Facing a Wrestler
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Splatterbeast
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Something tells me he's hospitalized right now due to lack of response and after listening to all of you peoples' advice to pull guard lmao, JK.
OP, what happened?
platfox
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I was going to say the opposite.:icon_chee
He took the advice to stand with a state champ and got dipped on his head. He probably won't have any memory of this thread for a week or so.
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knoxpk's strategy >>>>>> splatterbeast's strategy
That said, he's facing someone with a ton more overall grappling experience, and probably lost regardless of strategy.
That said, he's facing someone with a ton more overall grappling experience, and probably lost regardless of strategy.
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Sure am. My guard is stronger than my passing game, so I pull guard. It is a good strategy and it works.
I have a brown belt in Judo, so I actually have pretty decent stand up. I don't pull guard because I can't take some one down, I pull guard so I can make my opponent face to strongest aspect of my BJJ game.
When I first started competing in BJJ tournaments I always played for the takedown. In my first 5 or 6 tournaments I never pulled guard. Only got taken down once during this time also. However, I would only get points from going for takedowns less than half the time since my opponent would pull guard. In BJJ it is just too easy to neutralize someone who has good stand up.
Having a good stand up game is nice. In fact my previous judo experience has served me well in several matches. In the last Naga I attended I nailed an uchimata in finals after my opponent stood up from half guard.
I just don't think there is enough payoff for investing a lot of time in the stand up portion of BJJ in most cases.
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man, I was with him on that initially, but Jimmy made a pretty strong argument for just going out there and fighting for the takedown, win, lose or draw.
if the goal is to become an overall better and more well rounded grappler, then he should fight for the takedown regardless.
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I guess OP is not coming back.
Anyway, I hope no one thinks I am against takedowns and control...
... Seriously.
I just think that you learn that in practice, you dont go out and do stuff you never do in class at a comp where you MIGHT have 2 matches and spent $60+ for the honor of grappling the 2 matches that day.
The comp (to me) is where you go to apply the stuff you have been training and using in class. Pretty simple concept really, the classroom is the laboratory and the comp is the field, Test it in the lab, use it in the field.
Anyway, I hope no one thinks I am against takedowns and control...
... Seriously. I just think that you learn that in practice, you dont go out and do stuff you never do in class at a comp where you MIGHT have 2 matches and spent $60+ for the honor of grappling the 2 matches that day.
The comp (to me) is where you go to apply the stuff you have been training and using in class. Pretty simple concept really, the classroom is the laboratory and the comp is the field, Test it in the lab, use it in the field.
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I guess OP is not coming back.
Anyway, I hope no one thinks I am against takedowns and control...
I just think that you learn that in practice, you dont go out and do stuff you never do in class at a comp where you MIGHT have 2 matches and spent $60+ for the honor of grappling the 2 matches that day.
The comp (to me) is where you go to apply the stuff you have been training and using in class. Pretty simple concept really, the classroom is the laboratory and the comp is the field, Test it in the lab, use it in the field.
Exactly. People don't understand that competition or even live goes (to a lesser extent) are not where you learn technique/ improve in wrestling. Drilling is. Drilling is the single most important aspect of wrestling.
This. I was in the same position when my BJJ school went against a HS wrestling team (Local) I accepted the fact that there top game was better then mine,so when he went for the shoot I just planted on my but and pulled butterfly,with his momentum and my butterfly I swept him and ended up in the mount,put in the Super Hooks (Thanks Gracie Combatives) and landed a Ezekiel. All in about 12 seconds. Guard is your ultimate weapon.
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As an ex-state wrestler(who does Judo & BJJ), the worst/most un-natural position to be in would have to be the 50/50 guard. Most wrestlers enter submission grappling tournaments knowing to keep good posture with their arms tight in order to not get submitted. But put them in a 50/50 while attacking their legs and they'll be a fish out of water. (That is if this strategy is legal.)
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He's a whitebelt, so no.
I just got back in town last night. Sadly I did lose the match on points. Before I could jump/pull guard I was taken down. He took side control right away. I could not escape so I put my leg down and let him go to mount, as soon as he did I elbow escaped to half guard instantly and he did not get any points for it. Then the Ref split us apart, somehow I took and elbow to the face that split opened my chin and they had to put Vaseline on it and almost DQ’d me cause of the bleeding...I was trying to get to my butterfly guard or at least closed guard from half but spent most of the match in Half guard. He got two points for the takedown and 6 for passing my guard twice. I wish I would have done better but it was my first major tournament. I know I need to work on half guard big time now….
I normally just do small tournaments around St. Louis where I live and have taken 2nd and 3rd before which was fun. I'm not sure what I think of these big tournaments. I sat around for 5-6 hrs in a hot gym at the IBJJF Chicago dripping sweat. All just to roll for 6min and be knocked out of the tournament. By the time I rolled I had been sitting there sweating on hard ass bleachers for all day and felt tired/irritable. I guess a medal may have taken all the pain away.
I normally just do small tournaments around St. Louis where I live and have taken 2nd and 3rd before which was fun. I'm not sure what I think of these big tournaments. I sat around for 5-6 hrs in a hot gym at the IBJJF Chicago dripping sweat. All just to roll for 6min and be knocked out of the tournament. By the time I rolled I had been sitting there sweating on hard ass bleachers for all day and felt tired/irritable. I guess a medal may have taken all the pain away.
