Fighting Games Discussion

[OnionKnight86]

 

[MMAisGod]

SF6 is awesome, but man I have some ultimate salt with throw loops and "corner neutral jump". Feel like the corner is too oppressive even for characters who shouldn't be oppressive, and the overload of options leave you too vulnerable to throw loops and neutral jump than they should be. Leaves me shaking my head sometimes. Probably my only real gripe at the moment. All the games elements combined might turn it into "who gets who in the corner first" for a lot of MUs in the future.

 

[Crimson Fury]

Anyone playing today?

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Real SF2 CPU Guile wouldnt need to duck, he'd just bust out the standing flash kick.

 

[Crimson Fury]

Goddamn, Endingwalker is getting obliterated by Kakeru's JP.

 

[what-wut]

SF6 is awesome, but man I have some ultimate salt with throw loops and "corner neutral jump". Feel like the corner is too oppressive even for characters who shouldn't be oppressive, and the overload of options leave you too vulnerable to throw loops and neutral jump than they should be. Leaves me shaking my head sometimes. Probably my only real gripe at the moment. All the games elements combined might turn it into "who gets who in the corner first" for a lot of MUs in the future.

Honestly fuck the lovefest, head in the sand attitude of the fans it was stupid. From day one We had to be more critical and questioning. Fact is that the offence in the game is waaaay too braindead and strong.

A guy can easily just go drive rush that's hard to react to into a 50/50 shimmy how stupid is that? and that's not even the corner stuff.

Another thing that REALLY pisses me off is the high speed dash just another tool to negate solid footsie play.

I feel like they kept waaaay too many things from the hot pile of garbage called sfv. I think the bs is getting to me especially since Gief needs meter more than others and has basically no reversal except for level three.

Shimmy damage has to be a special statue where the damage is reduced or make back dash invincible that are the only two logical solutions. Otherwise it's too much like sfv.

 

[Crimson Fury]

Honestly fuck the lovefest, head in the sand attitude of the fans it was stupid. From day one We had to be more critical and questioning. Fact is that the offence in the game is waaaay too braindead and strong.

A guy can easily just go drive rush that's hard to react to into a 50/50 shimmy how stupid is that? and that's not even the corner stuff.

Another thing that REALLY pisses me off is the high speed dash just another tool to negate solid footsie play.

I feel like they kept waaaay too many things from the hot pile of garbage called sfv. I think the bs is getting to me especially since Gief needs meter more than others and has basically no reversal except for level three.

Shimmy damage has to be a special statue where the damage is reduced or make back dash invincible that are the only two logical solutions. Otherwise it's too much like sfv.

It's hilarious how all these other characters have a level one reversal, but Gief needs a level three. That and his Lariat completely whiffs opponents behind him. Some of the opponents I've faced seemed surprised about this. It's like they're thinking, "Oh. What? I can walk through this? Really? Cool! Free combo!" Ugh!

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Honestly fuck the lovefest, head in the sand attitude of the fans it was stupid. From day one We had to be more critical and questioning. Fact is that the offence in the game is waaaay too braindead and strong.

A guy can easily just go drive rush that's hard to react to into a 50/50 shimmy how stupid is that? and that's not even the corner stuff.

Another thing that REALLY pisses me off is the high speed dash just another tool to negate solid footsie play.

I feel like they kept waaaay too many things from the hot pile of garbage called sfv. I think the bs is getting to me especially since Gief needs meter more than others and has basically no reversal except for level three.

Shimmy damage has to be a special statue where the damage is reduced or make back dash invincible that are the only two logical solutions. Otherwise it's too much like sfv.

To be honest though I still see no reason to move beyond 3rd Strike, was tempted to give SF6 a try but watching matches really doesn't appeal that much to me, still seems like its too focused on combo tech other neutral and strong reads.

I don't think Capcom will ever make a SF game like that again, its just not were the money is.

 

[what-wut]

It's hilarious how all these other characters have a level one reversal, but Gief needs a level three. That and his Lariat completely whiffs opponents behind him. Some of the opponents I've faced seemed surprised about this. It's like they're thinking, "Oh. What? I can walk through this? Really? Cool! Free combo!" Ugh!

