Opinion Florida Makes It Defamatory To Call Someone Transphobic, Racist or Sexist

[rearnakedchoke]

The party preaching less govt overreach enacting more laws. Classic.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Right but what else do you want to say about it? Even most of the conservatives replying itt (not all maybe, but most) agree the law is a bad idea. That it won't hold up, that even if we thought false accusations of bigotry WERE a problem...a law like this wouldn't be the way to deal with it.

The R's in FL are way out of bounds on this one. Not really sure what else needs to be said here, unless you've got another angle that you think needs to be covered?

Seems more like the other way around to me

To me, it's a more interesting discussion to speak of false accusations of bigotry in general and the societal implications. Even if it's relatively rare and not a serious problem in a macro sense. We agree a law like this is ridiculous, okay. But we live in times where accusations of bigotry are taken very seriously (as they should be) which leaves openings for people to do real damage to the reputations of others merely by sending a tweet or implying racism/sexism/homophobia/etc. Does someone who levels a false accusation face the same repercussions as someone who is found to actually be a bigot? Should they? These questions hold at least some interest for me. Maybe not for you, that's fine.

I disagree, the Florida GOP's descent into authoritarianism is a far more relevant discussion. This is all in the context of the wider culture war movement I was referring to in the other thread about the memoirs, its no coincidence that most of those book challenges are in Florida. Its about accumulating power to wield against their enemies and as a citizen of this great state its very worrying to me.

 

[mkess101]

Seems more like the other way around to me

I disagree, the Florida GOP's descent into authoritarianism is a far more relevant discussion. This is all in the context of the wider culture war movement I was referring to in the other thread about the memoirs, its no coincidence that most of those book challenges are in Florida. Its about accumulating power to wield against their enemies and as a citizen of this great state its very worrying to me.

Went back and read replies. I only see maybe 2-3 people outright in support of it. Way more either commented they don't like it or at worst didn't take a stand and sort of talked about the issue in general without supporting or condemning the actual law.

FL is one state. It's fine obviously for you to be concerned but this will be struck down so quickly it'll barely register as ever having been proposed. I get that you're trying to look at the wider picture in regards to how a certain subset of politicians govern...but this is a transparent ploy that will be easily forgotten.

 

[Poon Goon]

Went back and read replies. I only see maybe 2-3 people outright in support of it.

Are you purposely full of shit or do you actually have problems with reading/counting?

Only a non white or LGBT advocate would have a problem with this legislation.

Well said

Good.

People can lose their livelihood in todays social and political climate over accusations like these. Its embarrassing but considering our society today, I don't have issue with a law like this.

I support anything that puts power in the hands of normies. All this fake blm/troonworld shit needs to die

Need to add rapist to the list.

Well given that it has been overused to great damage the last years, that s a nice pendulum swing.

Good for Florida. Normally I would be against this but you have to fight fire with fire and this might give the liberal freaks a taste of their own medicine.

What a heaven, maybe the only place i would live in the west

If you have no proof, then yes it is defamatory.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Went back and read replies. I only see maybe 2-3 people outright in support of it. Way more either commented they don't like it or at worst didn't take a stand and sort of talked about the issue in general without supporting or condemning the actual law.

FL is one state. It's fine obviously for you to be concerned but this will be struck down so quickly it'll barely register as ever having been proposed. I get that you're trying to look at the wider picture in regards to how a certain subset of politicians govern...but this is a transparent ploy that will be easily forgotten.

Not just one state, one of the largest in the union in terms of population and the size of its economy and its also a trend setter. DeSantis is one of the most visible governors in the country and Trump basically operates out of Florida so it has a disproportionate effect on the GOP in general and in many ways portends the direction of the party. When you look at this law in context of the widespread Florida book challenges and the Parental Rights bill(i.e. the so called "Don't Say Gay" bill) which was about antagonizing educators and enforcing cultural compliance as well as the attacks on the Disney Reedy Creek district its clear that the playbook is about accumulating power and wielding it against perceived out-groups and especially sexual minorities. That to me is deeply worrying.

Are you purposely full of shit or do you actually have problems with reading/counting?

Glad someone else decided to go through and fact check him on that.

