Found two articles about why Fedor was declining in 2009/2008

[kflo]

Haha looks like i started myself. I edited my post. But Fedor was always an oppurtunist when it came to takedowns. He'd take it if the chance presented itself. A big guy like Rogers you want to think about it cos its probably alot easier to beat him on the ground,but the guy did the right thing to do to reverse the Kimura,and was big enough to get it done. It was similar to when Hunt escaped the armbar. Fedor was doin the stuff he normally does,but it started to not come as easy. The Hunt fight was in PRIDE,so those people who want to allude PEDS as the culprit.well he had been having hand problems forever.

I remember feeling this way when Nogueira failed to submit Randy and Mir. Usually that should have been the end of the fight,those attempts...but they werent anymore.

Agreed. He was an opportunist and he remained one. He didn’t make any obvious strategic change. That’s my point. The headhunter claims aren’t fully accurate. He didn’t lose any of those fights because he was just strategically a headhunter.

 

[TrueTemper]

Nevermind the fact that sub hunting was never Fedor's game, Maia and Werdum are arguably the 2 best grapplers p4p in MMA history. I'll forgive Fedor if he falls short of that level


Or it had everything to do with the fact that Bigfoot -- a legit black belt -- had at least 70 lbs size advantage on Fedor lol. Fedor won the 1st round then got taken down at the very beginning of the 2nd and the size disparity became overwhelming as Bigfoot's top control was just immovable. The fact that Bigfoot had mount for virtually the entire round and still couldn't finish Fedor via tap or knockout speaks to Fedor's defensive skills on the ground if anything because Bigfoot was aggressively looking for a finish the entire time

And literally everything had to do with Fedor's hands at that point in his career. Bigfoot ate some heavy shots in that 1st round, and while the TRT and HGH certainly helped his chin, the fact that he was being punched with glass hands underlies everything that happened in that fight. We can never know how that fight would've played out had Fedor's hands not been rendered so brittle from years of smashing them against the flesh and bone of better opponents than Bigfoot

Ah yes, the "legit black belt" Bigfoot who couldn't last a minute with Cain on the ground, twice.

Fedor's hands were busted because his punching technique was garbage; there are plenty of elite MMA fighters and boxers who amassed HOF resumes after their hands deteroriated. What a desperate excuse for Fedor getting abused 3 times in a row (once by a MIDDLEWEIGHT lmfaooooo)

 

[seanb1979]

Igor broke his hands a lot too and their punching styles were very similar.

 

[HHJ]

Agreed. He was an opportunist and he remained one. He didn’t make any obvious strategic change. That’s my point. The headhunter claims aren’t fully accurate. He didn’t lose any of those fights because he was just strategically a headhunter.

Indeed.

 

[HHJ]

Igor broke his hands a lot too and their punching styles were very similar.

That ridgehand casting shit is murder on the hand bones (but also opponents face bones)

 

[Fight Professor]

Those accounts sound accurate but after Arlovski, Fedor’s coach got drunk at the afterparty and spewed that he didn’t really train and won by “using old tricks”. That’s at least when I knew he was starting to slip.

Also, I don’t think it helped when Fedor became super religious during that period and had that priest with him everywhere he went. Fedor was often quoted as saying his fights were “in God’s hands” and really started backing taking less responsibility.

Fedor also left his first wife and married the second one. Then he remarried her a few years later. He got religious with the second wife.

 

[HHJ]

Fedor also left his first wife and married the second one. Then he remarried her a few years later. He got religious with the second wife.

Yeah man i was def not happy when Fedor went all religious. A sudden rapid shift like that cant be good for prioritizing the death fighting.

its kinda beautiful he ended back with his first love.

 

[Coconutwater]

Boxer Manny Pacquiao had 10x the celebrity, lost big fights but was able to change his game a little and continue.

I think it’s a combination of just age, competition having more intel on his game and of course, some of it is attributable to more media obligations.

 

[thobra]

I have always thought it was because of his hand injuries. Hard to grapple without a grip. Still can punch though.

Injuries probably made it more difficult to train. Combined with less hunger to be the best

Yes, probably a big part of of it. He seemed to struggle with his hands for a long time of his career. I just feel that it must be more...

