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Elections First Presidential Debate Discussion: 9/26/16

Who won the debate?


  • Total voters
    495
  • Poll closed .
So let me get this straight...you are willing to accept all the bullshit that comes along with Hillary Clinton, the democrats, the establishment, wall street, supreme court, perpetual war, and everything else as well as give up on your two signature issues ALL because Trump didn't appear to prepare very much for a debate? How does that make sense at all?

Perhaps he did prepare and study but got worked up and lost his train of thought at times or simply just had a bad night. Perhaps he was a bit overconfident since he demolished 16 republicans and thought he could do the same to Hillary? Both possible and both forgivable.

I mean cmon man we're talking about practice. Not policy positions, not track record, not judgement...we talkin bout practice, man. I feel like AI over here...

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Debates are not practice -- they are demonstration of knowledge. He would've failed grade school level testing with that performance -- how can you not see that he's just not qualified?

but it's not even about practice -- Trump can't hit layups, he can't free throws, he stumbles in the post and doesn't know how to tie his shoes.

Serious question: how can you vote for a guy who doesn't understand basic concepts, doesn't prepare and doesn't understand his own points? What do you do for a living that you think someone like that is hirable?
 
Both were full of shit, bending the truth and denying facts. Just read conservative/right-wing papers which focus on Hillary's untruthful statements and left-wing papers which focus on Trump's BS and do some quick Google research. You can't really come to a different conclusion.
To say that she never lied is delusional sorry. But to provide some material:

Trump says Clinton called the TPP the gold standard, Clinton: “Donald I know you live in your own reality" and "no".
Quote Clinton: “This TPP sets the gold standard in trade agreements to open free, transparent, fair trade, the kind of environment that has the rule of law and a level playing field..."
https://www.state.gov/secretary/20092013clinton/rm/2012/11/200565.htm
Lie.

Clinton: "I voted for every sanction against Iran when I was in the Senate, but it wasn't enough, so I spent a year-and-a-half putting together a coalition that included Russia and China to impose the toughest sanctions on Iran."
See: Hillary Clinton celebrates the Iran sanctions that her state department tried to stop
"Leading administration officials including Undersecretary of State Wendy Sherman publicly expressed “strong opposition” to the amendment, arguing that it would anger allies by opening them up for punishment if they did not significantly reduce their imports of Iranian oil.Clinton’s top deputies fought the amendment at every step of the legislative process. Clinton’s #2 at the State Department, Bill Burns, even joined an emergency meeting with top senators to urge them to drop the amendment. They refused"

She said that crime in NYC went down after stop-and-frisk was abolished and repeated that when Trump said it didn't. Also said stop-and-frisk was ineffective. Both is wrong.
C: "Under the current mayor ..crime has continued to drop, including murders"
T: "You're wrong"
C: "I'm not"
T: "Murders are up"
C: "NY has done an excellent job....because it has worked..."

After stop-and-frisk was abolished, crime rates went up not down. 328 murders in NY 2014, 352 in 2015, "gun crime was experiencing its first two-year consecutive increase in nearly two decades"
https://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/ferguson-effect-real-and-hurts-minorities-9124.html
With stop-and frisk practice in place, murders have gone down -80%, major felonies -75%.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324063304578525850909628878

Clinton supporters (including some news papers) now simply look at the first quarter of 2016 and point to low numbers but that's bending the truth at its best, nobody says that murders are equally distributed over 12 months. Even if you'd accept this, then in other statements just a few sentences apart, she suddenly brings up points which are only valid if you're looking at a 30 years span or something or untrue otherwise.
One way or the other, looking at the numbers as neutral as possible, Trump is right here, Hillary is bending the truth and adding some statements which are completely wrong.