 

[Poon Goon]

Glad someone else decided to go through and fact check him on that.

I haven't really followed this thread, but when I saw that claim I knew he was just pulling those numbers out of his ass. Weird thing to minimize though.

 

[koquerelle]

The party preaching less govt overreach enacting more laws. Classic.

Exactly. There are already laws in place for libel and slander. Why do they feel the need to add more laws?

 

[AbominableJoman]

Are you purposely full of shit or do you actually have problems with reading/counting?

 

[mkess101]

Are you purposely full of shit or do you actually have problems with reading/counting?

Should've said I read the first few pages of replies, not every single one. But hey if it's actually a whopping 8-9 Sherdoggers (wouldn't even say the last 2 you posted necessarily outright state support for the law) then it's practically already law. No court would dare strike down something that many Sherdoggers flippantly posted a sentence of support for on our karate forum.

 

[mkess101]

Not just one state, one of the largest in the union in terms of population and the size of its economy and its also a trend setter. DeSantis is one of the most visible governors in the country and Trump basically operates out of Florida so it has a disproportionate effect on the GOP in general and in many ways portends the direction of the party. When you look at this law in context of the widespread Florida book challenges and the Parental Rights bill(i.e. the so called "Don't Say Gay" bill) which was about antagonizing educators and enforcing cultural compliance as well as the attacks on the Disney Reedy Creek district its clear that the playbook is about accumulating power and wielding it against perceived out-groups and especially sexual minorities. That to me is deeply worrying.

Glad someone else decided to go through and fact check him on that.

Worrying about this specific bill is wasted energy. The overall trend is one thing, a bill that will instantly be struck down like this is empty posturing. It actually benefits those who oppose it since as soon as it's struck down, there's legal precedent to rule other similar bills (even watered down versions) as unconstitutional.

 

[Andy Capp]

Worrying about this specific bill is wasted energy. The overall trend is one thing, a bill that will instantly be struck down like this is empty posturing. It actually benefits those who oppose it since as soon as it's struck down, there's legal precedent to rule other similar bills (even watered down versions) as unconstitutional.

It also allows them to get a ruling from the court about specific flaws in the legislation, change the wording, and try to slip past the same garbage but in a different bag. Rinse/repeat. Then they can keep going until they have something that passes a court challenge but still accomplishes all or some of what they want.

As @Islam Imamate has pointed out, Ronda Santis' administration has been charging headlong toward authoritarianism for some time now. Having already disposed of the law preventing him from remaining governor while campaigning for president, I expect striking down gubernatorial term limits to come any time between now and the end of 2025.

Every such push in that direction, whether it be the bill which is the thread topic, the other ones mentioned by I.A,, should be called out for what it is, IMHO,

 

[mkess101]

It also allows them to get a ruling from the court about specific flaws in the legislation, change the wording, and try to slip past the same garbage but in a different bag. Rinse/repeat. Then they can keep going until they have something that passes a court challenge but still accomplishes all or some of what they want.

As @Islam Imamate has pointed out, Ronda Santis' administration has been charging headlong toward authoritarianism for some time now. Having already disposed of the law preventing him from remaining governor while campaigning for president, I expect striking down gubernatorial term limits to come any time between now and the end of 2025.

Every such push in that direction, whether it be the bill which is the thread topic, the other ones mentioned by I.A,, should be called out for what it is, IMHO,

Possibly...maybe I'm naive but even the right leaning SCOTUS as currently constructed wouldn't dream of ruling in favor of anything remotely resembling this imo.

 

[panamaican]

I mean, I think there's shades of gray for sure but I'm not talking really about something that might be misinterpreted because on that front I agree with you. Someone's intent and how it's received are two different things and the offended person might truly feel bigotry from the offender when none is remotely intended.

I'm talking about a situation where someone flat out makes up a lie about what someone said to paint them as a bigot. A true false accusation of bigotry, with no room for interpretation.


I think iirc there was a situation in sports awhile back where someone accused someone else of calling them the N word and used it as justification for some sort of retaliation. After a long inquiry etc it came out that it was never said, that was just a heat of the moment reaction by the guy to defend his actions was to claim racism. I wish I could remember the details better but I do remember thinking "Damn, he labeled dude a racist and it sure looks like that was total BS. People's lives are ruined if they're branded that. If they are actually racist, too bad and they deserve what they get. But something like this...wow."

