Feminism, Sexism, and Entitlement

[SowingSeason]

You can't. That's the problem.

But if we acknowledge that differences between the sexes justify different treatment under certain circumstances then you have to apply that knowledge to other areas. And that undermines the argument that women and men should be treated equally in all things - which seems to be the cornerstone of the modern feminist movement.

The thing is that no two groups can be treated equally in every way. There will always be exceptions. That goes for race, gender, class, etc.

I don't understsand why there is this unattainable expectation for the male/female dynamic but the above fact is accepted in regards to other issues.

 

[Memory**]

See, I can use the term 'feminism' just as the dictionary teaches me to use it. But you're determined to attach it to modifiers that serve your interest. If you and a million other ignorant people weren't so lazy, and instead of saying 'Down with feminism!', said, 'Hold on now, feminism is a fundamentally fair idea, let's not throw the baby out with the bath-water', we might get somewhere. Which you aren't interested in doing. You're using the ignorance of others as an excuse for your own laziness and misogyny.

Lol most things have a context outside of a dictionary including who defines the word itself in the first place. Nationalism, ethnic pride,socialism.unfortunately reality kicks in and such terms carry the burden of how they are carried out in practice.

 

[BownArrow]

This is what feminism has devolved into.


Did some research into the guy they were protesting and he is about as equal rights for equal sexes as you can possibly be.

They were protesting nothing.

According to them, anyone that stands up for mens rights is a rape-supporting male chauvinist. Its gross. These people need help.

The dude wrote a book describing the benefits of molesting your children. It's described in another thread.

 

[Fat Abbot]

Fat Abbott:

Wrong Bundy.

 

[SowingSeason]

Lol most things have a context outside of a dictionary including who defines the word itself in the first place. Nationalism, ethnic pride,socialism.unfortunately reality kicks in and such terms carry the burden of how they are carried out in practice.

Reality does not equal your prejudices.

 

[Josh]

Tomax:

Oh Fat Abbot, you're so naive. There are no maidens to rescue here, this is just a discussion. But I get why you're jealous, because I do regularly 'rescue maidens' in real life, and you've somehow clued into this. Good for you.

 

[SowingSeason]

Wrong Bundy.

Nah. I've seen the shit you post. I got it right.

 

[hohner]

She never would've been poor. Very few artists come from a working class background. I think she deserves all the accolades of any woman who shoves things into her offices. Or man for that matter.

According to what source?

 

[SowingSeason]

The dude wrote a book describing the benefits of molesting your children. It's described in another thread.

Boom.

 

[Crazyced]

Highly reccommend, if you have a few extra hours.

Thanks, I actually watched his presentation (the one he made in Toronto, with dozens of raging feminists at the door).

Hahaha! Thanks, I appreciate the GIF.

I didn't want you to feel like your work was ignored. :icon_chee

 

[Josh]

Lol most things have a context outside of a dictionary including who defines the word itself in the first place. Nationalism, ethnic pride,socialism.unfortunately reality kicks in and such terms carry the burden of how they are carried out in practice.

So you hate on those who perpetuate 'modern feminism', yet you refuse to help disavow them from what is in essence a fair and just cause? I guess it's easier to bitch than effect change.

 

[Fat Abbot]

I believe it is important to remember that sexism goes both ways and that the so-called "War on Women" may not be true, and if it is, then there's also a "War on Men" too. Modern-Day Feminism has actually made quite a few myths to garner great support on their side. The sad thing is that if you try to make a comment that disagrees with them you'll sometimes be called a "woman hater" or "scum of the earth." By no means do I consider myself to be either, but here are a few things I've learned through my own research, take it for what it's worth:

Myth 1. Women make less money than men due to discrimination

This is not entirely accurate in today's society. Although, there is an income disparity between men and women, both genders are generally paid the same for the same work. There are quite a few reasons for the income disparity, one of the main reasons being is that women, in general, prefer to be more socially-oriented with friends rather than career-oriented such as men. In other words, if men are given the opportunity to get more hours, rather than hang out with friends, they are more likely to do so. On frequent occasion, women actually make more per hour than men due to the fact that their interpersonal skills often exceed that of their male counterparts in negotiations of pay.

Myth 2. Women aren't being given as good of health-care as men

The evidence seems to point otherwise. Women have a much longer life-expectancy than men in the United States. Another interesting fact is that, although Breast and Prostate Cancer kill roughly the same amount of people, Breast Cancer Research gets about 700% more funding than does Prostate Cancer. It is possible that there is some health-care discrimination against women, but there's also a good amount against men that's not mentioned or downplayed.

Myth 3. Women aren't given the same opportunities for employment as men

Again, the evidence points to the contrary. Often businesses are actually interested in hiring more women due to tax-credit opportunities provided by the government. It's also mentioned that there are nearly no women in certain fields such as Construction, Coal Mining, ect. Yet the majority of these jobs are the most dangerous jobs on the planet. It's also downplayed that men make up an average of 93% of workplace related deaths due to the fields they dominate. And the safest occupations such as Secretaries and Receptionists are dominated by women by more than 90%.

These are just a few myths that are spread, there are many more, but I'm getting tired of writing. I'm not trying to say that there aren't any injustices against women, there are, but there are just as many injustices against men today that are downplayed primarily due to modern-day feminism.