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Haha looks like i started myself. I edited my post. But Fedor was always an oppurtunist when it came to takedowns. He'd take it if the chance presented itself. A big guy like Rogers you want to think about it cos its probably alot easier to beat him on the ground,but the guy did the right thing to do to reverse the Kimura,and was big enough to get it done. It was similar to when Hunt escaped the armbar. Fedor was doin the stuff he normally does,but it started to not come as easy. The Hunt fight was in PRIDE,so those people who want to allude PEDS as the culprit.well he had been having hand problems forever.

I remember feeling this way when Nogueira failed to submit Randy and Mir. Usually that should have been the end of the fight,those attempts...but they werent anymore.

I don't think there was too much wrong with the armbar against Hunt personally, if Fedor had really cranked it Mir style I suspect Hunt would have tapped. Plus of course Hunt's grappling has always been flaky, he's capable of exellent defence one moment and giving away easy openings another. Losing position going for a kimura against Rogers and Bigfoot was I think much worse than losing it going for an armbar plus Hunt's own kimura atempts werent really threatening, Fedor was basically waiting for Mark to create distance tended to crank the sub and then escaped in a similar fashion as soon as he did.

I would say as well alot of the kinds of examples that come up in these threads ignore the opponent, so yes Fedor was headhunting against Zulu but that was Zulu, he wasnt head hunting against Crocop and Nog. Likewise against people like Hunt and Coleman Fedor took grappling risks because he knew he had them outgunned greatly.

Aggressive sub grappling generally though is I think one of if not the most physically demanding aspect of MMA, alot of Nogs subs depended on hitting them quickly during a transition and the same with his grappling generally. The two Werdum fights he does exactly the same escape atempt in both, hits it in 2006 but in 2014 he's not fast enough and Werdum ends up in the position to armbar him.

 

[HHJ]

I would say as well alot of the kinds of examples that come up in these threads ignore the opponent, so yes Fedor was headhunting against Zulu but that was Zulu, he wasnt head hunting against Crocop and Nog. Likewise against people like Hunt and Coleman Fedor took grappling risks because he knew he had them outgunned greatly.
.

True, like when he gave his back against Coleman after getting mounted,because he baits the choke,which he feels confident to defend,instead of GNP while on his back,which is very dangerous

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

Same thing happened to Ronda. She started doing too much media and then lost.

Ronda was exactly the same.
She came in knowing judo, and won via judo.
edmund told her she can box world champion boxers easily, when he doesnt really teach her anything.
and that's what she did in the holme fight.
And she was retarded to blieve him again and only strike in the next fight.

if ronda started out in ATT or AKA she would have stayed champ forever.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Ronda was exactly the same.
She came in knowing judo, and won via judo.
edmund told her she can box world champion boxers easily, when he doesnt really teach her anything.
and that's what she did in the holme fight.
And she was retarded to blieve him again and only strike in the next fight.

if ronda started out in ATT or AKA she would have stayed champ forever.

I think she did shift in style a bit personally, under Edmond I think you can see she shifts from using striking as cover to look for the clinch to actually looking for finishes.

It made sense at first vs people like McMann and Bethe who had very limited striking, basically a good counter to grapplers. She seemed like she bought into the hype that she'd become a great striker though and carried on doing it against Holm and Nunes, you don't throw a punch like this as cover for trying for the clinch.

Grappling wise she was always pretty pure Judo I'd agree, fighting in the kind of way Fedor did VERY early in his career as say vs Arona.

 

[HHJ]

Ronda was exactly the same.
She came in knowing judo, and won via judo.
edmund told her she can box world champion boxers easily, when he doesnt really teach her anything.
and that's what she did in the holme fight.
And she was retarded to blieve him again and only strike in the next fight.

if ronda started out in ATT or AKA she would have stayed champ forever.

I have the utmost respect for Ronda,but their situations are not the same,at all.

Fedor was a seasoned veteran at MMA and many of its styles therein long before he held a world championship. He did not need anyone to offer any delusions to him to get to where he was. We are talking about a self motivated individual. He did not need a camp like ATT or AKA,because his unorthodox approach and general fearlesness is what got him everything. So what he lost after 30 fights?? Thats already a hall of fame GOAT career ! It doesnt need to be better,cos its already tremendous.

