"Fedor fought easy competition in Japan"

HitMachine said:
Time to give the boys a free history lesson, as it appears that there is a lot of new Conor era UFC fans who don't know mma history.

Let's be clear, between 2000 and 2006, Pride FC was the premier mma organisation and UFC was not even close to being on the same level. That is why Dana White was trying to co-promote with Pride, so he could build UFC brand. In 2003, he took UFC's biggest star Chuck Liddell to compete in Pride Final Conflict, eventually losing to Rampage Jackson (Rampage mauled him with brutal body shots ground and pound). Dana White who was watching ride side in Tokyo, was almost in tears as he knew the UFC was in debt to the tune of tens of millions and his biggest star was dominated really bad. The corner threw in the towel to stop the violence. To date, it's probably one of the most brutal fights I've witnessed.

Pride FC was the premier product with massive production shows backed by DSE and heavily funded by Fuji and other investors. They use to do a massive pre-show event before each show and it was amazing to watch. The fights would pull huge numbers, Pride shockwave 2002 for example had over 70,000 people in attendance. At the time UFC would have around 5000-10,000 people attending per show. Big difference. The fighters were also getting paid much bigger amounts this has been confirmed by many fighters who fought in both promotions.

UFC was very close to folding with over 40m in debt and in 2005 they survived as they got a big break from TUF1. This is what saved the UFC. If they had not got the Spike deal, I doubt the UFC would have continued. UFC managed to clear their debts as the TV show fueled the PPV shows.

Few years later in 2007, Pride folded because of the yakuza scandal leading to Fuji to pull out of the TV deal, this left Pride FC in a tough spot and they sold the company to the UFC for 70 million. At the time, Fedor was the man. He was the face of mma. UFC fighters were trying to leave the UFC to get a fight with Fedor, Randy Couture and Dana had a massive battle over it. Randy wanted to leave the UFC to go fight Fedor, and Dana took legal action against Randy to stop it. Ex UFC champs Sylvia and Arlovski both went to Affliction to fight Fedor, both were KO'd.

Ok, so what happened next? In 2009 Fedor went to Strikeforce because he got a better deal with Strikeforce, it's as simple as that. Fedor talked about how Dana lied about the numbers that he came out with in public, 30m for 6 fights or whatever Dana said at the time was not true. Fedor even said that M1 co-promotion was not a requirement, but they just needed a deal that was competitive with Strikeforce and it never came.

In any case, Strikeforce had the better HW roster anyway. Strikeforce had Overeem, Barnett, Cormier, Werdum, Bigfoot, Arlovski and many others.. UFC had Lesnar, Mir, Carwin, and Velasquez.

Fedor was essentially undefeated with 31 wins with only one loss (cut which was stopped by doctor in a fight he later avenged) from 2000 - 2009 was completely unheard of at the time. Fedor was very small heavyweight but completely outclassed his opponents with his technique. This is why he was and is considered the GOAT. At the time, he had like 6 wins against former UFC champions (Today it's 9 UFC champions). So if Fedor was fighting cans, were the 6 UFC champions a bunch of cans? Ok so the UFC had a bunch of cans as champions, got it. See the flaw in your logic Conor era UFC fan boys?

Now, let's go back to Pride. I have no idea where this narrative has come from where people think that the competition in Japan was easier. I've compiled a list of Pride FC fighters, I'm sure I missed a whole heap of fighters.. but I'm just trying to make a point here that Pride had the superior fighters in the early and mid 2000s. All the big names were signed to Pride, not UFC. The UFC only surpassed Pride when it folded in 2007.

So, it's safe to say that heavyweights who stayed with the UFC were ducking Fedor by fighting easier competition in the UFC. The list below of Pride fighters is much better than the UFC had at the time.