In your example, the problem is lying. Focusing on the content of the lie misses the core problem. The person lied.

And if that's the type of example that you're referencing then you should say "I think lying about someone is similar to hate speech," or whatever. And lying about people to harm their image is already criminalized via libel and defamation laws. Or misappropriation of someone's image and likeness to commit a fraud. That the lie was "racist" or "transphobic" really doesn't matter any more than if the lie was "He fucked your wife when you were out of town," or "she's a kiddie diddler". Lies are lies.

 

[mkess101]

In your example, the problem is lying. Focusing on the content of the lie misses the core problem. The person lied.

And if that's the type of example that you're referencing then you should say "I think lying about someone is similar to hate speech," or whatever. And lying about people to harm their image is already criminalized via libel and defamation laws. Or misappropriation of someone's image and likeness to commit a fraud. That the lie was "racist" or "transphobic" really doesn't matter any more than if the lie was "He fucked your wife when you were out of town," or "she's a kiddie diddler". Lies are lies.

Fair, and one the reasons this law is stupid and not needed.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

Desantis doing damage control after his presidential campaign and bending the knee.

 

[panamaican]

Fair, and one the reasons this law is stupid and not needed.

Definitely agree on that.

As a law, it bothers me because it truly serves no purpose except political signaling on culture wars issues. And I think there's a rot in government when legislatures are passing laws solely for culture wars signaling.

This was my issue withe Buttigieg law cutting his salary to $1. If he was truly failing at his job, take real action against him. Actually impeach him or pass some law that prevents him from doing the job badly. But the $1 stunt would allow him to keep doing the very things that they opposed, only with less compensation. How does that make things better for the American people if Buttigieg was underperforming? It doesn't, it just gives them something to put on commercials and fundraisers.

This sort of thing really bothers me. Do the job, don't just do the publicity.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Worrying about this specific bill is wasted energy. The overall trend is one thing, a bill that will instantly be struck down like this is empty posturing. It actually benefits those who oppose it since as soon as it's struck down, there's legal precedent to rule other similar bills (even watered down versions) as unconstitutional.

You don't want us to talk about this bill in the very thread that was made to discuss it but instead want to shift the focus on what you admit is a relatively rare and not serious problem of false accusations of racism? Don't you see how that might seem a bit silly to me?

 

[mkess101]

You don't want us to talk about this bill in the very thread that was made to discuss it but instead want to shift the focus on what you admit is a relatively rare and not serious problem of false accusations of racism? Don't you see how that might seem a bit silly to me?

Weird way to put it. "Don't want you to talk about it"? I gave my opinion that it's wasted energy because the bill is DOA in the courts imo. I'm not telling you or anyone what you do or don't need to discuss, I'm giving my view on how much (little) a concern it is.

Listen, if anyone in FL (or anywhere for that matter) is ever prosecuted under this law (or even a new iteration of it) I'll be here saying "Shit, I was wrong. @Islam Imamate was right to be concerned."

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

Exactly. There are already laws in place for libel and slander. Why do they feel the need to add more laws?

Because apparently you can go on national news and say whatever you want about someone, without any proof or evidence whatsoever, with no consequences. Meanwhile a crazy person can accuse you of rape on national television, but if you deny it and call that same person a "crack pot", then you are liable for defamation........

 

[William Munny]

The key is that to prove slander/libel it must be shown that the defamatory statements were knowingly false and made for the purpose of materially harming the target. Shifting that burden of truth and empowering state veracity boards to determine whether a given accusation of racism or sexism is "true" is a grave infringement on speech rights.

It is supposed to mean freedom from consequences from the state though. Being fired for protected speech is not an infringement on the 1st amendment but being prosecuted for it is. You can understand that distinction right?

I know you're trying to impress your white leftist friends here, but have a little self respect.

accusations, especially by the type of people you revere are often knowingly false, and used to silent people and materially and reputationally harm someone.

again, it's no different from accusing someone of being a child rapist without any proof.

embarrassing you are.