, there isn't a single fucking boxer not named Floyd Mayweather that's getting paid 20x what Francis was offered by the UFC.

Not many people on this forum will argue against fighters being paid more. Everyone wants people they feel some emotional connection to, yes even only in a parasocial sense such a fans of athletes, to do well.
I am one of those people.
However, I am not one of those people that thinks just because you are a pugilist, you automatically deserve hundreds of millions of dollars per bout. They deserve a wage they can live comfortably on, health benefits, and a retirement pension, just like I think any person living in this country deserves.
I don't find the idea of deifying athletes with more money in a single fight than a pediatric heart surgeon will make in a hundred life times to be pertinent to the health of the sport, as boxing has repeatedly shown us over the last few decades with stagnant divisions, rank squatting, fight ducking, etc. This is beginning to bleed into MMA and has been since Conor McGregor's invention of the "red panty night".

Does the UFC pay less than it should?
Yes, especially with the percentage of revenue they are taking in, the athletes in the UFC are underpaid. The UFC isn't just as the bald goof says "an opportunity", it is a job as the star contractor in a corporation that makes billions. Their opportunity in the company is their version of the upward mobility expected in any company, especially ones that are paid on commission (any sherdoggers having worked for commission will understand what I mean), so I do agree with most people that fighters should have the basics that an employee of any other company gets: a living wage, insurance and other long term benefits, and a retirement.
The UFC currently doesn't even pay some fighters a wage they can live on, as many have second jobs. That is an issue that must be remediated, and one of the only ways to do that is through a large class action lawsuit (too bad Cung Le and co took the payout instead of sticking to their moral guns as they claimed they would) or the creation of a fighters union (see previous statement about Cung Le and co). No fighter should have to have a second job out of necessity (someones like Al Iaquinta doesn't count). The UFC should pay more on average.

There should be a long term healthcare plan for them as well. This isn't only a problem of the UFC's fault, currently there isn't a single insurance provider that will cover the UFC as an organization. When you think about it, the reasons are obvious, with possibly thousands to tens of thousands of claims a year. This is an issue I do not see a resolution for, as the premiums the UFC would pay would be truly astronomical.
Some people like to point to the NFL's healthcare, which on the surface seems like the perfect solution, until you hear from the players later that got through the fine print and realized that their benefits only lasted for 5 years after retirement, while afterwards to keep the same or similar coverage they were receiving, they were expected to pay upwards of $35,000 a year for coverage, a conversation that was had after Damar Hamlin's heart attack on the field not too long ago, where if the NFL chose to go with their usual contracts, they would leave the Hamlin family with about $900k total (that's exactly what the NFL did) while the Hamlin famiily had to set up a GoFundme for their son.

Unfortunately, with the further corporatization of the UFC, and many of its earning being directly used to pay off TKO's other debts, a general increase in fighters QOL will not happen without a direct, concentrated, and organized effort by the fighters themselves. Look at boxers. They have a union. Joint Association of Boxers, JAB. Everything they ask for is everything any of us could want for MMA fighters.
What is the last thing you heard JAB doing for fucking boxers? Fuck all.


To close out and to answer your final question, Andrei Arlovski often fights on the undercard and makes at least $300k per fight as of 2020 at least, not just PPV undercards but Fight Night undercards. He just fought on the prelim of UFC on ESPN: Kara-France vs. Albazi, on the prelim of UFC Fight Night: Kattar vs. Allen, and the prelim of his last PPV event, UFC 271.

 

[StonedLemur]

What did the contract say, where can I read it?

Ngannou said it on Rogans podcast I believe it was.

 

[blackheart]

Arnold Barboza Jr, the WBO Intercontinental junior welterweight champion, was who I was talking about. While I won't delve into your seeming belief in your authority of arbitration on who is a real champion "my guy", I will address your other point, zoomer. "Let me cook" as you probably say.

I'm 32 buddy. Anyway - again Barboza was not a world champion.

