News Financial state of the UFC & Bellator - Article

[FrankieNYC]

Does anybody else find it hard to believe BJPenn.com? I mean the articles is fairly sound but they are admitting hip shooting.

Hey
BJPenn.com has changed & come a long way in the past few years.
But what info are you questioning?
I can answer anything if you want.

Re: Hip shooting. Since 2019 is a week old, anybody discussing it would be doing similar. But every outlook was based on solid info/numbers

 

[HankScorpio]

Hey
BJPenn.com has changed & come a long way in the past few years.
But what info are you questioning?
I can answer anything if you want.

Re: Hip shooting. Since 2019 is a week old, anybody discussing it would be doing similar. But every outlook was based on solid info/numbers

I'm basing my assessment on BJPenn.com from the past. I've not gone or looked to that site for information in a while based on past events. The reasoning and "hip shooting" is sound, like I said.
I just have an old bias against the site itself.

Since you're here, what do you think the odds are that Bellator sells out the the UFC? And how funny would it be when everyone who was complaining that UFC let Moose, Roy, and Bader walk, only to reacquire them.

 

[FrankieNYC]

I'm basing my assessment on BJPenn.com from the past. I've not gone or looked to that site for information in a while based on past events. The reasoning and "hip shooting" is sound, like I said.
I just have an old bias against the site itself.

Since you're here, what do you think the odds are that Bellator sells out the the UFC? And how funny would it be when everyone who was complaining that UFC let Moose, Roy, and Bader walk, only to reacquire them.

That is fair
They used to be a clickbait site
From what I know the main guy was let go & they changed direction

I don't see UFC/Bellator happening
UFC is facing an anti-trust suit
Also as Bellator grew, UFC has made more money.

It is a weird time for MMA
It has turned into content distribution over anything else

Fascinating, but also you have to wonder if/when the bubble burst

 

[ColombianFist]

Ha far from it, but its nice to get some noticing my info/insights

I think Bellator becoming profitable is huge & a bigger story than UFC making more money

i mean only a complete buffoon would still think "UFC is dying" with all the info available

I believe the UFC is dying... from the matchups and management part. money wise they are getting a lot of profit but after Jones microdosing and still available to fight is bullshit.

 

[FrankieNYC]

I believe the UFC is dying... from the matchups and management part. money wise they are getting a lot of profit but after Jones microdosing and still available to fight is bullshit.

You disliking them (valid reasons) does not mean they are dying
they could do $400m in profit in 2019

That is about 2.67 times what they made in 2015 (the year before the sale)
that is the opposite of dying

Ripping them for obvious creative short-comings is not equal to a company death

 

[ColombianFist]

You disliking them (valid reasons) does not mean they are dying
they could do $400m in profit in 2019

That is about 2.67 times what they made in 2015 (the year before the sale)
that is the opposite of dying

Ripping them for obvious creative short-comings is not equal to a company death

exactly. allowing Jones to fight doesn't mean they are going bankrupt, it's just the way they handle things in a corrupt way but WME will still make money with the UFC.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

I believe the UFC is dying... from the matchups and management part. money wise they are getting a lot of profit but after Jones microdosing and still available to fight is bullshit.

I believe it's dying because of the new management slowly-but-steadily turning it from a fighting spectacle to a liberal reality-TV gameshow

 

[FrankieNYC]

exactly. allowing Jones to fight doesn't mean they are going bankrupt, it's just the way they handle things in a corrupt way but WME will still make money with the UFC.

We are on same page in that post

 

[cevo]

Very interesting. People keep saying that the Fertitas conned WME but it's not looking like that's the case. And if they get a 70/30 split on PPV that is just crazy.

WME conned Sherdog

 

[0verlord]

the fuck is this, the money channel?

 

[FrankieNYC]

the fuck is this, the money channel?

 

[HankScorpio]

That is fair
They used to be a clickbait site
From what I know the main guy was let go & they changed direction

I don't see UFC/Bellator happening
UFC is facing an anti-trust suit
Also as Bellator grew, UFC has made more money.

It is a weird time for MMA
It has turned into content distribution over anything else

Fascinating, but also you have to wonder if/when the bubble burst

• I can easily see Bellator selling to the UFC, if Viacom is truly looking to sell, who else is going to buy it?
  
• I think the UFC will be fine in anti-trust court, citing the NFL, NBA, MLB etc...
• "Bellator grew, the UFC made more money" my conclusion is, and something we all have known, the casuals don't know the difference. That is Bellators biggest problem.
• I don't think the UFC bubble can burst; stagnate maybe dip

 

[FrankieNYC]

• I can easily see Bellator selling to the UFC, if Viacom is truly looking to sell, who else is going to buy it?
  
• I think the UFC will be fine in anti-trust court, citing the NFL, NBA, MLB etc...
• "Bellator grew, the UFC made more money" my conclusion is, and something we all have known, the casuals don't know the difference. That is Bellators biggest problem.
• I don't think the UFC bubble can burst; stagnate maybe dip

I disagree on the first part
Could happen, but i don't see it

Plenty of people could be interested in Bellator. there is stupid money being thrown around at ONE & PFL & they are money pits.
Bellator looks to finally be making money.

its the perfect time to sell/buy

 

[skylolow]

• I can easily see Bellator selling to the UFC, if Viacom is truly looking to sell, who else is going to buy it?
  
