Law Florida to eliminate ALL vaccine mandates

[oldshadow]

Both Government and Doctors are supposed to be oath-takers to protect the citizenry. You know who doesn't take an oath? My flat-Earth neighbor who thinks supplements can prevent whooping cough

And people should not be told just take this and shut up you dont need to know anything about it.

Thats what people like you want and that is why most people fight it. You minimize the required and you educate people on the why and the risk and benefits. There should be meetings at schools with doctors and officials that educate parents and tell them everything including the risks and benefits. It should be honest and detailed.

The shut up and take this bullshit should not be tolerated.

 

[PhitePhan]

Now at least I have a better understanding of your passion. I had epilepsy from two broken noses that I had before I was 5. So I'm familiar with that as well. I understand that last part too. I think some of the issues that arise with allowing these outbreaks of some of the more serious ones that are not just a disruptive one like the measles is a cause for people's concern and passion. I think because strong adverse reaction causing long-term complications is not prevalent enough that it's paid very little attention which obviously in your case has resulted in injury. Again I don't mind research being done on how we administer, the time we administer, and how we spread these out. And yes even something like tetanus be removed just because it's not necessary. Because my background is in science you always have to push for new information if there is any so that you can cut off any potential issues without removing the benefit all together. Anyway good chat bud and I can see where your passion is coming from which helps me to understand your position better so I appreciate that

I appreciate your comments, it’s rare to have a cordial conversation on this topic.

It seems we might be closer to agreement than not, and I think if most people took a more nuanced look, they would fall closer to yours and my camp, and be open to some evidence-based adjustments.

 

[Cajun]

I appreciate your comments, it’s rare to have a cordial conversation on this topic.

It seems we might be closer to agreement than not, and I think if most people took a more nuanced look, they would fall closer to yours and my camp, and be open to some evidence-based adjustments.

Sure. When the autism issue came up, it spurred research to show that there was no correlation. Had it shown the opposite then we have a different conversation now. Thalidamide was found to cause birth defects after being on the market for 6 years. Good science should either solidify what we already know or advance changes for the better. I hope you have better conversations and keep an open mind yourself as vaccinations do prevent a lot of issues in our society. As I said there will never be a medicine that is 100% safe for everyone. It is the nature of Medicine. Overall benefit but there will always be outliers. I am sorry your child was one.
I'll give you one experience the other way that is also sad. I did cancer research for 14 years. When I worked for Merck we were constantly developing things some of which went to clinical trials. You would sometimes have an outlier that was incredibly effective with the treatment and sending the patient into remission. But because the benefit was not to enough of the population of individuals receiving it, it did not pass FDA approval. So in essence there was possibly a subset of people that could be helped but not enough to justify approving the drug.

 

[Sinister]

And people should not be told just take this and shut up you dont need to know anything about it.

Thats what people like you want and that is why most people fight it. You minimize the required and you educate people on the why and the risk and benefits. There should be meetings at schools with doctors and officials that educate parents and tell them everything including the risks and benefits. It should be honest and detailed.

The shut up and take this bullshit should not be tolerated.

No one was ever told that. People have always been free to ask Doctors questions, or look up information of their own. Always.

You're making up a problem that only exists in your head, and then arguing it to people who dont advocate that. Which is called straw-manning.

 

[Sinister]

It’s interesting to see you rant endlessly about systemic racism in the US only to turn around and defer bodily autonomy to those same systems.

False equivalencies gonna false equivalency.

You want me to rant about the systemic racism in MEDICINE? The notion that black people feel less pain than white people and sh*t? Because I can do that all day if you want. How minority children actually have LESS overall access to vaccines and how insurance coverage is spotty at times? How right this second the people bearing the brunt of maternal deaths in abortion ban States are black women?

Does that mean I think vaccine mandates should be rescinded? Absolutely not.

Come on, if you're gonna try to "gotcha" me do better than this.

 

[Cajun]

And people should not be told just take this and shut up you dont need to know anything about it.

Thats what people like you want and that is why most people fight it. You minimize the required and you educate people on the why and the risk and benefits. There should be meetings at schools with doctors and officials that educate parents and tell them everything including the risks and benefits. It should be honest and detailed.

