Forum preservation thread

jtwarwagon4life said:
Well then how did guys like Yodsanklai and Saenchai ever get famous in the first place? It wasn't because of their stadium runs that people wanted to watch them in Slamm and The Contender.
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And it wasn't because of their stadium runs that most people in Thaiand know who they are either.
 
DastardlyMass said:
going to muaythai2000.com instead of glorykickboxing.com or liverkick to find the fight card is not more investment
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muaythai2000.com takes me to a page with only a video of people singing. Is that the right URL or is it just my phone?
 
DastardlyMass said:
samart also states in that video he has no clue what the scoring criteria is or how to tell his fighters to fight so he is not a great source of info on the topic
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And you think it's normal that such a legend of the sport doesn't understand the new scoring criteria which is massively influenced by the betting?

I'm sure Micheal Jordan still understands basketball, just like Zidane still understands football, Ernesto Hoost still understand kickboxing, and so on...
 
DastardlyMass said:
samart also states in that video he has no clue what the scoring criteria is or how to tell his fighters to fight so he is not a great source of info on the topic
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he is a perfect source to explain what has happened to the sport and he is bang on the money as well, a 4 times Lumpini champion and former boxer of the year, but you think he's not a great source of info? It isn't just him saying this either its hundreds of gym owners, press guys, trainers, people that have been around the sport for decades and know more about it than anyone here including myself. If I had a pound for everytime I've heard someone say I don't know how to score fights anymore, because the decision has gone the way the gamblers have the odds set rather than the actual action in the ring and I'm talking owners of gyms/trainers that have produced multiple champions, I would have enough money to buy a new car :P
 
Looks like Samart didn't know how to score this fight... I'm sure DastardlyMass could teach Samart how to score fights?
 
anorak said:
he is a perfect source to explain what has happened to the sport and he is bang on the money as well, a 4 times Lumpini champion and former boxer of the year, but you think he's not a great source of info? It isn't just him saying this either its hundreds of gym owners, press guys, trainers, people that have been around the sport for decades and know more about it than anyone here including myself. If I had a pound for everytime I've heard someone say I don't know how to score fights anymore, because the decision has gone the way the gamblers have the odds set rather than the actual action in the ring and I'm talking owners of gyms/trainers that have produced multiple champions, I would have enough money to buy a new car :p
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Have the belt and ranking system always been the way that they are? It feels like the belts are somewhat arbitrary.
 
anorak said:
he is a perfect source to explain what has happened to the sport and he is bang on the money as well, a 4 times Lumpini champion and former boxer of the year, but you think he's not a great source of info? It isn't just him saying this either its hundreds of gym owners, press guys, trainers, people that have been around the sport for decades and know more about it than anyone here including myself. If I had a pound for everytime I've heard someone say I don't know how to score fights anymore, because the decision has gone the way the gamblers have the odds set rather than the actual action in the ring and I'm talking owners of gyms/trainers that have produced multiple champions, I would have enough money to buy a new car :p
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It is obvious the scoring is not the same from when samart fought. That is not what i was talking about. It was more that all you have to do to find out who is winning is follow the odds or the gamblers but he acts like that is not the case. Sure there are some head scratchers here and there but for the most part even people on here that can't speak a lick of thai can figure out who won after watching for a while.

It also brings up the question of why would a gym ever tell their fighter to stop fighting to preserve the points lead if they had no clue if they are winning or not?
 
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DastardlyMass said:
It is obvious the scoring is not the same from when samart fought. That is not what i was talking about. It was more that all you have to do to find out who is winning is follow the odds or the gamblers but he acts like that is not the case. Sure there are some head scratchers here and there but for the most part even people on here that can't speak a lick of thai can figure out who won after watching for a while.

It also brings up the question of why would a gym ever tell their fighter to stop fighting to preserve the points lead if they had no clue if they are winning or not?
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Are you suggesting that following gambling odds is the same as understanding how judges score a fight? Seems like you're missing Samarts point...
 
Kanka said:
Are you suggesting that following gambling odds is the same as understanding how judges score a fight? Seems like you're missing Samarts point...
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can you not realize the gamblers control the judges and how the fight is scored?

