F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules... Thanks Trump.

[ChainFlow]

well you would have to determine as the consumer if face timing, gaming and video streaming are worth the cost to you, because none of those are paramount to survival. If you enough people cut the data (like they are with the chord) you would see prices drop to bring back loss revenue.

Why would prices drop when they don’t have competitors in most markets? And again, having more than a couple lights and a PC hooked up to your electric isn’t necessary for survival either...

This is pretty much a backlash to people cutting packaged cable in favor of unbound data forgetting the cable companies own the data, What did people expect would happen?

Well, if the market was competitive, they couldn’t abuse their position to re-extract revenue from users. It isn’t, so it’s the job of regulators to make it behave as close as they can to as if it was.

and while unbundling the last mile would promote increased competition, you are never going to get the owners of that infrastructure to allow other companies who want to kill cable offering on the lines of the cable companies. No industry in the world would go for that.

AT&T didn’t want to break up either, but it was determined to be the healthiest thing for the economy as a whole.

Back in the 90s phone companies in the US didn’t want to let DSL companies sell service over their lines but they were forced to.

There’s precedent.

We don’t need to just bow down to established near-monopolies, so why should we?

 

[ChainFlow]

Ok, then ISP treat data as hydro or water. They keep net neutrality -- charge 1500 for the modem with their firmware on it and charge 1 dollar per gig for any usage. Would that be more acceptable for you?

Lolwut? What water company charges 1500 setup fees..?

And again, bandwidth is the commodity, not gigs. Stop that stupid bullshit. And ISPs already charge more for more bandwidth, which is an entirely reasonable position.

If there was a competitive market with multiple players in it at all locations, and one of them wanted to sell “literally as fast bandwidth as we can deliver” service and then charge by the GB, that would be reasonable. But you can’t charge for faster speeds and then also charge for more data. It’s one or the other. And in a limited competition market, charging by bandwidth is the sane choice for both ISP and customer.

 

[TSO]

Good comeback, your intelligence (or lack of) is showing.

You obviously have no grasp of this if you dont have a proper follow up to explain how Im wrong. Your 3rd grade response shows you dont know what your talking about.

I was going to type an in depth response but you don't even know what routers do or what they are so anything I write will go right over your head. I didn't want to sound mean so I just kinda gave you a pat on the head and let you know that's not how this works.

 

[chrisdiaz]

I was going to type an in depth response but you don't even know what routers do or what they are so anything I write will go right over your head. I didn't want to sound mean so I just kinda gave you a pat on the head and let you know that's not how this works.

Right....cause anything I said in my statement is incorrect. How did I misexplain routers? Please enlighten me since youre obviously more intelligent.

Also, so people can see your an Idiot, heres a simple explanation from the following website.
http://www.inetdaemon.com/tutorials/internet/ip/routing/define_router.shtml

Let's use a home wireless router connected to a cable provider's internet network in a very simplified example.

1. The router powers on and loads it's OS from flash
2. The router loads the configuration file last saved to NVRAM and sets up the network interfaces and routing protocols it will run.
3. The router adds the network address and subnet for each interface to it's routing table along with the name of the interface itself.
4. The router has a simple static default route to send all non-local data out the network port connected to the cable company.
5. When the router receives a web page request from your computer, it checks the destination IP address against its routing table.
6. The bits forming the destination IP address in the IP packet are used as a hash key to point to the correct route, which in turn points to the correct network interface that the packet should be forwarded out of.
7. The router transmits the packet out the correct interface, to the next router, which repeats the process until the packet reaches the destination.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Lolwut? What water company charges 1500 setup fees..?

Modem isnt a setup fee, its a device to access the usage. water companies dont set the price on access devices -- how much did you plumbing cost? water heater? Faucets? How much of your property tax goes to delivery infrastructure?

And again, bandwidth is the commodity, not gigs. Stop that stupid bullshit. And ISPs already charge more for more bandwidth, which is an entirely reasonable position.

Data as a whole is the commodity, gigs included. Just because it cost near nothing for them to add more or less (it does cost them) doesn't mean you can tell the government that video streaming and gaming should be protected as human necessitates.

 

[ShoelessRye]

If McConnel brought him Adolf Hitler, would he have appointed him? Literally all Obama's people had to do was read Pai's LinkedIn to see he was a Verizon shill.

I don't blame Obama, he did a good job acknowledging NN as an issue, but he certainly fucked up here by not making this appointment a bigger issue.

I don't blame Obama. But Obama...

Three REPUBLICANS voted for NN Repeal. Two DEMOCRATS voted against it. Hillary ran on defending NN. Trump ran on repealing it. There was three Democrats already serving when an opening happened and that opening had to be filled by a Republican. McConnell chose Pei and Obama nominated him as per custom. Chairman Wheeler's term was up and he needed to be replaced - Trump replaced him with a Republican, as he could. The board flipped from three Democrats and two Republicans to Three Republicans and Two Democrats. If Hillary was elected she would have replaced the Democrat Wheeler with another Democrat, keeping the Commission at 3 Democrats and Two Republicans and thus NN would not have been repealed.