The shut up and take this bullshit should not be tolerated.

Most people don't fight childhood vaccines bud. I think there are also some generational issues here. Our parents/grandparents living through the smallpox scare, polio and some of the other things that were removed by vaccines gave them a different perspective which they passed on to their kids. Now we're a few generations removed from some of the more serious or disruptive ones so there is little experience to draw on.

 

[PhitePhan]

False equivalencies gonna false equivalency.

You want me to rant about the systemic racism in MEDICINE? The notion that black people feel less pain than white people and sh*t? Because I can do that all day if you want. How minority children actually have LESS overall access to vaccines and how insurance coverage is spotty at times? How right this second the people bearing the brunt of maternal deaths in abortion ban States are black women?

Does that mean I think vaccine mandates should be rescinded? Absolutely not.

Come on, if you're gonna try to "gotcha" me do better than this.

Like I said, you are placing extraordinary power into the hands of people and systems that have historically (and ongoing) mistreated minorities and the less fortunate. You carving out an exception for vaccines doesn’t change this fact- and I have no idea why you’d be so confident to separate vaccination which has historically been developed and evaluated almost entirely by the racist systems you bemoan.

 

[syct23]

Most people don't fight childhood vaccines bud. I think there are some generational issues here. Our parents/grandparents living through the smallpox scare, polio and some of the other things that were removed by vaccines gave them a different perspective which they passed on to their kids. Now we're a few generations removed from some of the more serious or disruptive ones so there is little experience to draw on.

Would probably help if were to teach History in schools again..

 

[Cajun]

Would probably help if were to teach History in schools again..

No Doubt. But I think it's the difference in reading about war and going to war. If you came up through the era of smallpox it scared the hell out of the public. Coming out of some of those things they had a healthy respect for the power of vaccines through their experience.

 

[RoastBeast]

That’s not how herd immunity works. I’d certainly speak with my physician as to whether I should get a new measles vax or other vaxxes if I was going to travel there—but I prefer to just not travel there.

Ah yes, "herd immunity". The laughable logical fallacy that stopped covid dead in its tracks.

 

[Sinister]

Like I said, you are placing extraordinary power into the hands of people and systems that have historically (and ongoing) mistreated minorities and the less fortunate. You carving out an exception for vaccines doesn’t change this fact- and I have no idea why you’d be so confident to separate vaccination which has historically been developed and evaluated almost entirely by the racist systems you bemoan.

This is another logical fallacy. You're equating that the system is imperfect to the idea that this specific policy decision is correct. You're attempting an appeal to emotion and it's not going to work, like you can just use any apprehensions I may have to work against me. This is just a tactic to muddy the water because its avoiding the bigger issue. What does a system I'd prefer look like?

It looks like a citizenry that doesnt have a 51% 6th grade or below reading level, being able to comprehend the concept of public health and not carelessly endangering other people's kids as a badge or nobility against something theyve been convinced is oppression. Them being able to comprehend that public health policies are standard if you're going to use public services. It looks like universal access to quality healthcare, where medicine isnt solely driven by the profit motive. It looks like a population that achieves hard immunity because they're aware tha vaccines work, despite cases of injury whose percentages are FAR below that of freakin' aspirin. And it also looks like less lobbying power and more legal accountability for malicious practice of everyone.

This REQUIRES more and better regulation.

Now what does the landscape the Florida SG look like? Does it address the profit motive? Nope. Increase accountability? Nope. Grant better access to healthcare? Uh uh. Increase standard of public health in public institutions? Absolutely not. Decrease lobbying power of pharmaceutical companies? No way. Increase services for children who contract these diseases? Hells no, bootstraps baby. Your sick kid, your problem.

Yeah I'm good with my outlook on this. I'm not going to have to shrug off deaths of kids by diseases that havent spread widely in over 40 years. I'm confident I'd like to make things better because it's the logical thing to do, not making things worse as an emotional reaction which allows politicians to pour gas on that emotional fire to ignore economic despair and keep me voting for them despite their utter failures.

 

[ermac88]

If Herman Cain was still with us.

He would applaud such brilliance!