If his motivation waned,and his techniques eroded,oh well,that happens with every great fighter,thats just called being human.

Ronda on the other hand came pre equipped with her Judo habits, and skills and with that alone,she found everything to be easy once she got a hold of these girls. All (in his mind) Edmund really had to do was to keep her confident...and that worked. She had maybe a 5 year undefeated run?

I think that Ronda's career,like Conor's and Brocks and even Couture's are extraordinary circumstances. Who can say what would really have been the best thing to do. If he started bringing in world class boxers and have them beat the shit out of her,her confidence would be all gone,just like it was when she fought Nunes. It was probably the exact situation with Brock.
Her rise was so fast and astronimical,its easy to see how she could get caught up in her own hype. So would you.

Fedor,on the other hand its a completley different situation. He came into MMA like most fighters do,but used unorthodox training methods,gameplans and blueprints to get to the top. The part where he had trouble was at the end. He was on top SO LONG its really hard to change,or adapt to the eroding skills and the younger fighters coming in. Fedor did do alot of media in Asia,but I really couldnt say how much it affected him. If he was less motivated to fight and train after 10 yrs on top,how can you blame him? The difference is Fedor already cemented his legacy and got all his shit done before he got complacent. He vanquished his 2 biggest rivals,held alot of the best championship of his era. In a HW Tourney,HE was the one who came out on top. So he didnt need to do ANYTHING different. Its amazing just how it was.

 

[HHJ]

No he wasnt I'd agree but after the Crocop win I suspect he saw a serious upturn and then when he signed with M-1 even more of an upturn which was largely garanted.


I think you see a general trend towards more focus on striking over grappling as soon as he left RTT for Red Devil and maybe you could argue it made sense to move more in that direction vs Sylvia and Arlovski who were vulnerable to early aggression. Really though I suspect the big issue is that training a rounded game including more tactical standup was much more difficult than training for fast KOs, depending more in his basic gifts.

I mean I'm sure he had personal pride in his performances but to the degree of someone like say Nog? that he was willing to step away from the sport fro over 3 years whilst on a winning run I think suggests not. Nogs decline I think you can put almost entirely down to the physical side, Fedor's is more of a mix of that and motivation, when he started to lose he wasn't as quick and powerful as his peak but he wasnt "shot" either.

Theres that quote from him along the lines of "I remember being poor, when I see the man across the ring from me I think he's trying to send me back to that life and must be eliminated".

There were some moments in that fight where Fedor seemed not himself against arlovski. I remember Arlovski tried to trip him and Fedor defended. I felt like Fedor of old would have thrown him for trying that. I thought Arlo (a combat sambo practitioner himself) was suicidal to try to trip Fedor. But fedor defended and didnt do anything with it IIRC. There was also a moment where he really slowly got to Arlo near the ropes. It seemed awkward (as fights can sometimes be)

But at the same time he showed very good head movement against Arlvoskis very fast punches,and of course the final punch was pure sexual violence.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

There were some moments in that fight where Fedor seemed not himself against arlovski. I remember Arlovski tried to trip him and Fedor defended. I felt like Fedor of old would have thrown him for trying that. I thought Arlo (a combat sambo practitioner himself) was suicidal to try to trip Fedor. But fedor defended and didnt do anything with it IIRC. There was also a moment where he really slowly got to Arlo near the ropes. It seemed awkward (as fights can sometimes be)

But at the same time he showed very good head movement against Arlvoskis very fast punches,and of course the final punch was pure sexual violence.

Hi standup definately dropped off less than his grappling, became more one dimensional but he did still have excellent head movement and could time his big shots well at that point. I mean against Brett Rogers as well he really only took one(well thrown) jab, besides that Brett didnt land anything on him and took several big shots before the KO.

Bigfoot was the first time I felt his standup was showing serious weakness, planting his feet a lot more throwing those left/right hooks against a fresh opponent and getting caught down the pipe with a big straight.