Pride FC fighters:
Alexander Emelianenko
Alistair Overeem
Anderson Silva*
Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira
Chuck Liddell*
Dan Henderson
Don Frye
Fabrício Werdum
Fedor Emelianenko
Gary Goodridge
Gegard Mousasi
Gilbert Yvel
Hayato Sakurai
Heath Herring
Hector Lombard
Igor Vovchanchyn
James Thompson
Josh Barnett*
Josh Thomson*
Kazushi Sakuraba
Kazuyuki Fujita
Ken Shamrock*
Kevin Randleman*
Mark Coleman
Mark Hunt
Mark Kerr
Mauricio Rua
Melvin Manhoef
Mirko Filipović
Murilo Rua
Paulo Filho
Quinton Jackson
Ricardo Arona
Renato Sobral
Ricco Rodriguez*
Robbie Lawler*
Royce Gracie*
Semmy Schilt
Sergei Kharitonov
Shinya Aoki
Takanori Gomi
Valentijn Overeem
Vitor Belfort*
Wanderlei Silva

* Had fights in both UFC and Pride between 2000 - 2006.
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fedor point.gif
 
JKS said:
In fairness, most of these threads by Fedor fans are in response to criticism of him and his legacy. Every so often someone in the media, either a fighter or journalist say something to criticize Fedor. This week it was Daniel Cormier who came out and said his legacy was a myth. Which triggers a series of threads going back and forth. If critics are out there talking negatively about him, his fans have the right to respond back.

And it's pretty much this pattern all the time where it's initiated by someone being critical of Fedor.
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Thank your for your reasonable and fair response. I wasn’t expecting such in this thread.

And by the way, Fedor is arguably the best HW, I don’t even deny that, I just think HW MMA sucks ass.
 
Fedor stormed through the best division in the world then beat up some UFC former champs in other divisions. 10 year unbeaten streak. A record that will never be matched in HW.
 
AndrewGolota48 said:
Pride had the much better HW division in his prime era and he also wound up finishing the two marquee UFC heavyweights of the time in Sylvia and Arlovski. He was also supposed to fight Barnett and couldn't through no fault of his own.
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That Barnett fight would have been something else. I like Barnett's chances in the fight but think Fedor probably would have been truly tested for the first time as he made all those scary ass fighters look like little boys wrestling with their poppa.
 
HitMachine said:
Time to give the boys a free history lesson, as it appears that there is a lot of new Conor era UFC fans who don't know mma history.

Let's be clear, between 2000 and 2006, Pride FC was the premier mma organisation and UFC was not even close to being on the same level. That is why Dana White was trying to co-promote with Pride, so he could build UFC brand. In 2003, he took UFC's biggest star Chuck Liddell to compete in Pride Final Conflict, eventually losing to Rampage Jackson (Rampage mauled him with brutal body shots ground and pound). Dana White who was watching ride side in Tokyo, was almost in tears as he knew the UFC was in debt to the tune of tens of millions and his biggest star was dominated really bad. The corner threw in the towel to stop the violence. To date, it's probably one of the most brutal fights I've witnessed.

Pride FC was the premier product with massive production shows backed by DSE and heavily funded by Fuji and other investors. They use to do a massive pre-show event before each show and it was amazing to watch. The fights would pull huge numbers, Pride shockwave 2002 for example had over 70,000 people in attendance. At the time UFC would have around 5000-10,000 people attending per show. Big difference. The fighters were also getting paid much bigger amounts this has been confirmed by many fighters who fought in both promotions.

UFC was very close to folding with over 40m in debt and in 2005 they survived as they got a big break from TUF1. This is what saved the UFC. If they had not got the Spike deal, I doubt the UFC would have continued. UFC managed to clear their debts as the TV show fueled the PPV shows.

Few years later in 2007, Pride folded because of the yakuza scandal leading to Fuji to pull out of the TV deal, this left Pride FC in a tough spot and they sold the company to the UFC for 70 million. At the time, Fedor was the man. He was the face of mma. UFC fighters were trying to leave the UFC to get a fight with Fedor, Randy Couture and Dana had a massive battle over it. Randy wanted to leave the UFC to go fight Fedor, and Dana took legal action against Randy to stop it. Ex UFC champs Sylvia and Arlovski both went to Affliction to fight Fedor, both were KO'd.

