Fedor's GnP was insane

[Jewish Lightning]

In their prior 6 fights before fighting stipe
Werdum - 6-0
Arlovski - 6-0
Overeem - 5-1
Jds - 3-3 (only losses to Cain and Overeem)

They were all ranked top 5.

It’s not just that they had names…….again, they would be top wins for any hw ever. Among the best wins of fedor’s career.

Let's look at the records of guys who were Stipes "best" wins after they lost to Stipe.

Werdum 4-4
JDS 3-4
Reem 6-4
AA - 9-8

If any of these guys were in their prime when they fought Stipe then how did they suddenly become .500 fighters after losing to him?

Stipe is a top 5-6 HW of all time and has some amazing wins on paper but there is zero evidence that suggests that he has beaten an all time great HW in their prime.

This is not the same as Fedor beating Nog and then after losing to Fedor Nog goes on and beats Cro Cop, Sergei, Barnett 2x, Werdum , Sylvia , Randy. It's clear that Nog was in his prime when Fedor smashed him because after that loss Nog was still dominant.

Not one HW Stipe beat who looks good on paper went on a dominant run after losing to Stipe. That says a lot.

Nog was in his 20s and 19-1 and never been stopped when Fedor beat him and still went on another great run after losing to Fedor.

Cro Cop was in his 20s and 16-2 when he fought Fedor and still went on another run after losing to Fedor.

AA was in his 20s and won 6 in a row coming into the Fedor fight with with wins over Werdum and stoppage wins over Nelson and Rothwell (whom no one at the time was stopping) and then after losing to Fedor still went on another run.

This is what it means to beat all time great HWs in their prime. Not one great HW Stipe beat went on a run after because they were old and past their prime.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

Yeah, I def agree it’s not easy to define. The way I’d look at it is, Arlovski moved to a new camp and made some specific changes to his game to counteract the problems he was having by aging and being out of prime. He then had some favorable matches (like Browne, who was way past it in the middle of a 1-5 run before retiring, or Schaub who was in the middle of a 2-4 run and one fight away from retiring), and Arlovski put together a nice late-career resurgence. Overeem likewise made a lot of changes to his game, Aldo did as well plus dropped a weight class.

But none of that changes when their prime was, in my view. Aldo is fighting well and may keep fighting well, but we are not witnessing prime Jose Aldo right now. Arlovski’s prime to me was maybe 2001-2012 or something, with his peak being like 2005-2009 or so. Like you said, it’s not easy to nail down exactly, but I think we can generally get close.
That’s how I think about primes anyway.

Great post 100% agree. The same posters who are unable to assess what prime means are the ones who tell you Fedor was in his prime in Strikeforce even though he had lost 3 in a row and was 6 years past his atheltic peak.

 

[kflo]

Let's look at the records of guys who were Stipes "best" wins after they lost to Stipe.

Werdum 4-4
JDS 3-4
Reem 6-4
AA - 9-8

If any of these guys were in their prime when they fought Stipe then how did they suddenly become .500 fighter after losing to him.

Stipe is a top 5-6 HW of all time and has some amazing wins on paper but there is zero evidence that suggests that he has beaten an all time great HW in their prime.

It's not the same as Fedor beating Nog only for Nog to go on and beat Cro Cop, Sergei, Barnett 2x, Werdum , Sylvia , Randy. It's clear that Nog was in his prime when Fedor smashed him because after that loss Nog was still dominant.

Not one HW Stipe beat who looks good on paper went on a dominant run after losing to Stipe. That says a lot.

Randleman never won a meaningful fight again (he went 2-8 after fedor). Coleman was done as a top fighter. Hunt lost 6 fights in a row (fedor was #2 of 6). Arlovski lost 4 straight. Timmay never won a meaningful fight again. Ogawa never won a fight again. Rogers never won a meaningful fight again.

It doesn’t invalidate them all.

Nog was a a great win. So was cro-cop. No one denies that. I don’t. And I consider fedor the goat hw.

But it’s silly to just dismiss wins against werdum, dc, overeem, jds, hunt. Those guys again, would be among the best wins of fedor’s career.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

Randleman never won a meaningful fight again (he went 2-8 after fedor). Coleman was done as a top fighter. Hunt lost 6 fights in a row (fedor was #2 of 6). Arlovski lost 4 straight. Timmay never won a meaningful fight again. Ogawa never won a fight again. Rogers never won a meaningful fight again.

It doesn’t invalidate them all.

Nog was a a great win. So was cro-cop. No one denies that. I don’t. And I consider fedor the goat hw.

