FBI raids office of Michael Cohen, personal attorney to Donald Trump

[waiguoren]

They were bending over backwards making things up about McCabe's political affiliation up to get McCabe fired (we still haven't seen the IG report on that firing), and you have Trump supporters eating up stories about secret societies in the FBI (even peddled by GOP congressman and senators) and conspiracy theories about a deep state to explain away Republicans like Comey, Rosenstein, and Mueller (and even Sessions). It reminds me of when the Italian Mob and their shills tried to paint any investigation into the mob as discrimination again Italians. It is pure and simple bullshit to try to keep illegal activity from being investigated.

I was with you until you mentioned illegal activity. Which specific illegal activity is being covered up? If you don't know, then how can you act so certain that this supposed activity occurred?

If Manafort was toast regardless, why would he have been selected in 2016 to take over Trump's campaign and the republican convention?

Most likely because Trump was sloppy/lazy in his hiring. There are already multiple examples of that.

I think it is pretty clear that the Mueller investigation changed things for him, especially with Mueller getting Gates to flip.

That could be true, but I think it would be a testament to Mueller's skill/competence rather than to the necessity of a special counsel investigation into alleged links between the Trump campaign and the Russian government.

 

[waiguoren]

Didn't read whole thread, but if attorney-client privilege is not afforded to the POTUS, well, it sure as hell isn't going to be afforded any of us when it matters to us. Seems like a stretch and getting into shit that isn't "Russia"-related.

I don't know that this is the precedent we want to set for how we treat POTUS going forward.

It's not clear to me that attorney-client privilege is relevant here. It seems (I stress: we don't know yet) that Cohen is under attack for his $130,000 personal payment to Stormy Daniels. The prosecutors will attempt to claim that this was an in-kind contribution to the Trump campaign. Seems like a big stretch to me and it's hard for me to imagine the government winning that case. But it could be a nice excuse to dig through the president's personal business.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

It's the difference between a "prosecutor" and and "investigator". These are totally separate jobs, yet Mueller is tasked with both. A prosecutor's job is to charge criminals. A prosecutor who doesn't charge criminals is a failure.

Have to disagree here.

Prosecutors have high prosecution rates because they only charge those they think they can convict.

This always comes up in threads where people try to point to conviction rates and grand jury indictment rates that prosecutors are at some sort of an advantage.

If a prosecutor charges you it's because they think they can convict.

They will not bring forward a case they think they can't win. A failed prosecution is a HUGE black eye.

 

[ScottE]

Didn't read whole thread, but if attorney-client privilege is not afforded to the POTUS, well, it sure as hell isn't going to be afforded any of us when it matters to us. Seems like a stretch and getting into shit that isn't "Russia"-related.

I don't know that this is the precedent we want to set for how we treat POTUS going forward.

I don't think you have a strong understanding of attorney client privilege beyond hearing the term used on TV.

It is not an overarching blanket.

 

[PHATV]

It's not clear to me that attorney-client privilege is relevant here. It seems (I stress: we don't know yet) that Cohen is under attack for his $130,000 personal payment to Stormy Daniels. The prosecutors will attempt to claim that this was an in-kind contribution to the Trump campaign. Seems like a big stretch to me and it's hard for me to imagine the government winning that case. But it could be a nice excuse to dig through the president's personal business.

A billionaire philanderer has a personal attorney who is also a "fixer" and given broad authority to do his job. $130,000 to keep that woman quiet and protect the Don so Melania (or others) didn't find out about his one-night stand would be within said authority.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Didn't read whole thread, but if attorney-client privilege is not afforded to the POTUS, well, it sure as hell isn't going to be afforded any of us when it matters to us. Seems like a stretch and getting into shit that isn't "Russia"-related.

I don't know that this is the precedent we want to set for how we treat POTUS going forward.

This post is pretty embarrassing and am example of why you should read the thread.

Attorney-client privilege doesn't exist if it's covering up a crime.

This is being handled by the FBI and SDNY because it doesn't seem to involve Russia so Mueller passed it on to the proper legal channels.

Also this went through a rigorous warrant procedure.

 

[PHATV]

What, pray tell, would the "crime" be in this matter?

 

[HereticBD]

Didn't read whole thread, but if attorney-client privilege is not afforded to the POTUS, well, it sure as hell isn't going to be afforded any of us when it matters to us. Seems like a stretch and getting into shit that isn't "Russia"-related.

It's a blatant overreach. Mueller just gave Trump the green light to can him.

 

[hillelslovak87]

It's a blatant overreach. Mueller just gave Trump the green light to can him.

Why is it blatant overreach? They went through the proper channels, through the judge, then handed it off when it was deemed not pertinent for that particular investigation.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

What, pray tell, would the "crime" be in this matter?

I don't know since I didn't work on or sign off on the warrant but if I had to guess it's probably related to campaign finance laws.

Could be more

 

[PolishHeadlock]

A billionaire philanderer has a personal attorney who is also a "fixer" and given broad authority to do his job. $130,000 to keep that woman quiet and protect the Don so Melania (or others) didn't find out about his one-night stand would be within said authority.

According to Cohen and Trump, Trump didn't know about that.

Is it attorney client privilege if the client doesn't know about it?

 

[Bobby 3 Sticks]

What, pray tell, would the "crime" be in this matter?

Improper use of campaign funds .Seem Cohen's use of llc to pay Stormy weeks before the election may have been done (or paid back by) campaign funds .That's a big no no. SD NY is big for white collar crimes .This fits perfectly with their speciality.