And btw that somrak fight you posted was special rules where somrak could not kick,lift his leg to check kicks or knee so i doubt anyone knew how to score that bout
 
DastardlyMass said:
can you not realize the gamblers control the judges and how the fight is scored?
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So how can he know the scoring criteria if he can't read the oddsmakers mind? The gamblers influence on scoring is what he is complaining about... Even if he did, doesn't change the fact that it's difficult to understand for your average guy

I know it was a special rules thing but i'm pretty sure most fighters thought Somrak should have won.
 
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Kanka said:
So how can he know the scoring criteria if he can't read the oddsmakers mind? The gamblers influence on scoring is what he is complaining about... Even if he did, doesn't change the fact that it's difficult to understand for your average guy

I know it was a special rules thing but i'm pretty sure most fighters thought Somrak should have won.
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I understand he is complaining about how his sport has changed but that has nothing to do with anything i have said.

My thing is he can go ask the main gamblers instead of the who ever they would consult back when he fought about how and why they change the odds and thus how the fight is scored. Like i said earlier it is obvious the scoring has changed but he is acting like it is all just mysterious when there are even gamblers exchanging cash sometimes before an official decision is announced
 
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Tayski said:
And you find that good for the sport?
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not in the least but that is just how it is now and trying to deny it is just foolish

This is not about what is good for the sport or not. It is just about living in reality and realizing what muaythai is today not trying to make it be what it was in the 80's. Neither are most other sports with all the rule changes thru out the years like basketball adding a 3 point line or all the changes in american football to increase scoring.
 
DastardlyMass said:
not in the least but that is just how it is now and trying to deny it is just foolish

This is not about what is good for the sport or not. It is just about living in reality and realizing what muaythai is today not trying to make it be what it was in the 80's.
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Funny coming from a guy who has been slagging off glory from the very start because it's not like the old k-1 days and because they don't promote or manage the way you'd want them to.
 
DastardlyMass said:
not in the least but that is just how it is now and trying to deny it is just foolish

This is not about what is good for the sport or not. It is just about living in reality and realizing what muaythai is today not trying to make it be what it was in the 80's. Neither are most other sports with all the rule changes thru out the years like basketball adding a 3 point line or all the changes in american football to increase scoring.
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how much were the basketball players back in the 80's compared with today, how much were the American football players earning back then compared with today, was that the same as Muaythai with those sports earning about half today what they would have earnt back in 80's is the basketball and football stadiums about half as full nowadays? There are outcries every week with decisions and again its not just Samart complaining its a huge amount of people involved in the sport week in week out, you just had one of the main gyms and a stadium promoter announced a few weeks back, that they would not have their boxers fight with those from another gym, who's owner is also a stadium promoter, because of several dubious decisions fighting their boxers, with allegations that the judges were involved in colluding with said promoter to favor their boxers, you just had the head judge at Lumpini and the security that came to his aid shot dead, in this case another main gym owner and promoter was called in for questioning as again it had been stated that he had bought off several of the judges! Yet its all those thousands that have been driven away from the sport and thousands like Samart that are out of touch with reality lol
 
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DastardlyMass said:
It is obvious the scoring is not the same from when samart fought. That is not what i was talking about. It was more that all you have to do to find out who is winning is follow the odds or the gamblers but he acts like that is not the case. Sure there are some head scratchers here and there but for the most part even people on here that can't speak a lick of thai can figure out who won after watching for a while.
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hes not acting like thats not the case, but hes saying it is wrong, and there is a massive amount of people that agree with him. There are more than a few head scratchers every week as well
 
also you only have to look on Facebook on the Thai Muaythai pages and groups or the comments in Thai on the youtube vids day in day out to see hundreds and hundreds of comments the same, to realize their is something seriously wrong with the sport nowadays
 
anorak said:
hes not acting like thats not the case, but hes saying it is wrong, and there is a massive amount of people that agree with him. There are more than a few head scratchers every week as well
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Your right in the middle of it so you know much more than myself but it seems we are arguing different points. I do not think you would find many people that prefer todays muaythai over the past generations. Still with all the problems i personally believe it is by far the most constant scoring in combat sports. Your there watching live fights we do not get to see on video so you have much better refrence but from what i have seen even much more people in the crowd know who actually won a greater percentage of the time than any other combat sport.

How often do you see a gym tell their fighter to coast to the win and not get the decision? I can only remember a handful over the last few years but your there most of the time so I'm sure you have a much better idea how often that really happens
 
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