This deserves another:

 

[Terror Zone]

The dude wrote a book describing the benefits of molesting your children. It's described in another thread.

Link?

 

[Josh]

I believe it is important to remember that sexism goes both ways and that the so-called "War on Women" may not be true, and if it is, then there's also a "War on Men" too. Modern-Day Feminism has actually made quite a few myths to garner great support on their side. The sad thing is that if you try to make a comment that disagrees with them you'll sometimes be called a "woman hater" or "scum of the earth." By no means do I consider myself to be either, but here are a few things I've learned through my own research, take it for what it's worth:

Myth 1. Women make less money than men due to discrimination

This is not entirely accurate in today's society. Although, there is an income disparity between men and women, both genders are generally paid the same for the same work. There are quite a few reasons for the income disparity, one of the main reasons being is that women, in general, prefer to be more socially-oriented with friends rather than career-oriented such as men. In other words, if men are given the opportunity to get more hours, rather than hang out with friends, they are more likely to do so. On frequent occasion, women actually make more per hour than men due to the fact that their interpersonal skills often exceed that of their male counterparts in negotiations of pay.

Myth 2. Women aren't being given as good of health-care as men

The evidence seems to point otherwise. Women have a much longer life-expectancy than men in the United States. Another interesting fact is that, although Breast and Prostate Cancer kill roughly the same amount of people, Breast Cancer Research gets about 700% more funding than does Prostate Cancer. It is possible that there is some health-care discrimination against women, but there's also a good amount against men that's not mentioned or downplayed.

Myth 3. Women aren't given the same opportunities for employment as men

Again, the evidence points to the contrary. Often businesses are actually interested in hiring more women due to tax-credit opportunities provided by the government. It's also mentioned that there are nearly no women in certain fields such as Construction, Coal Mining, ect. Yet the majority of these jobs are the most dangerous jobs on the planet. It's also downplayed that men make up an average of 93% of workplace related deaths due to the fields they dominate. And the safest occupations such as Secretaries and Receptionists are dominated by women by more than 90%.

These are just a few myths that are spread, there are many more, but I'm getting tired of writing. I'm not trying to say that there aren't any injustices against women, there are, but there are just as many injustices against men today that are downplayed primarily due to modern-day feminism.

For everyone quoting this and applauding, do you have any idea of the plight of women globally?

 

[Spoken]

equality in the work place should only be an issue in manual labor. If a woman can't carry as much or whatever, then she shouldn't get paid the same... but if it's a matter of intelligence or hard work? Then of course she should get paid the same. This is the concern for early feminism.
Second wave was more concerned with legal rights on sexuality, the way women were marketed, the assumed social roles, and reproductive rights.
Third wave says all of that is good stuff, but a lot of the issue is that these movements have universalized the 'female' struggle. Third wave is disinterest in any univocal understanding of what a woman is outside of biology, and pushes for a radical reform of all gender norms.

In my opinion, equality is a given in the work place (unless, as I mentioned, it's about manual labor). How women are viewed, marketed, and all of that jazz is clearly something worthy of social discussion, but, in my opinion, not political discussion.

I guess I just don't see what the big deal is... EXCEPT, of course, this is a male dominated forum talking about women's rights. It is rather ironic.

 

[panamaican]

The thing is that no two groups can be treated equally in every way. There will always be exceptions. That goes for race, gender, class, etc.

I don't understsand why there is this unattainable expectation for the male/female dynamic but the above fact is accepted in regards to other issues.

I don't either, it makes no sense.

You can talk with some of the most ardent supporters of feminist ideals but if a situation turns violent, they will position themselves behind the man for protection.

Another example of the internal dichotomy is the ongoing debate within feminist circles about the appropriate approach to the work/home life balance. When feminists are attacking each other over such a core issue, it's just evidence that their message doesn't line up with the desires of many of the women they claim to represent.

 

[BEER]

For everyone quoting this and applauding, do you have any idea of the plight of women globally?

This.

And if Deadred could write up the injustices to men, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Deadred2]

Thanks, I actually watched his presentation (the one he made in Toronto, with dozens of raging feminists at the door).

I didn't want you to feel like your work was ignored. :icon_chee

Many thanks friend, you have no clue how often that happens =D.

Above all else, I think it's important that we state the problems that are plaguing men as well as women and treat them equally and in order of importance. That is the core of feminism, women just want to be treated equally as men. However, the media has to come up with stories that sell, and oppression against men doesn't necessarily grab your attention as much as those against women or minorities.

 

[Memory**]

So, you completely disregarded the point I was making?

Her art work is seen by many feminists as misoginistic itself and criticized as self indulgent narcissistic and pornographic. She advocated women's interests which can't be assumed to mean equality. And advocating equality on the free market selling only to the richest most privileged people is a joke IMO.

 

[panamaican]

I think the reason this gets so twisted is because a good percentage of women don't embrace feminist ideals. There are still plenty of women who love the idea of being taken care of.

But female police officers, firefighters, and military veterans show that there are plenty of women out there to take the risks that society has forever thought meant for men.

Of course there are women out there in those fields but society's expectation is that outside of professional circles, the man should shoulder those risks.