Cue someone posting a gif of the Goodridge fight but in that match he rocks Gary with that looping punch right away, its a hurt opponent covering up against the ropes not a live opponent.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I have the utmost respect for Ronda,but their situations are not the same,at all.

Fedor was a seasoned veteran at MMA and many of its styles therein long before he held a world championship. He did not need anyone to offer any delusions to him to get to where he was. We are talking about a self motivated individual. He did not need a camp like ATT or AKA,because his unorthodox approach and general fearlesness is what got him everything. So what he lost after 30 fights?? Thats already a hall of fame GOAT career ! It doesnt need to be better,cos its already tremendous.

If his motivation waned,and his techniques eroded,oh well,that happens with every great fighter,thats just called being human.

Ronda on the other hand came pre equipped with her Judo habits, and skills and with that alone,she found everything to be easy once she got a hold of these girls. All (in his mind) Edmund really had to do was to keep her confident...and that worked. She had maybe a 5 year undefeated run?

I think that Ronda's career,like Conor's and Brocks and even Couture's are extraordinary circumstances. Who can say what would really have been the best thing to do. If he started bringing in world class boxers and have them beat the shit out of her,her confidence would be all gone,just like it was when she fought Nunes. It was probably the exact situation with Brock.
Her rise was so fast and astronimical,its easy to see how she could get caught up in her own hype. So would you.

Fedor,on the other hand its a completley different situation. He came into MMA like most fighters do,but used unorthodox training methods,gameplans and blueprints to get to the top. The part where he had trouble was at the end. He was on top SO LONG its really hard to change,or adapt to the eroding skills and the younger fighters coming in. Fedor did do alot of media in Asia,but I really couldnt say how much it affected him. If he was less motivated to fight and train after 10 yrs on top,how can you blame him? The difference is Fedor already cemented his legacy and got all his shit done before he got complacent. He vanquished his 2 biggest rivals,held alot of the best championship of his era. In a HW Tourney,HE was the one who came out on top. So he didnt need to do ANYTHING different. Its amazing just how it was.

Part of it is probably natural ability, Fedor did have strong natural ability in terms of striking were as Rousey didnt seem to.

Alot as well though I think is the level of comp, Rousey was fighting opponents were sloppy brawling with limited defence worked standing and grappling wise opponents were pure judo got the job done.

I think you see more of a pure Judo/Sambo Fedor vs Arona, the way he goes for subs without considering longer term positional control. By the time of Babalu the following year he's moved away from that towards valuing positional control alot more.

Rousey had a few warning signs ending up in dangerous positions via being too aggressive on the ground but not enough to really get her to change how she fought. You could argue that caught up with her going for that arm too fast vs Holm when she did get her down.

 

[HHJ]

Hi standup definately dropped off less than his grappling, became more one dimensional but he did still have excellent head movement and could time his big shots well at that point. I mean against Brett Rogers as well he really only took one(well thrown) jab, besides that Brett didnt land anything on him and took several big shots before the KO.

Bigfoot was the first time I felt his standup was showing serious weakness, planting his feet a lot more throwing those left/right hooks against a fresh opponent and getting caught down the pipe with a big straight.

Cue someone posting a gif of the Goodridge fight but in that match he rocks Gary with that looping punch right away, its a hurt opponent covering up against the ropes not a live opponent.

Fedor was just good at sensing when he could just obliterate guys at the bell. Just physically dominate. His forward pressure panicked them into reacting,and he was fast enough to exploit. But when he swung a looping shot on Bigfoot and bigfoot just ducked under for the takedown,i was like fuck. I never seen anyone do that to him before.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Fedor was just good at sensing when he could just obliterate guys at the bell. Just physically dominate. His forward pressure panicked them into reacting,and he was fast enough to exploit. But when he swung a looping shot on Bigfoot and bigfoot just ducked under for the takedown,i was like fuck. I never seen anyone do that to him before.

The Bigfoot takedown was due to planting his feet a lot more than you saw previously IMHO.

 

[HHJ]

The Bigfoot takedown was due to planting his feet a lot more than you saw previously IMHO.

Even when coleman tried that (and eventually got it) It was not nearly as easy as it was there. Fedor was lighter on his feet yes.