Ok, so what happened next? In 2009 Fedor went to Strikeforce because he got a better deal with Strikeforce, it's as simple as that. Fedor talked about how Dana lied about the numbers that he came out with in public, 30m for 6 fights or whatever Dana said at the time was not true. Fedor even said that M1 co-promotion was not a requirement, but they just needed a deal that was competitive with Strikeforce and it never came.

In any case, Strikeforce had the better HW roster anyway. Strikeforce had Overeem, Barnett, Cormier, Werdum, Bigfoot, Arlovski and many others.. UFC had Lesnar, Mir, Carwin, and Velasquez.

Fedor was essentially undefeated with 31 wins with only one loss (cut which was stopped by doctor in a fight he later avenged) from 2000 - 2009 was completely unheard of at the time. Fedor was very small heavyweight but completely outclassed his opponents with his technique. This is why he was and is considered the GOAT. At the time, he had like 6 wins against former UFC champions (Today it's 9 UFC champions). So if Fedor was fighting cans, were the 6 UFC champions a bunch of cans? Ok so the UFC had a bunch of cans as champions, got it. See the flaw in your logic Conor era UFC fan boys?

Now, let's go back to Pride. I have no idea where this narrative has come from where people think that the competition in Japan was easier. I've compiled a list of Pride FC fighters, I'm sure I missed a whole heap of fighters.. but I'm just trying to make a point here that Pride had the superior fighters in the early and mid 2000s. All the big names were signed to Pride, not UFC. The UFC only surpassed Pride when it folded in 2007.

So, it's safe to say that heavyweights who stayed with the UFC were ducking Fedor by fighting easier competition in the UFC. The list below of Pride fighters is much better than the UFC had at the time.

Pride FC fighters:
Alexander Emelianenko
Alistair Overeem
Anderson Silva*
Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira
Chuck Liddell*
Dan Henderson
Don Frye
Fabrício Werdum
Fedor Emelianenko
Gary Goodridge
Gegard Mousasi
Gilbert Yvel
Hayato Sakurai
Heath Herring
Hector Lombard
Igor Vovchanchyn
James Thompson
Josh Barnett*
Josh Thomson*
Kazushi Sakuraba
Kazuyuki Fujita
Ken Shamrock*
Kevin Randleman*
Mark Coleman
Mark Hunt
Mark Kerr
Mauricio Rua
Melvin Manhoef
Mirko Filipović
Murilo Rua
Paulo Filho
Quinton Jackson
Ricardo Arona
Renato Sobral
Ricco Rodriguez*
Robbie Lawler*
Royce Gracie*
Semmy Schilt
Sergei Kharitonov
Shinya Aoki
Takanori Gomi
Valentijn Overeem
Vitor Belfort*
Wanderlei Silva

* Had fights in both UFC and Pride between 2000 - 2006.
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Well done my friend, but have one small thing. Cormier was not in Strikeforce when Fedor signed. No biggie though.

But I do have a thought on why some discredit PRIDE a lot, and I would like your take. Their champions fought frequently in nontitle fights against lesser competition. Why was Fedor fighting TK (love him, but well past his prime) and Zuluzhino? These were fun fights but why were they even happening? Fedor is probably the HW GOAT, but he did have some silly fights in the middle of his run.
 
My first live mma fight in person was Fedor/Sylvia for Affliction, just to show you how much a fan I was of him early on. I went out of my way to see it and it was amazing, Fedor got me into this sport and was my idol.

That said, I was here when the Fedor/UFC was popping off when everyone left Pride and it's not a fact that Fedor wanted the most competitive offer and UFC shorted him. They threw the books towards him because they had Lesnar/Fedor in the chamber. I hate how history can just rewrite itself to fit whatever narrative people say fit. UFC went hard to get Fedor and failed throwing whatever money they could to get him. Every other Pride name crossed over pretty much besides Fedor. For Fedor they had Brock which would've sold so much. More than Fedor/Brett Rogers in Strikeforce.