I'm not "dodging" your point because it is formulated as a hypothetical strawman fallacy comparing only the name recognition of Ngannou vs George Kambosos in the average sports fan households and alluding that it is conclusive evidence of what was specifically stated "No name boxers getting 20x the money Francis was offered." The way you structure your argument is the way every Logic 101 student does before they graduate to Phil 102, so let's use the Socratic method and address the actual claim you made instead of the run around talk that includes you speaking to an imaginary sports fan who "knows that big scary African fucker".

"Hypothetical strawman fallacy"??? Huh?? How can I strawman my OWN position? A completely incoherent sentence. Unless you're just trying to troll.

Francis was offered $8 million for the Jon Jones fight alone (Frank's own words). Let's say he was offered only $8 million for the total contract of 4-5 fights.
Which "no-name" boxer, again the ones you have listed who have literally headlined PPVs in the last few days like Lomanchenko, nor the likes of Devin Haney or Caleb Plant are "no-name boxers" are being offered $160 million for a fight?
Let's scratch that, how many boxers in general are getting offered purses like that?
Let's recall the top 5 boxing purses ever paid out

5. Floyd Mayweather (vs. Canelo Alvarez)
Reported Payout: $80 Million

4. Conor McGregor (vs. Floyd Mayweather)
Reported Payout: $130 Million

3. Manny Pacquiao (vs. Floyd Mayweather)
Reported Payout: $150 Million

2. Floyd Mayweather (vs. Manny Pacquiao)
Reported Payout: $250 Million

1. Floyd Mayweather (vs. Conor McGregor)
Reported Payout: $280 Million

Unless you're dishonestly trying to argue that Francis was "offered" $600,000, which he was not, that was his old pre-champion contract that he fought all the way out with the Gane fight, there isn't a single fucking boxer not named Floyd Mayweather that's getting paid 20x what Francis was offered by the UFC.

Paid vs offered are two entirely different things. The reality is that the UFC was paying their heavyweight champion pennies compared to the revenue he brought in. He was paid 600k to dethrone Stipe. Meanwhile, undercard non-world champion no-name boxers like Arnold Barboza Jr. are getting fight purses in his same range. That is fucking criminal.

Also dude, you took the "20x" statement WAY too literal. It was meant to be exaggerated hyperbole. 10x would probably be closer to the reality.

In his last UFC fight, the UFC again paid Francis 600k. Meanwhile, Kambosos was paid 5 million to fight Lomachenko. Kambosos was paid 8.3x what Francis was paid in his final UFC fight, despite Francis being many, many, many times more famous than George is.



Again, this is fucking criminal. In his first boxing match, Francis was paid 10 million. That's 16.6x what he got in his final UFC fight.

You can't just stand on the hill of what was reportedly offered to Francis. The reality that actually came into existence, is that Francis' biggest ever fight purse from the UFC was 600k. They were paying their heavyweight champion of the world six fucking figures! And they pay all of their champions like that. Francis wasn't a one-off anomaly. All of the UFC champs get paid like that. Yes, at least champions get PPV points to make up for it, but we don't know the details of how that works in the UFC and I'm willing to bet the PPV revenue split is dogshit compared to what top boxers get.

In the case of Demetrious Johnson, arguably the best fucking MMA fighter of all time, they wouldn't even give him PPV points!!! Criminal, criminal, criminal, disgusting criminal scumfuck behavior dude. Imagine becoming a world champion fighter, having an all-time record setting run that gets the fight world talking about you as the possible greatest ever, and you don't even get PPV points and they pay you a $350k fight purse I don't even know how DJ keeps such a positive and healthy mindset about his UFC tenure and in general. I would be so god damn jaded and hateful for the world if I went through what DJ did.

Not many people on this forum will argue against fighters being paid more.

Actually, a TON of people on this forum do argue against it.