Gief needs so many buffs tbh I'll list them here just for my own amusement.

1- his combos from normals ie when the opponent is trying to jump away have trash damage.

2- his lariat only works as a combo without meter from up close so you are forced to use meter waay too much and at very low damage.

3- his footsie normal that you can drive cancel standing lk needs a range buff it's too short.

4- crouching mp needs to be linkable to other normals on counter hit.

5- standing lp needs to be an AA like it was in sfv this is actually a very crucial buff.

6- level 2 needs a faster start up so it can be used as a reversal.

Non of these are crazy buffs but I feel it will make him much stronger.

 

[what-wut]

To be honest though I still see no reason to move beyond 3rd Strike, was tempted to give SF6 a try but watching matches really doesn't appeal that much to me, still seems like its too focused on combo tech other neutral and strong reads.

I don't think Capcom will ever make a SF game like that again, its just not were the money is.

What do you mean "other neutral") I didn't understand.

I can tell you some of the top tier have a lot of neutral negating stuff like op DR or very fast dash ken has that fast kick move that is super plus on block lol.

 

[Crimson Fury]

I felt bad for EndingWalker. That super at the end of game 3 was pure desperation. He probably just gave up at that point.

 

[Crimson Fury]

Gief needs so many buffs tbh I'll list them here just for my own amusement.

1- his combos from normals ie when the opponent is trying to jump away have trash damage.

2- his lariat only works as a combo without meter from up close so you are forced to use meter waay too much and at very low damage.

3- his footsie normal that you can drive cancel standing lk needs a range buff it's too short.

4- crouching mp needs to be linkable to other normals on counter hit.

5- standing lp needs to be an AA like it was in sfv this is actually a very crucial buff.

6- level 2 needs a faster start up so it can be used as a reversal.

Non of these are crazy buffs but I feel it will make him much stronger.

There's nothing absurd in this list. It wouldn't make him top tier or anything, but he might feel like a more complete character.

 

[MMAisGod]

Honestly fuck the lovefest, head in the sand attitude of the fans it was stupid. From day one We had to be more critical and questioning. Fact is that the offence in the game is waaaay too braindead and strong.

A guy can easily just go drive rush that's hard to react to into a 50/50 shimmy how stupid is that? and that's not even the corner stuff.

Another thing that REALLY pisses me off is the high speed dash just another tool to negate solid footsie play.

I feel like they kept waaaay too many things from the hot pile of garbage called sfv. I think the bs is getting to me especially since Gief needs meter more than others and has basically no reversal except for level three.

Shimmy damage has to be a special statue where the damage is reduced or make back dash invincible that are the only two logical solutions. Otherwise it's too much like sfv.

I hear ya, I am really enjoying the game, but it's past time for constructive criticism now. I forgot to mention that but you're dead on about the "shimmy 50/50" part too, and the characters that have the best DRs/Loops/Shimmy by coincidence are all the strongest characters lol. DRs like Juri and DeeJay are borderline game breaking because they aren't playing the same game, they are just in your face when they want with turning EVEN NEGATIVE MOVES PLUS lol Mannnnnnn. I really wish they made the backdash invincible. But there is some really oppressive stuff in this game.

 

[MMAisGod]

Also @Crimson Fury GGs bro, I was making a little run in the Hub a couple of times lol. I see you're learning the cast now, smart. That zoning in that Lily MU against that dude is probably the peak JP play.

Gief needs so many buffs tbh I'll list them here just for my own amusement.

1- his combos from normals ie when the opponent is trying to jump away have trash damage.

2- his lariat only works as a combo without meter from up close so you are forced to use meter waay too much and at very low damage.

3- his footsie normal that you can drive cancel standing lk needs a range buff it's too short.

4- crouching mp needs to be linkable to other normals on counter hit.

5- standing lp needs to be an AA like it was in sfv this is actually a very crucial buff.

6- level 2 needs a faster start up so it can be used as a reversal.

Non of these are crazy buffs but I feel it will make him much stronger.

These are actually very solid suggestions. Don't see anything wrong with any of them.

 

[Crimson Fury]

Gief needs so many buffs tbh I'll list them here just for my own amusement.

