Fedor have never been wrestlef-d before

[That209]

Saku is one of the true pioneers of the sport, fought anyone regardless of weight and condition, he is truly mma personified. Fedor went unbeaten for 10 years in what was the toughest hw division back then (you and other people might not remember how highly regarded that pride division was ) , dominated like no other fighter back then . Gsp well dominated the toughest division in mma at the time, fought great competition, avenged all of his losses . All those guys have great cases for goat, personally my pick is gsp then saku and Fedor but you can argue it for any of those guys

I’m a fan of saku, believe me. I’ve always been a fan. He was one of the first real well rounded guys and had so many fun fights. Unfortunately, being a pioneer and being brave doesn’t make you a GOAT. Maybe in his time, but throughout all of MMA history at this point, I don’t consider him at all. Fedor yes, saku no. Fedor is on any GOAT list and for many he’s THE greatest.

Personally, I think this GOAT discussion is just dumb. There’s so many factors, so many traits certain fighters have that can put them near the top when skill wise they’re not actually that great, you know what I mean? Fedor was amazing, skill wise. Not only that but he was unbelievably dominant for the most part.

Then you have someone like Cain who was looking amazing but his career has been ruined from injuries (not saying Cain is goat). Skill wise, Cain was one of the best we’ve ever seen for a HW and was insanely dominant. He lost unlike fedor, but that’s the game. Although Cain fought a lot of the same guys.. he beat ‘prime’ JDS.

To me, the issue with Jr. is he never evolved. But back before he was ever beaten in the UFC n knocking everybody out, Cain’s wins are incredible. Had he never been plagued with injuries, I definitely could’ve seen him ruling the division for a good while. Cain never really got to prove himself against a lot of great opponents but skill wise I believe he’s one of the best HW’s ever, also one of he most effective and that’s truly what matters in the end.

I put GSP at the top. His record is amazing considering the level of competition he faced. his skill, fight IQ (best ever), athletic ability, etc, he’s above everybody. People can say he’s a cheater but he was never caught unlike Silva and Jones. I’m not a huge fan of GSPs fighting style but I can appreciate how good he is. I understand what he’s doing in there and it’s not easy. Sometimes It’s easier to go for the KO and sub than it is to pick your opponent apart for 25 minutes. Some won’t believe that but they’re dumb n can fuck off.

 

[Ilovepizza]

I’m a fan of saku, believe me. I’ve always been a fan. He was one of the first real well rounded guys and had so many fun fights. Unfortunately, being a pioneer and being brave doesn’t make you a GOAT. Maybe in his time, but throughout all of MMA history at this point, I don’t consider him at all. Fedor yes, saku no. Fedor is on any GOAT list and for many he’s THE greatest.

Personally, I think this GOAT discussion is just dumb. There’s so many factors, so many traits certain fighters have that can put them near the top when skill wise they’re not actually that great, you know what I mean? Fedor was amazing, skill wise. Not only that but he was unbelievably dominant for the most part.

Then you have someone like Cain who was looking amazing but his career has been ruined from injuries (not saying Cain is goat). Skill wise, Cain was one of the best we’ve ever seen for a HW and was insanely dominant. He lost unlike fedor, but that’s the game. Although Cain fought a lot of the same guys.. he beat ‘prime’ JDS.

To me, the issue with Jr. is he never evolved. But back before he was ever beaten in the UFC n knocking everybody out, Cain’s wins are incredible. Had he never been plagued with injuries, I definitely could’ve seen him ruling the division for a good while. Cain never really got to prove himself against a lot of great opponents but skill wise I believe he’s one of the best HW’s ever, also one of he most effective and that’s truly what matters in the end.

I put GSP at the top. His record is amazing considering the level of competition he faced. his skill, fight IQ (best ever), athletic ability, etc, he’s above everybody. People can say he’s a cheater but he was never caught unlike Silva and Jones. I’m not a huge fan of GSPs fighting style but I can appreciate how good he is. I understand what he’s doing in there and it’s not easy. Sometimes It’s easier to go for the KO and sub than it is to pick your opponent apart for 25 minutes. Some won’t believe that but they’re dumb n can fuck off.

 

[That209]

These gifs are so overused. They’re just lame now. That post wasn’t meant for you anyway.

 

[Ilovepizza]

These gifs are so overused. They’re just lame now. That post wasn’t meant for you anyway.

 

[locust rising]

Awww look, a wannabe mod

What a loser LOL

 

[tramendous]

fedor tossed a 265 pound frank mir. Sonnen gonna get rag dolled.

 

[Haj01]

Chael is just asking to be armbarred...

 

[markg171]

Wrestlers tend to age a lot better than someone who relies on their explosiveness, speed and reflexes

That's just pure nonsense popularized by Joe Rogan. Wrestlers rely extremely heavily on their explosiveness, speed and reflexes.