But it’s silly to just dismiss wins against werdum, dc, overeem, jds, hunt. Those guys again, would be among the best wins of fedor’s career.

Randleman wasn't an all time great HW and neither were Sylvia or Rogers as I don't consider them Fedors best wins. Arlovski still went on another run after losing to Fedor which is why you rate that as a great win for Stipe.

My argument was that Stipe never beat an all time great HW while they were in their prime which is true. With that said Randleman was coming off a KO win over Mirko when Fedor beat him. That was similar to Randy fighting Gonzaga after he KOd Mirko.

Gonzaga didn't go on an amazing run after losing to Randy but going into the fight his confidence and momentum were surging and it was a dangerous fight. I'd say that was one of Randys best wins. The same can be said about Randleman going into the Fedor fight.

Stipes wins are still good and like I said he's a legitimate top 5-6 HW of all time but he hasn't beaten an all time great in their prime the way Fedor, Nog, Cain, JDS, DC and Werdum have. This isn't a knock on Stipe and partially not his fault.

 

[13Seconds]

Yeah Fedor had great ground 'n' pound and his hand speed was epic too so he could rain down the punches so fast. Fedors hand speed is the same as the very best top level LW and WW fighters, he could light you up without you even having a clue what was going on.

Todays modern 2022 HW's are in super slow speed compared, Fedors hand speed is in another star system

That's kinda pushing it lol. Yeah Fedor has fast hands but the same as the fastest WW/LW's?

 

[kflo]

Randleman wasn't an all time great HW. The argument was that Stipe nevet beat an all time great HW while they were in their prime. With that said Randleman was coming off a KO win over Mirko when Fedor beat him. That was similar to Randy fighting Gonzaga after he KOd Mirko. Gonzaga didn't go on an amazing run after losing to Randy but going into the fight his confidence and momentum were surging and it was a dangerous fight. I'd say that was one of Randys best wins. The same can be said about Randleman going into the Fedor fight.

Stipes wins are still good and like I said he's a legitimate top 5-6 HW of all time but he hasn't beaten an all time great in their prime the way Fedor, Nog, Cain, JDS, DC and Werdum have. This isn't a knock on Stipe and partially not his fault.

How many wins would you consider fedor has that are better than werdum, dc, overeem, jds?

And randleman was finished in his 2 fights prior to cro-cop in the division below. Gonzaga was an 8-1 HW with his only loss coming against werdum in his 3rd fight. They aren’t really comparable in what they were at the respective times.

 

[Cowboy Kurt Angle]

 

[Jewish Lightning]

How many wins would you consider fedor has that are better than werdum, dc, overeem, jds?

And randleman was finished in his 2 fights prior to cro-cop in the division below. Gonzaga was an 8-1 HW with his only loss coming against werdum in his 3rd fight. They aren’t really comparable in what they were at the respective times.

DC had back surgery and was a fat blob with 2.5 rounds of cardio when Stipe beat him and it was no coincidence he retired after losing to Stipe. It's a good win but someone who retires after losing isn't in their prime. Not even close.

Stipes win over Werdum was probably the closest he got to beating an all time great HW in their prime but Werdum was 39 and has went 4-4 since losing to Stipe.

JDS was a CTE fossil when Stipe finally beat him and has went 3-3 since that fight. Its no coincidence that when they met earlier in their careers that JDS beat Stipe not to mention JDS was already past his best days considering by this point he had knee surgery and suffered severe CTE beat downs to prime Cain.

Overeem was a 37 year old CTE fossil with 17 KO losses who has been a .500 fighter since losing to Stipe. Not a special win.

Again these are all good wins for Stipe and would have been good wins for Fedor or anyone for that matter but these wins to me don't rank above beating Nog, Mirko and Arlovksi in their 20s.

As far as Randleman and Gonzaga are concerned neither are all time great HWs but both were coming off division shaking, KO wins over Mirko coming into the Fedor/ Randy fights. You don't have to be a genius to understand they had lots of confidence and momentum which made them dangerous for Fedor and Randy.

 

[fatmanthenextbatman]

insane it was , but prime Nog had durability.

 

[HI SCOTT NEWMAN]

That's kinda pushing it lol. Yeah Fedor has fast hands but the same as the fastest WW/LW's?

Yes absoutley, very few WW/LW fighters have better hand speed than him. He can get off 7-8 punches in a blink, thats why he is so dangerous because his hand speed is insane, no HW's ever seen hand speed like that.

 

[Midget Boxer]