The amount of evidence Fed prosecutors for SD NY had to show a judge to get signed off on a no knock warrant for the POTUS personal lawyer to search home, office, hotel room and seizure of electronic devices had to be overwhelming that a serious felony existed .

Basically we can only speculate what crime it was but Cohen is fucked.

 

[HereticBD]

Why is it blatant overreach? They went through the proper channels, through the judge, then handed it off when it was deemed not pertinent for that particular investigation.

Mueller was not investigating this avenue. Why do you think he handed it off to another branch? This whole thing is ridiculous. The very definition of a snoop. Get anything and everything, and fuck the original investigation. Won't be surprised if some traffic violations from Trump's past are brought to light.

I thought this was about Russia? No?

Fuck this shit. Mueller jumped the shark. I hope Trump fires him. Personally. No back channels. And I hope congress does nothing about it, when it happens. This is absolute insanity, and while I'm sure the Libby brigade loves this "process" right now, they will not like it in the future. Precedents are getting set, and this is getting way out of hand. Trump needs to bring an end to this madness.

 

[Bobby 3 Sticks]

According to Cohen and Trump, Trump didn't know about that.

Is it attorney client privilege if the client doesn't know about it?

Stormys attorney played it perfectly kept laying traps through cable news like tRUmp loves .

Got both to admit that tRUmp knew nothing and wasn't involved which would also be an argument for throwing attorney client privilege regarding stormy out the window . Privilege cannot exist if client doesn't know . Which means Cohen is also fucked for entering into an agreement on his client's behalf without client's consent

 

[MikeMcMann]

It's the difference between a "prosecutor" and and "investigator". These are totally separate jobs, yet Mueller is tasked with both. A prosecutor's job is to charge criminals. A prosecutor who doesn't charge criminals is a failure.

Based on the fervor of the anti-Trump crowd, I'll also have to disagree with you that the public would be satisfied with zero indictments. In this very thread we can see partisans whose analytical ability does not appear to exceed that of a fruit fly but who are utterly convinced that Trump committed crimes.

The clearing of someone can be considered a positive, but that's only in the eyes of a (seemingly) reasonable person like you. Right now, half the country wants red meat.

Indeed we expect a prosecutor to charge criminals and they are a failure if they do not. But a prosecutor is also supposed to 'not charge non-criminals' and they are a failure if they do charge them.

You do understand that everyone that might come under a prosecutors scrutiny is not necessarily a criminal or guilty and no one would hold the prosecutor responsible for not charging them right? In fact it would be seen as a positive.

As a a Canadian observer with no stake i see extremely partisan posters on both sides. I see a zealous defense of all things Trump which is in stark contrast to the expectations I saw from many of the same posters during the Obama and Clinton presidencies. At least this issue seems to be far more investigation worthy than passports and blow jobs.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Mueller was not investigating this avenue. Why do you think he handed it off to another branch? This whole thing is ridiculous. The very definition of a snoop. Get anything and everything, and fuck the original investigation. Won't be surprised if some traffic violations from Trump's past are brought to light.

I thought this was about Russia? No?

Fuck this shit. Mueller jumped the shark. I hope Trump fires him. Personally. No back channels. And I hope congress does nothing about it, when it happens. This is absolute insanity, and while I'm sure the Libby brigade loves this "process" right now, they will not like it in the future. Precedents are getting set, and this is getting way out of hand. Trump needs to bring an end to this madness.

Lol

 

[MicroBrew]

Mueller was not investigating this avenue. Why do you think he handed it off to another branch? This whole thing is ridiculous. The very definition of a snoop. Get anything and everything, and fuck the original investigation. Won't be surprised if some traffic violations from Trump's past are brought to light.

I thought this was about Russia? No?

Fuck this shit. Mueller jumped the shark. I hope Trump fires him. Personally. No back channels. And I hope congress does nothing about it, when it happens. This is absolute insanity, and while I'm sure the Libby brigade loves this "process" right now, they will not like it in the future. Precedents are getting set, and this is getting way out of hand. Trump needs to bring an end to this madness.

Cohen and Trump may have used Trump campaign money to pay off Stormy Daniels.

The US government got Al Capone on Tax evasion, which obviously wasn't the main reason for the government going after him.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Mueller was not investigating this avenue. Why do you think he handed it off to another branch? This whole thing is ridiculous. The very definition of a snoop. Get anything and everything, and fuck the original investigation. Won't be surprised if some traffic violations from Trump's past are brought to light.

I thought this was about Russia? No?

Fuck this shit. Mueller jumped the shark. I hope Trump fires him. Personally. No back channels. And I hope congress does nothing about it, when it happens. This is absolute insanity, and while I'm sure the Libby brigade loves this "process" right now, they will not like it in the future. Precedents are getting set, and this is getting way out of hand. Trump needs to bring an end to this madness.

You are not making sense here.

Mueller is investigating Russia allegations. IF in that investigation he sees something not pertinent to his mandate but suspects a crime non-the-less he is not to turn a blind eye and ignore the body. He is to point it out to the proper authorities and they can investigate that and decide if they want to pursue it.

 

[HomerThompson]

I saw some reporting that Cohen got a home equity loan to pay for the settlement. If so, it's very likely he falsified loan documents. They're also looking at money laundering, etc. Cohen is fucked, and Trump is rustled beyond belief right now.

 

[TribalDrumz]

Muellers coming yo