End of the day we'll never know the truth between UFC and Fedor, because they legally can't share what happened exactly. You can say anyone is lying, but I trust UFC to chase money and Fedor was red hot at the time. Considering they were paying Hunt like 500k a match, they had old Pride contracts and Fedor didn't want it and didn't accept the increase.

People ride Fedor like an imaginary unbeatable figure, it's just so bizarre. Personally I think he was great for his era, but once he ran into wrestlers he couldn't armbar off his back he was getting in trouble. If Bigfoot did that, then I think Brock would've done it easier.
 
fedorthegoat777 said:
Fedor stormed through the best division in the world then beat up some UFC former champs in other divisions. 10 year unbeaten streak. A record that will never be matched in HW.
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Pride HW was far from the best division in the world. It was clearly not even close to being the best division in Pride. There's a reason Fedor never bothered even making LHW despite being a large MW in size.
 
JBJ was here said:
Pride HW was far from the best division in the world. It was clearly not even close to being the best division in Pride. There's a reason Fedor never bothered even making LHW despite being a large MW in size.
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Pride was the best division in the world at that time. It had the best heavyweight fighters.
 
This is only a debate in 2025 for people who didn't even know what MMA stood for in the 2000s. It's a non-discussion and just exposes how limited one's knowledge on MMA history is if they're saying this.

PRIDE: Fedor, Big Nog, Barnett, Mirko, Coleman, Sergei, Randleman, Aleks, Herring, Hunt, Werdum, Semmy, Alistair, Igor, Fujita, Kerr, Frye, Yoshida, Ibragim, Goodridge, Waterman, Valentijin, Sperry, Zentsov, Ogawa, Atajev, Yvel, Kohsaka, Enson, Kondo, Assuerio, Erikson, Thompson, Nastula, Barreto

UFC: Couture, Arlovski, Sylvia, Murr, Monson, Pedro, Buentello, Eilers, Gan, Freeman, Marcio, Telligman, Janitor, Hoffman, Pete Williams, Vera

Then you had Ricco who was a tweener between both orgs in that time period. Randy Couture was the best UFC HW in that era and lower level PRIDE HWs like Inoue and Valentijin were finishing him. Not to mention Barnett stopping him for the UFC HW title before he left for Japan. Couture was one of the biggest stars and claimed the UFC LHW/HW titles and he would have been just another guy and done poorly in PRIDE's LHW/HW divisions especially with the ring used there. The cage favored his style much more.

In the late 2000s the fighters in

Affliction/Strikeforce: Fedor, Werdum, DC, Reem, Barnett, Sergei, Sylvia, Arlovski, Rogers, Bigfoot, Rothwell, Monson, Rizzo, Del Rosario, Lavar, Yvel, Mo, Buentello, Shawn Jordan, Cole

UFC - JDS, Cain, Nog, Couture, Mirko, Bork, Murr, Gonzaga, Carwin, Hunt, Kongo, Struve, Schaub, Roy, Barry

UFC didn't have the best HW division until the Strikeforce merge in 2011 and that's just the facts for anyone who actually followed MMA.
 
Tweak896 said:
My first live mma fight in person was Fedor/Sylvia for Affliction, just to show you how much a fan I was of him early on. I went out of my way to see it and it was amazing, Fedor got me into this sport and was my idol.

That said, I was here when the Fedor/UFC was popping off when everyone left Pride and it's not a fact that Fedor wanted the most competitive offer and UFC shorted him. They threw the books towards him because they had Lesnar/Fedor in the chamber. I hate how history can just rewrite itself to fit whatever narrative people say fit. UFC went hard to get Fedor and failed throwing whatever money they could to get him. Every other Pride name crossed over pretty much besides Fedor. For Fedor they had Brock which would've sold so much. More than Fedor/Brett Rogers in Strikeforce.