Everyone wants people they feel some emotional connection to, yes even only in a parasocial sense such a fans of athletes, to do well.
I am one of those people.
However, I am not one of those people that thinks just because you are a pugilist, you automatically deserve hundreds of millions of dollars per bout. They deserve a wage they can live comfortably on, health benefits, and a retirement pension, just like I think any person living in this country deserves.
I don't find the idea of deifying athletes with more money in a single fight than a pediatric heart surgeon will make in a hundred life times to be pertinent to the health of the sport, as boxing has repeatedly shown us over the last few decades with stagnant divisions, rank squatting, fight ducking, etc. This is beginning to bleed into MMA and has been since Conor McGregor's invention of the "red panty night".

Does the UFC pay less than it should?
Yes, especially with the percentage of revenue they are taking in, the athletes in the UFC are underpaid. The UFC isn't just as the bald goof says "an opportunity", it is a job as the star contractor in a corporation that makes billions. Their opportunity in the company is their version of the upward mobility expected in any company, especially ones that are paid on commission (any sherdoggers having worked for commission will understand what I mean), so I do agree with most people that fighters should have the basics that an employee of any other company gets: a living wage, insurance and other long term benefits, and a retirement.
The UFC currently doesn't even pay some fighters a wage they can live on, as many have second jobs. That is an issue that must be remediated, and one of the only ways to do that is through a large class action lawsuit (too bad Cung Le and co took the payout instead of sticking to their moral guns as they claimed they would) or the creation of a fighters union (see previous statement about Cung Le and co). No fighter should have to have a second job out of necessity (someones like Al Iaquinta doesn't count). The UFC should pay more on average.

There should be a long term healthcare plan for them as well. This isn't only a problem of the UFC's fault, currently there isn't a single insurance provider that will cover the UFC as an organization. When you think about it, the reasons are obvious, with possibly thousands to tens of thousands of claims a year. This is an issue I do not see a resolution for, as the premiums the UFC would pay would be truly astronomical.
Some people like to point to the NFL's healthcare, which on the surface seems like the perfect solution, until you hear from the players later that got through the fine print and realized that their benefits only lasted for 5 years after retirement, while afterwards to keep the same or similar coverage they were receiving, they were expected to pay upwards of $35,000 a year for coverage, a conversation that was had after Damar Hamlin's heart attack on the field not too long ago, where if the NFL chose to go with their usual contracts, they would leave the Hamlin family with about $900k total (that's exactly what the NFL did) while the Hamlin famiily had to set up a GoFundme for their son.

Unfortunately, with the further corporatization of the UFC, and many of its earning being directly used to pay off TKO's other debts, a general increase in fighters QOL will not happen without a direct, concentrated, and organized effort by the fighters themselves. Look at boxers. They have a union. Joint Association of Boxers, JAB. Everything they ask for is everything any of us could want for MMA fighters.
What is the last thing you heard JAB doing for fucking boxers? Fuck all.
View attachment 1043669

Great, then we're 100% in agreement on all of this stuff. If you recognize the greed of the UFC, and you recognize that they're underpaying their fighters, then why are you going to bat for them in this thread? That's where this whole exchange started - with me replying to you going to bat for the UFC over fighter pay.

To close out and to answer your final question, Andrei Arlovski often fights on the undercard and makes at least $300k per fight as of 2020 at least, not just PPV undercards but Fight Night undercards. He just fought on the prelim of UFC on ESPN: Kara-France vs. Albazi, on the prelim of UFC Fight Night: Kattar vs. Allen, and the prelim of his last PPV event, UFC 271.

Sweet, you were able to find at least one example to answer my question - a fading former heavyweight world champion with decades at the top of the sport, is getting paid what literal no-name undercard boxers are getting paid. Meanwhile in boxing, fading former heavyweight world champions still get paid millions of dollars.

We've all seen and/or heard about the numbers re: the revenue split in boxing and the UFC. It isn't even arguable that boxing pays fighters much more of the revenue that they generate.