1- his combos from normals ie when the opponent is trying to jump away have trash damage.

2- his lariat only works as a combo without meter from up close so you are forced to use meter waay too much and at very low damage.

3- his footsie normal that you can drive cancel standing lk needs a range buff it's too short.

4- crouching mp needs to be linkable to other normals on counter hit.

5- standing lp needs to be an AA like it was in sfv this is actually a very crucial buff.

6- level 2 needs a faster start up so it can be used as a reversal.

Non of these are crazy buffs but I feel it will make him much stronger.

Something else. His Level 1 could be retweaked. It only seems to catch opponents when they're jumping away. I was hoping it was more like his CVS2 Level Air Super, heh.

 

[Crimson Fury]

Also @Crimson Fury GGs bro, I was making a little run in the Hub a couple of times lol. I see you're learning the cast now, smart. That zoning in that Lily MU against that dude is probably the peak JP play.



These are actually very solid suggestions. Don't see anything wrong with any of them.

I got sick and tired of this game eating Gief's inputs lol. I switched to Honda and starting winning more in Ranked. I thought it was me at first until I tried a much harder game (KOF 2002) and my moves were working. Hmmm. I dunno.

 

[what-wut]

I hear ya, I am really enjoying the game, but it's past time for constructive criticism now. I forgot to mention that but you're dead on about the "shimmy 50/50" part too, and the characters that have the best DRs/Loops/Shimmy by coincidence are all the strongest characters lol. DRs like Juri and DeeJay are borderline game breaking because they aren't playing the same game, they are just in your face when they want with turning EVEN NEGATIVE MOVES PLUS lol Mannnnnnn. I really wish they made the backdash invincible. But there is some really oppressive stuff in this game.

Not only does Juri have a stupid DR she also has a crazy fast forward dash lol, I like dr as a concept but it shouldn't be impossible to react to. JP's drive rush is sensible.
I'm worried that the fans are too uncritical some of the stuff we are complaining about are only seen at high level where the majority of the players might not experience the shimmy bs.

Drive impact has damage scalling which is the right thing but neutral shimmy mix up which is too strong actually has increased damage since it's counter hit lol. My hope they scale it like they do drive impact, it's the most fair option. or the whiff animation on grab needs to be reduced.

 

[Crimson Fury]

Not only does Juri have a stupid DR she also has a crazy fast forward dash lol, I like dr as a concept but it shouldn't be impossible to react to. JP's drive rush is sensible.
I'm worried that the fans are too uncritical some of the stuff we are complaining about are only seen at high level where the majority of the players might not experience the shimmy bs.

Drive impact has damage scalling which is the right thing but neutral shimmy mix up which is too strong actually has increased damage since it's counter hit lol. My hope they scale it like they do drive impact, it's the most fair option. or the whiff animation on grab needs to be reduced.

I swear Dee Jay's DR seems a bit faster and covers more distance than Juri's. Maybe it's just me, I dunno. Regardless, both of their DRs need to be tone down a little bit.

 

[MMAisGod]

Not only does Juri have a stupid DR she also has a crazy fast forward dash lol, I like dr as a concept but it shouldn't be impossible to react to. JP's drive rush is sensible.
I'm worried that the fans are too uncritical some of the stuff we are complaining about are only seen at high level where the majority of the players might not experience the shimmy bs.

Drive impact has damage scalling which is the right thing but neutral shimmy mix up which is too strong actually has increased damage since it's counter hit lol. My hope they scale it like they do drive impact, it's the most fair option. or the whiff animation on grab needs to be reduced.

Yep there's definitely a roses stage we need to get past earlier than later. Even with balance there always will be differently balanced characters, but it's becoming obvious that the ones who don't maximize the system mechanics are the lower tier characters. Guile is probably the only exception.

 

[what-wut]

Yep there's definitely a roses stage we need to get past earlier than later. Even with balance there always will be differently balanced characters, but it's becoming obvious that the ones who don't maximize the system mechanics are the lower tier characters. Guile is probably the only exception.

Are you getting your games from custom rooms or ranked? Cause when you reach master rank you start to notice this stuff much more since the level is higher and players typically know what to exploit more.