• I think the UFC will be fine in anti-trust court, citing the NFL, NBA, MLB etc...
• "Bellator grew, the UFC made more money" my conclusion is, and something we all have known, the casuals don't know the difference. That is Bellators biggest problem.
• I don't think the UFC bubble can burst; stagnate maybe dip

There is a lot of investors that look at what the UFC sold for and think they can follow in the same foot steps.

Some of the players that might be interested in Bellator could be some of the same groups that bid on the UFC or links to those groups.

It will be very interesting to see what they get for Bellator. It will literally be the only org outside the UFC that has ever sold that is making a profit. If Viacom offers some sort of media outlet deal with the sale I think it will sell for a hell of a lot more than people would ever think on here.

 

[skylolow]

Good article and props to you FrankieNYC

 

[Bubba32]

Frankie openly parrots anything Meltzer says and blocks anyone who calls him out on pulling shit out of his ass lel

I do like Meltzer though

When he brings nuggets from Meltzer to the board its valuable. Frankies own analysis is meh. Some good some not so good.

Dazn's deal adds revenue but how much revenue did bellator/viacom lose because of the deal? their ratings are like half what they were 2 years ago. So if theyre making half what they used to then how much of an addition is dazn? Dave Meltzer is very close to scott coker so if thats where he got the 33m/yr number from how much of that is bullshit because a promoters job is to you know bullshit? Pretty much every other deal dazn and TV networks sign the figures are publicaly announced. Why wasnt Bellators numbers announced?

The only thing that was announced was 9 figures for 5 years. So all we know is that it could be 100m for 5 years (avge of 20m/yr) and we dont know how much of that is actually gauranteed. We also know that these deals start low and increase every year so it could be even less the earlier years.

Viacom is a publicly traded company so if they did get 33m a year (10th of the UFC's deal) they would have announced it which could give bellator up to a 400m valuation (10th of the UFC's purchase price). This would be a 10 times increase to what Viacom paid bellator for. Wouldnt they be celebrating this and announcing it all over to help viacoms stock price?

The only reason they wouldnt announce the actual figures is because it would hurt the stock price.

It's possible that 33m/yr number is based on the amount of subscribers/viewers they bring to the table and the guarantee is actually much lower. Or its complete bullshit or its actually true and someone was dumb enough to pay that much for something that had no other bidders.

 

[FrankieNYC]

When he brings nuggets from Meltzer to the board its valuable. Frankies own analysis is meh. Some good some not so good.

Dazn's deal adds revenue but how much revenue did bellator/viacom lose because of the deal? their ratings are like half what they were 2 years ago. So if theyre making half what they used to then how much of an addition is dazn? Dave Meltzer is very close to scott coker so if thats where he got the 33m/yr number from how much of that is bullshit because a promoters job is to you know bullshit? Pretty much every other deal dazn and TV networks sign the figures are publicaly announced. Why wasnt Bellators numbers announced?

The only thing that was announced was 9 figures for 5 years. So all we know is that it could be 100m for 5 years (avge of 20m/yr) and we dont know how much of that is actually gauranteed. We also know that these deals start low and increase every year so it could be even less the earlier years.

Viacom is a publicly traded company so if they did get 33m a year (10th of the UFC's deal) they would have announced it which could give bellator up to a 400m valuation (10th of the UFC's purchase price). This would be a 10 times increase to what Viacom paid bellator for. Wouldnt they be celebrating this and announcing it all over to help viacoms stock price?

The only reason they wouldnt announce the actual figures is because it would hurt the stock price.

It's possible that 33m/yr number is based on the amount of subscribers/viewers they bring to the table and the guarantee is actually much lower. Or its complete bullshit or its actually true and someone was dumb enough to pay that much for something that had no other bidders.

Or you are completely wrong & even John Nash said I had the Bellator info correct

So that is both Nash & Meltzer that agreed with the info provided & their credibility is a lot better than yours (or mine)

As far as your opinion of my analysis, thankfully the opinions of people like Meltzer, Nash, Ourand, Harrington, etc disagree with you.
But its fine you feel that way.

Happy New Year though

 

[FrankieNYC]

Good article and props to you FrankieNYC

Thank you man
Got lots of props from some important people that should open the door to more info in the future

As I wrote earlier, John Nash (who was the first to break UFC financial info) emailed me this ...
Really impressed that you got the Bellator DAZN deal right. Haven't seen anyone else accurately report it, both number of years and amount (although it might be even for a little more than 33 mil a year) I have an article on Bellator's finances that should be posted any day now.

So I look towards his updated info/insights & i will post it (if someone doesn't) & add my 2c in

 

[FrankieNYC]

There is a lot of investors that look at what the UFC sold for and think they can follow in the same foot steps.

Some of the players that might be interested in Bellator could be some of the same groups that bid on the UFC or links to those groups.

It will be very interesting to see what they get for Bellator. It will literally be the only org outside the UFC that has ever sold that is making a profit. If Viacom offers some sort of media outlet deal with the sale I think it will sell for a hell of a lot more than people would ever think on here.

100%

Don't forget though ... we don't know they are up for sale for sure
I wouldn't doubt it mainly because ...
1. It is a good time to sell
2. They gave another content distributor their content
3. Viacom met with WME about UFC content last May. No way UFC would deal with them if they were owners of Bellator

 

[FrankieNYC]

Viacom is a publicly traded company so if they did get 33m a year (10th of the UFC's deal) they would have announced it which could give bellator up to a 400m valuation (10th of the UFC's purchase price). This would be a 10 times increase to what Viacom paid bellator for.

Had to isolate that because that is not how it works at all lol