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Splatterbeast
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Sorry about your loss but at least you learned something - Don't make your goal to pull guard If you end up there, cool, you know what to do. But had he not taken you down right away, you would've made him work harder and expend more energy to get you down, you may have been able to escape easier and controlled him better. He took you down instantly with no effort or energy wasted, he was able to shit all over you apparently.
Anyway, I'm just saying what I would've done in that scenario. Either way if the chance is not good of you winning, you may as well have went balls out. Yeah maybe some of the things I describe aren't BJJ, but didn't someone quote one of the Gracies saying, "If it works, then it's BJJ"
If you end up there, cool, you know what to do. But had he not taken you down right away, you would've made him work harder and expend more energy to get you down, you may have been able to escape easier and controlled him better. He took you down instantly with no effort or energy wasted, he was able to shit all over you apparently.Anyway, I'm just saying what I would've done in that scenario. Either way if the chance is not good of you winning, you may as well have went balls out. Yeah maybe some of the things I describe aren't BJJ, but didn't someone quote one of the Gracies saying, "If it works, then it's BJJ"
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Here are the basics of half guard, as taught to me 4 years ago at CMU (I recorded these videos):
Also here's a quote about what I'm talking about.
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Don't let him get comfortable. When he dictates the pace of the match, from takedown to passes, you will always be defending. You need to get him into the mindset, "ok he knows something, I have to cautious." Then fortune favors the bold.
- Half Guard Driving Sweep
- Half Guard Rolling Sweep
- Grappler Situp
- Half Guard "Shoulder of Justice" Counter Counter
- Half Guard Cross Body Counter Counter
- Aesopian's half butterfly sweep
- Wrecking Crew's: half butterfly sweep to x-guard
- Indrek Reiland's functional half guard instructional
- 00: Introduction
- 00: Basic Positioning
- 01: Stay on your side
- 02: Paw and underhook
- 04: Crossface and flatten (top guy)
- 06: Isolation: paw vs crossface
- 07: Triangling the legs
- 08: Returning to closed guard
- 10: Isolation: adding the guard return
- 11: Double paw
- 13: Defending the brabo choke
- 14: Isolation: adding the double paw
- 16: Wedge
- 18: Isolation: adding the wedge
- 19: Behind the back arm trapping + sweep
- 22: Isolation: adding the arm trapping
- 23: On teaching basic positions and isolated drilling
- 24: Basic Techniques
- 24: Two ways of taking the back
- 25: Stretch the underhook
- 27: Exploding crunch
- 28: Toe grab sweep
- 32: Isolation: adding toe grab sweep
- 33: Sweeps off the wedge
- 33: Going out the backdoor
- 36: Grab pants sweep
- 38: When to teach half guard, the more advanced games and the basics
- 24: Two ways of taking the back
- 39: Half Guard Top
- 39: Basic goal - crossface and turning out
- 41: Safety position 1
- 42: Down by hips to negate the underhook
- 42: Pinching knees to prevent the guard return
- 43: Cupping elbow to negate the paw
- 43: Head in landing pad to flatten them out
- 45: Isolation: safety position
- 46: Importance of head position
- 48: Brabo choke
- 51: Safety position 2
- 53: Whizzer
- 55: Why not to kill the paw with a knee
- 57: Isolation: safety positions and whizzer
- 58: Basic goal in detail
- 58: Crossface
- 59: Turning out
- 60: Hand on hip
- 61: Gi grips
- 61: Shoulder lockdown
- 62: Face covering
- 63: Passing off their bridge
- 66: Wristlock
- 68: Passing to mount
- 71: Passing to side control
- 73: Passing to side control or mount
- 75: Isolation: passes
- 77: Hip switch pass
- 79: Isolation: Review of passing drills
- 82: Putting the whole passing game together
- 83: Closing and Thanks
Also here's a quote about what I'm talking about.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Don't let him get comfortable. When he dictates the pace of the match, from takedown to passes, you will always be defending. You need to get him into the mindset, "ok he knows something, I have to cautious." Then fortune favors the bold.
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Sorry about your loss but at least you learned something - Don't make your goal to pull guard
No what he should have learned is to make sure he gets the guard pull against an opponent with superior takedown ability. Try to "not get taken down right away" is a absolutely retarded strategy. OP would have been the one working harder and expending more energy since he has less skill than his opponent in stand up grappling. The more likely outcome to that strategy is that OP would have expended more energy and been easier to control once he inevitably got takendown.
OP. What you need to work on is implementing your game in a tournament. You just needed to hit the guard pull so you could work from a guard you where more comfortable with. The worst case scenario pretty much happened when you got taken down and put in side control of the bat.
Work on your guard pulling and 1/2 guard. You will face experience wrestlers in the future and you need to be able to pull a strong guard.
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See I agreed with your tourney strategy but wholeheartedly disagree with your training strategy.
Why not start working on take down defense and take downs of his own? THAT is where he needs the most work. Pulling guard is OK for a bjj tourney but his skill set is lacking if he cannot take someone down, especially in a ground oriented combat art.