End of the day we'll never know the truth between UFC and Fedor, because they legally can't share what happened exactly. You can say anyone is lying, but I trust UFC to chase money and Fedor was red hot at the time. Considering they were paying Hunt like 500k a match, they had old Pride contracts and Fedor didn't want it and didn't accept the increase.

People ride Fedor like an imaginary unbeatable figure, it's just so bizarre. Personally I think he was great for his era, but once he ran into wrestlers he couldn't armbar off his back he was getting in trouble. If Bigfoot did that, then I think Brock would've done it easier.
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Fedor didn't sign because of his management and M-1 demanding co-promotion, which is an absurd request and should get anyone making it laughed out of the room
 
I like Fedor as a person. Never can be a fan of him as sports institution cause Mirko lost.
 
@HitMachine

Threads like these is why Fedor legacy is always in questioned

Fedor was not the smallest HW, Lol thats a myth. His best wins in PrideFC are Noguiera who a Fedor was heavier than and only a one inch difference in reach, Noguiera only had height on a Emelianenko. And Mirko who Fedor weight more and had a longer reach. Both Noguiera and CroCop only had height advantage by 2-3”.

Arlovski, Sylvia and Schilt were the only skilled notable fighters in MMA he gave up size to.

The rest of his opppnenets were a mix match of sizes but a significant skill disadvantage and experience disadvantage they gave up to Fedor,

Strikeforce having the better HW Division is a myth.

Strikeforce had Overeem, Werdum, Barnett, Cormier, Kharitinov, BigFoot and Arlovski and you could add Rogers but he is not a very good fighter, peopled only pumped him up because of his quick KO of Arlovski, which you could say was luck. Why do I say that? because Rogers never won against anyone in Top 10, let alone Top 50 maybe even 100 again in his career.

UFC had Mir, Gonzaga, JDS, Couture, Lesnar, Noguiera, Cro Cop, Carwin & Hunt, Velasquez.

Fedor had an amazing career and is to me, the HW GOAT. GOAT in MMA? I disagree. His career is already amazing, the extra little lies and skewing of certain aspects of him and circumstances around his career is unnecessary.

It’s very telling thar out of all the GOAT candidates, Fedor is the only one from a handful of his fans constantly having to resort to creating lies and or having s double standard with it comes to him, you don’t or rarely see it with the likes of Aldo, GSP, Jones and Silva. Only Fedor.
 
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HHJ said:
Also stop trying to get out of banning people, as mod I expect you to absolutley DESTROY these nonbelievers with hatred and persecution. They should mod me and together we could fuck this shit up.


Vader-Cloud-City.jpg
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<6>
Thats some borderline Nazi draconian shit.
 
DougieJones said:
Fedor didn't sign because of his management and M-1 demanding co-promotion, which is an absurd request and should get anyone making it laughed out of the room
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According to the Fedor fans, Fedor signed with Strikeforce because they had better HW Division…. Only notable fighters at the time of Fedor’s signing with Strikeforce was Werdum, Arlovski, Rogers & Overeem. The Likes of Bigfoot made his Strikeforce debut on the same card as Fedor vs Rogers and Cormier who just had first bout in MMA a few months prior was not even a blimp on Fedors radar. Fedor essentially signed to Strikeforce to fight Werdum, Overeem, Rogers or rematch Arlovski. The Strikeforce HW Grand Prix wasnt until a few years later and most of the Hewvyweights weren’t acquired a year or so after a Fedor signed with Strikeforce. Fedors management signed with Strikeforce because they had no where else to go and Scott Coker is a gullible idiot.
 
Fedor was a GD man. Say what you want I watched that man survive a break fall to kill everyone posting here. He’s might not be your #1 but he’s on the mountain.
He is him.
Enjoy greatness while you were so privileged to witness it.
 
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