That's like saying sugar ray leonard isn't one of the best cause he lost to hector macho camacho....losing when you are totally shot and well past your prime doesn't take away from their prime...roy jones jr. has lost. but in his prime, nobody alive could even touch him...same with fedor...if fedor loses to sonnon, which he might, doesn't in anyways take away from him being the goat heavyweight of all time.

The prime argument is ridiculous. It's the overall career that determines GOAT. If you do shit in the end of your career it doesn't suddenly magically not affect your career. Nor can you have the reverse where if you do well it suddenly does count towards your career. You can't just cherry pick like that.

EVERYTHING you do in your career counts towards your legacy. It's up to you to make a strong enough case across everything, not in a set period.

Actually for those who don't research their fighters...

Dan actually started taking TRT right before his fight with Wanderlei, and he continued on it for years until it was banned, and he was damn well juiced against Fedor. However, Hendo has always had power in that right hand, and it is no surprise that a shot from the back like that buckled Fedor while he was past his prime.

Don't forget what TRT does to one's body. Vitor looked best during his TRT run, and that would not have had happened without the drug.

It's funny how you talk about doing one's research and then equate Dan and Vitor's "TRT" use...

• Dan was always within his limits which were kept low-normal and confirmed by Kizer. He never got higher than low-normal levels of testosterone. That is TRT.
• Vitor failed a drug test for elevated levels of testosterone. That is just taking testosterone like any other steroid user.

There is a very big difference between the two, and it's witch hunts like yours that ruined TRT. TRT was only designed to bring a fighter back to their age group's normal levels, which doesn't give anybody an "advantage" over their opponent if their opponent has (presumably) normal levels too. Anybody going higher than that was not on TRT, they were just taking steroids like anybody else to go ABOVE normal levels.

Vitor looked like an animal precisely because he was going above his TUE. Hence the failed tests. Dan was not "damn well juiced", he was on the low-normal end for a guy his age and hence the zero failed tests.

 

[Ever Watchful]

Never looked juiced ? LOL
You must not be having following MMA for a long time have you ? ( I'm serious no troll here )

Dan was once know as Decision Dan Henderson even in PRIDE, but once he started TRT he had new muscles popping left and right and his upper back and yoke thickened noticeably at over 40y/old ( not to Lesnar proportions ofc ).. Then he started to manhandle and knock people out left and right out of nowhere with his right ( and hook ) soon to be known as H-Bomb ...
And then when he had to stop everything... no comment... his performances speak for themselves

Uhhhh wasn't he called Decision Dan because he won some decisions that maybe should have gone the other way?

 

[Final Say]

As they should, his legacy has nothing to do with this part of his career

He can win by hadoken he can lose in some embarassing way, only retards will use this fight as a meter for anything

Same for hendo huh

 

[JustOnce]

That's just pure nonsense popularized by Joe Rogan. Wrestlers rely extremely heavily on their explosiveness, speed and reflexes.



The prime argument is ridiculous. It's the overall career that determines GOAT. If you do shit in the end of your career it doesn't suddenly magically not affect your career. Nor can you have the reverse where if you do well it suddenly does count towards your career. You can't just cherry pick like that.

EVERYTHING you do in your career counts towards your legacy. It's up to you to make a strong enough case across everything, not in a set period.



It's funny how you talk about doing one's research and then equate Dan and Vitor's "TRT" use...

• Dan was always within his limits which were kept low-normal and confirmed by Kizer. He never got higher than low-normal levels of testosterone. That is TRT.
• Vitor failed a drug test for elevated levels of testosterone. That is just taking testosterone like any other steroid user.

There is a very big difference between the two, and it's witch hunts like yours that ruined TRT. TRT was only designed to bring a fighter back to their age group's normal levels, which doesn't give anybody an "advantage" over their opponent if their opponent has (presumably) normal levels too. Anybody going higher than that was not on TRT, they were just taking steroids like anybody else to go ABOVE normal levels.

Vitor looked like an animal precisely because he was going above his TUE. Hence the failed tests. Dan was not "damn well juiced", he was on the low-normal end for a guy his age and hence the zero failed tests.

Not half as much as in MMA and compared to strikers

 

[bigconan]

That's just pure nonsense popularized by Joe Rogan. Wrestlers rely extremely heavily on their explosiveness, speed and reflexes.



The prime argument is ridiculous. It's the overall career that determines GOAT. If you do shit in the end of your career it doesn't suddenly magically not affect your career. Nor can you have the reverse where if you do well it suddenly does count towards your career. You can't just cherry pick like that.

EVERYTHING you do in your career counts towards your legacy. It's up to you to make a strong enough case across everything, not in a set period.



It's funny how you talk about doing one's research and then equate Dan and Vitor's "TRT" use...

• Dan was always within his limits which were kept low-normal and confirmed by Kizer. He never got higher than low-normal levels of testosterone. That is TRT.
• Vitor failed a drug test for elevated levels of testosterone. That is just taking testosterone like any other steroid user.