 

[Sinister]

Bye the way, I hope everyone also realizes that Republicans in Florida just got absolutely monkey-stomped in two Congressional races down there around the same time as this announcement rolled out. Those were races theh were going to lose anyway, but they lost them by a WAY bigger margin than they ever have. Keep your eyes on the bigger picture.

 

[Konquest]

It's a wild "butterfly effect" that a 19 year old coed from Chicago posing nude for Playboy in the mid 90's would directly set off a chain reaction of events leading to the inevitable death of schoolchildren in Florida in 2025...

 

[IDGETKTFO]

Why do you guys have to make this a left vs right issue? I know plenty of people on both sides that think anti vaxxers are morons. Myself included.

 

[Sinister]

Why do you guys have to make this a left vs right issue? I know plenty of people on both sides that think anti vaxxers are morons. Myself included.

Where are the loudest and most politically active anti-vaxxers? Or as you put it...morons?

 

[Scerpi]

Surely you can't support this one? Ridiculous

Why not? If you're fully vaccinated, what do you have to worry about?

Listen to the clowns saying they get the "jab" to prevent their elder family members from getting sick

It makes zero sense

- Are you family members vaxed? Yes? Then they should be fine whether you have it or not
- You get vaccinated anyway... Does it prevent you from getting sick? No... Then it doesn't matter to your elderly family member if your or they are vaccinated.
- Oh!! But doesn't it prevent your family member from getting Covid if you're vaxed and infected with Covid? No

Please make it make sense

And who gives a fuck if one more asshat declares "I'm never visiting Florida"

lol... Oh no!! Bfoe isn't go to travel to Florida? But what if he has to fly there for some horrible reason, like fleeing a Blue State. If he's vaccinated, he'll be able to wander among the unwashed and ignorant masses without a care in the world correct?

lol..

So many of these vaccines are unnecessary and a cash grab. Get them if you want.

Are there vaccines that essential? Especially to young children? I highly believe that.

But a full review needs to be done on what those are and the Government Issued Pass on Liability from Damaging Patients needs to be scrapped. Its stupid that there's 70+ vaxes on the schedule for kids. When there were 6 for us kids in the 1970's.

Guess what these pharma companies will do then? Thorough safety testing to ensure their jab isn't hurting patients.

And the Federal Government is horrible to reimbursing citizens who are severely injured by vaccines

 

[Beechwood]

Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines, and The Forgotten History​

Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines, and The Forgotten History: Humphries MD, Suzanne, Bystrianyk, Roman: 8601400548479: Amazon.com: Books

Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines, and The Forgotten History [Humphries MD, Suzanne, Bystrianyk, Roman] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines, and The Forgotten History

www.amazon.com

Not too long ago, lethal infections were feared in the Western world. Since that time, many countries have undergone a transformation from disease cesspools to much safer, healthier habitats. Starting in the mid-1800s, there was a steady drop in deaths from all infectious diseases, decreasing to relatively minor levels by the early 1900s. The history of that transformation involves famine, poverty, filth, lost cures, eugenicist doctrine, individual freedoms versus state might, protests and arrests over vaccine refusal, and much more.Today, we are told that medical interventions increased our lifespan and single-handedly prevented masses of deaths. But is this really true?Dissolving Illusions details facts and figures from long-overlooked medical journals, books, newspapers, and other sources. Using myth-shattering graphs, this book shows that vaccines, antibiotics, and other medical interventions are not responsible for the increase in lifespan and the decline in mortality from infectious diseases. If the medical profession could systematically misinterpret and ignore key historical information, the question must be asked, “What else is ignored and misinterpreted today?”Perhaps the best reason to know our history is so that the worst parts are never repeated.

 

[Barteh]

Why do you guys have to make this a left vs right issue? I know plenty of people on both sides that think anti vaxxers are morons. Myself included.

Team game politics is a cultural phenomenon to keep us divided. It probably derails 99% of the Sherdog discussions and also makes the vast majority of people support retarded stances because it's what their team says is right.

 

[IDGETKTFO]

Why not? If you're fully vaccinated, what do you have to worry about?

Since you ignored my last reply i will say it again. Women with newborn babies should be worried because they are too young to get vaccinated.