Then all of the claims about systemic racism "Too many young African-American and Latino men ended up in jail for nonviolent offenses. And it's just a fact that if you're a young African-American man and you do the same thing as a young white man, you are more likely to be arrested, charged, convicted, and incarcerated"
This narrative that systemic racism is a proven fact doesn't become more true if you repeat as often as possible.
There's basically no accepted study which proves systemic racism, there are many who come to the conclusion that it's highly unlikely to exist at all.
One from September of 2016: http://courts.delaware.gov/supreme/docs/DE_DisparityReport.pdf
http://www.city-journal.org/html/criminal-justice-system-racist-13078.html
TPP: She didn't deny calling it the gold standard and then later changing her mind. If she's guilty of something there, it's for promoting deals that are still being negotiated. Go look at the transcript and see the exchange, as Trump continually interrupted her as she began to clarify. Not a lie.

Iran: She didn't want to piss off our allies? How terrible of her. If she has taken credit for their uranium practices changing, that is mostly wrong and she shouldn't take much credit at all. She's worried about ballistic missiles which you may have noticed.

NYC: I guess we'll just draw a line in the sand on this one. Stop and frisk did not work, but it sure violated the shit out of people's constitutional rights. And NYC is trending down in murder (and not just the first quarter), though it's true there was a rise in 2015.

There are multiple studies confirming (some) systemic racism, see: justice department's recent work on racial profiling and increased federal time served for blacks. However I'm against the liberal line on this one, in that racism is improving generally speaking and we don't need new initiatives except for locally-targeted ones, like here near STL.
 
Trump going full Tito today with the excuses. My mic wasn't working, Holt was unfair, I broke my neck in camp.
 
Debates are not practice -- they are demonstration of knowledge. He would've failed grade school level testing with that performance -- how can you not see that he's just not qualified?

Knowledge without wisdom is nothing. You can have all the knowledge in the world but if you don't have the judgement, or even worse the intention, of making the best decision on behalf of the United States...well the hell with your knowledge(not you personally).

You can teach knowledge...but you can't teach wisdom. Allow Trump to be briefed on something and I trust his judgement much more than Hillary.

but it's not even about practice -- Trump can't hit layups, he can't free throws, he stumbles in the post and doesn't know how to tie his shoes.

Ok. But he can pull up from 30, 360 dunk from the free throw line, and drop 50 if he gets hot. You don't just cut that guy because he doesn't have the fundamentals. Well at least not when the other option is some over the hill, out of shape, never was with very low career numbers.

Serious question: how can you vote for a guy who doesn't understand basic concepts, doesn't prepare and doesn't understand his own points? What do you do for a living that you think someone like that is hirable?

Lol, so now Trump isn't employable for anything? Not even his own billion dollar company? Not even when he ran through 16 republicans in earlier debates and dominated the primaries? All of that gets erased because of last night?

Ok, fair enough. I guess we just have two different perspectives on this.
 
Knowledge without wisdom is nothing. You can have all the knowledge in the world but if you don't have the judgement, or even worse the intention, of making the best decision on behalf of the United States...well the hell with your knowledge(not you personally).

You can teach knowledge...but you can't teach wisdom. Allow Trump to be briefed on something and I trust his judgement much more than Hillary.

I think coming in unprepared to a presidential debate showed pretty piss-poor judgement
 
Trump ran through 16 tomato cans and now he looks like one himself.

Hillary threw him off with the line about his father, and then rocked him with the birther stuff. He never really recovered. The sad part is that he will probably only be marginally more prepared for the next debate.
 
I wonder if Trump will start pushing for Gary Johnson being allowed in the next debate.

He works much better with more people.
 
I only really watched/read the foreign policy section of the debate, because the whole performance was awful.
Maybe even as bad as Trump's "reality TV".
The funny thing is that Clinton really dumbs down and parochialises her policy discussion for the format (watch/read her discuss foreign policy with the CFR), and Trump still looked out of his depth.
 
Debates are not practice -- they are demonstration of knowledge. He would've failed grade school level testing with that performance -- how can you not see that he's just not qualified?

but it's not even about practice -- Trump can't hit layups, he can't free throws, he stumbles in the post and doesn't know how to tie his shoes.

Serious question: how can you vote for a guy who doesn't understand basic concepts, doesn't prepare and doesn't understand his own points? What do you do for a living that you think someone like that is hirable?