There is a very big difference between the two, and it's witch hunts like yours that ruined TRT. TRT was only designed to bring a fighter back to their age group's normal levels, which doesn't give anybody an "advantage" over their opponent if their opponent has (presumably) normal levels too. Anybody going higher than that was not on TRT, they were just taking steroids like anybody else to go ABOVE normal levels.

Vitor looked like an animal precisely because he was going above his TUE. Hence the failed tests. Dan was not "damn well juiced", he was on the low-normal end for a guy his age and hence the zero failed tests.

wow...how old are you? 14. Joe lewis, one of the greatest heavyweight boxers of all time, was pretty much unbeatable in his prime...so, does it count against him, when rocky marciano destroyed him and knocked him out of the ring? of course not...your argument is retarded....so, let me get this straight Ali, who in his prime, nobody could even touch...never mind beat...he was lightning fast, could take a great shot, great cardio, but according to your way of thinking, he losing his later fights effects his overall career. do you not realize how incredible stupid and retarded that makes you sound? all fighters get old and lose...if they stay around long enough... roy jones jr, in his prime, nobody alive, ever could beat that guy...nobody...maybe only sugar ray robinson...but that's it....Jones lost quite a few fights near the end of his career...by your insanely retarded logic, when he is so far past his prime, it's scary, those fights count in his overall legacy?

Ummmm, no they don't....they count on his record, but every great fighter has a PRIME...where they are considered at their best...do you really think when people think of Ali, they think of him getting destroyed by larry holms or roy jones getting ko'd by some bum. of course not...cause we all know, they are and were well past their primes....

YOu have alot to learn my young little buddy...cause you know very very little...

 

[markg171]

Dan was once know as Decision Dan Henderson even in PRIDE, but once he started TRT he had new muscles popping left and right and his upper back and yoke thickened noticeably at over 40y/old ( not to Lesnar proportions ofc ).. Then he started to manhandle and knock people out left and right out of nowhere with his right ( and hook ) soon to be known as H-Bomb ...
And then when he had to stop everything... no comment... his performances speak for themselves

Dan was on a 3 fight losing streak when TRT was banned lol.

Dan then went 3-4 after TRT was banned, with all 3 wins by vicious KO. Many think he should've gone 4-3 as they feel he beat Bisping, who he also battered around the cage too. Cormier was simply a horrible matchup, Gegard's a great striker with much improved TDD defence, and Vitor just blitzed him like he used to.

The biggest difference that actually occurred in Hendo's career is when he injured his knee leading up to Jones. After he came back he was nowhere near as mobile as he'd previously been, and that was visible in both the TRT and non TRT era.

 

[markg171]

Ummmm, no they don't....they count on his record, but every great fighter has a PRIME...where they are considered at their best...do you really think when people think of Ali, they think of him getting destroyed by larry holms or roy jones getting ko'd by some bum. of course not...cause we all know, they are and were well past their primes....

What you do throughout your entire career definitely counts towards your legacy. I mean, are we just supposed to pretend that GSP and DC's recent title wins don't count because they didn't occur in their prime? Those were huge for their legacies, yet you think they don't matter as they didn't occur in their prime?

If you perform shit at the start or tail end of your career of course it matters. They're there, they were opportunities for you to win. You are being judged against your peers, who might not have those same circumstances affecting their own legacies. If two guys have similar great runs then of course the guy who does better at the start or end (or both) of his career is the greater fighter than the one losing to bums during that same period.

What they did at their best of course is the primary determination of greatness, but it's silly to say that their overall career doesn't affect their standing when it absolutely does.

 

[BoogerDawson]

Fedor by triangle choke.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

Well, Sonnen is 41 and Fedor is shot but he got a background in grappling, and a lot more power in his punches and better subs. But Fedor is so shot he can get KOed by sonnen too and who knows about his cardio? Maybe he will get tired and lose a decision, Sonnen has good cardio.

 

[markg171]

Not half as much as in MMA and compared to strikers

Lol how are you supposed to land a level change or shot if you're no longer explosive and quick?

If you want to argue that Greco-Roman wrestlers might age better that's one thing, and that's the distinction Rogan was failing to make when he was universally declaring that wrestlers were still around at higher ages because wrestlers age better. While talking about Randy and Hendo, who are Greco-Roman. And on drugs.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

Fedor started losing when he was 33. It is NOT the age that is fucking him over, wish it was...

Russians age faster I guess, really, look at them, not just fighters they all look like crap at 30. Too much alcohol.

 

[josh345]

I think if its a 3 rounder, sonnen continues the PRIDE ass kicking tour. war sonnen.

 

[JustOnce]

Lol how are you supposed to land a level change or shot if you're no longer explosive and quick?

If you want to argue that Greco-Roman wrestlers might age better that's one thing, and that's the distinction Rogan was failing to make when he was universally declaring that wrestlers were still around at higher ages because wrestlers age better. While talking about Randy and Hendo, who are Greco-Roman. And on drugs.

And you leave out Sonnen

lol