This isn't a bug, it's a feature. Being a fucking retard who doesn't know basic stuff makes him more attractive to Trumpsters. It's solidifies his outsider anti-establishment cred. Competence and knowledge are for corrupt career politicians.
 
"To me it was embarrassing to watch that these are our two candidates. Both are proven liars. It almost seems like they're trying to debate who's less racist." -- San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick on presidential debate. http://nbcbay.com/i38H6J1

How will the SJW's respond?
 
I wonder if Trump will start pushing for Gary Johnson being allowed in the next debate.

He works much better with more people.
I don't think Trump's performance in the primary debates was helped all that much by the number of candidates present. What I think helped him out a lot is that Republicans are really really limited in the way they can challenge Trump. No Republican that was serious about getting the nomination (or having career after the primary for that matter) would pin Trump as being a out-of-touch rich person or criticize his proposed tax cuts. A lot of what Hillary slammed him over were parts of the Republican platform, albeit heightened by his ignorance and showmanship.
 
I don't think Trump's performance in the primary debates was helped all that much by the number of candidates present. What I think helped him out a lot is that Republicans are really really limited in the way they can challenge Trump. No Republican that was serious about getting the nomination (or having career after the primary for that matter) would pin Trump as being a out-of-touch rich person or criticize his proposed tax cuts. A lot of what Hillary slammed him over were parts of the Republican platform, albeit heightened by his ignorance and showmanship.
This is also true.

I think the multi person format helped though because it limits how much time he can ramble.

Trump is a soundbite king.

But you are definitely correct in your assessment.
 
This is also true.

I think the multi person format helped though because it limits how much time he can ramble.

Trump is a soundbite king.

But you are definitely correct in your assessment.
I hadn't thought about the soundbite part. I guess "I'm gonna build a wall and bring back the jobs we lost to China and Mexico" sounds a lot sexier than the 5 minute segment that follows after "but Mr. Trump, how are you going to accomplish that?"

It's hilarious how Trumpsters are reacting to him being subject to heavy scrutiny for once. The exchange goes a little like this:

- Mr. Trump, you said you would bring back jobs that were outsourced. How?

- I'm gonna do it. It's gonna be a beautiful thing. I'm gonna bring all those jobs back. Hillary created ISIS and has been fighting it all her adult life.

- Mr. Trump, you haven't answered the question.

- BIAS!!!!11!
 
Low energy guys.

You're letting the low testosterone Hillary shills take over this thread?

Trump already said he's going to go harder on Hillary next time. Meanwhile, she's used up all her ammo. This was the punch to the gut that he needed. No more nice guy,
You're so Alpha Bro how much do you lift?
 
This is a shitshow... just not in the way we thought.
What way did you think? I never doubted for a second that he would look like a bozo with no business being there and she would look in total control.
I am Canadian and could not care less who wins, i really don't think it matters. At all.

Having said that holy fuck did Donald take a shit kicking. That looked like an adult talking to a child of ten or so.
I am sure it matters. There is already potential impact to the Canadian dollar just at the prospect of a Trump victory.

I think anyone who believes Trump looked anything but foolish in that debate needs their head examined. He admitted he believes evading taxes is good; it's ok to fuck over other people as long as you can find a loophole that keeps it from being illegal; he thinks it's ok to just steal resources from other countries; he lost his composure multiple times and that was just the debate. What happens when he is under real pressure from other heads of state? You want that guy at your negotiating table if you're Putin, that's for fucking sure, not the political hawk who has been gaining experience for a decade or more. Are any of you people really that dumb?

You want this fucking guy? "Donald was one of the people who rooted for the housing crisis. He said, back in 2006, "Gee, I hope it does collapse, because then I can go in and buy some and make some money.""
"...the wealthy are going create tremendous jobs...."
"...and they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax.
TRUMP: That makes me smart."
That guy. Really? You think he cares about the average person? He said it's ok to hunt for people to screw over who can't stop you, i.e. the little guy. Honest to fuck if you think Trump is the kind of person you want in the White House you're a dumb sick motherfucker.
 
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