But Obama...

 

[TSO]

Right....cause anything I said in my statement is incorrect. How did I misexplain routers? Please enlighten me since youre obviously more intelligent.

Also, so people can see your an Idiot, heres a simple explanation from the following website.
http://www.inetdaemon.com/tutorials/internet/ip/routing/define_router.shtml

Let's use a home wireless router connected to a cable provider's internet network in a very simplified example.

1. The router powers on and loads it's OS from flash
2. The router loads the configuration file last saved to NVRAM and sets up the network interfaces and routing protocols it will run.
3. The router adds the network address and subnet for each interface to it's routing table along with the name of the interface itself.
4. The router has a simple static default route to send all non-local data out the network port connected to the cable company.
5. When the router receives a web page request from your computer, it checks the destination IP address against its routing table.
6. The bits forming the destination IP address in the IP packet are used as a hash key to point to the correct route, which in turn points to the correct network interface that the packet should be forwarded out of.
7. The router transmits the packet out the correct interface, to the next router, which repeats the process until the packet reaches the destination.

So you really don' understand even what you post?

 

[ChainFlow]

Modem isnt a setup fee, its a device to access the usage. water companies dont set the price on access devices -- how much did you plumbing cost? water heater? Faucets? How much of your property tax goes to delivery infrastructure?

You’re going off the deep end. Modems cost like 30-60$. I can buy one off amazon and hook it up. In fact, I did just that. I guess sure, why not, ISPs should be able to charge 1500 as long as they don’t prevent any other modem from working. Happy?

Data as a whole is the commodity, gigs included. Just because it cost near nothing for them to add more or less (it does cost them) doesn't mean you can tell the government that video streaming and gaming should be protected as human necessitates.

Bandwidth is the commodity because it’s the limiting factor at any given time. This is not complicated. Billing for both is charging twice for the same thing. If you wanted to uncap bandwidth and charge by the gig, cool! Nothing wrong with different pricing models. But charging by both is just rent-seeking monopolistic bullshit and if you stepped back for half a second you’d accept that. And how you get from that to “lol Netflix human necessity lol” god only knows.

 

[xcvbn]

I don't blame Obama. But Obama...

Three REPUBLICANS voted for NN Repeal. Two DEMOCRATS voted against it. Hillary ran on defending NN. Trump ran on repealing it. There was three Democrats already serving when an opening happened and that opening had to be filled by a Republican. McConnell chose Pei and Obama nominated him as per custom. Chairman Wheeler's term was up and he needed to be replaced - Trump replaced him with a Republican, as he could. The board flipped from three Democrats and two Republicans to Three Republicans and Two Democrats. If Hillary was elected she would have replaced the Democrat Wheeler with another Democrat, keeping the Commission at 3 Democrats and Two Republicans and thus NN would not have been repealed.

But Obama...

He appointed a telecom shill to the FCC without a fuss and some of you people refuse to criticize the move. Perhaps he didn't feel it was worth the fight at the time- understandable. Absolutely wrong but understandable.

Trump and the telecom industry are clearly the biggest enemies at present, and the way FCC appointments work should be more closely looked at. Lets leave it at that.

 

[chrisdiaz]

So you really don' understand even what you post?

Now I see your just a troll with 11,000 comments. I was hoping to actually have an intelligent discussion with someone who may know more about something than I do. Internet disappoints again.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

@ChainFlow just to state , i am for net neutrality i just dont by the narrative that all internet is a necessity

 

[ChainFlow]

@ChainFlow just to state , i am for net neutrality i just dont by the narrative that all internet is a necessity

That’s a reasonable position to take and there’s nothing wrong with it. I just think you’re erring on the side of letting ISPs get away with too much fuckery. Anyway I’m off to watch Star Wars, good talking with you - you’re generally a reasonable debater and that’s a rare thing in here.

 

[Rod1]

You didn't hurt my feelings (nice try with that a jibe though), it takes a lot to do so. When someone says something ignorant it's very seldom that it ever hurts me, I merely make judgements about their character and move on.

I would have asked but it didn't seem relevant which was my mistake.

I clearly did, its more than obvious, since you are clearly unable to accept that i was right and now attack me because i wasnt as detailed enough when you decided to jump into the thread.

 

[deviake]

I clearly did, its more than obvious, since you are clearly unable to accept that i was right and now attack me because i wasnt as detailed enough when you decided to jump into the thread.

You're just having trouble accepting that you acted a fool. It's all good, you clearly care much more than I do.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

You’re going off the deep end. Modems cost like 30-60$. I can buy one off amazon and hook it up. In fact, I did just that. I guess sure, why not, ISPs should be able to charge 1500 as long as they don’t prevent any other modem from working. Happy?

Well you dont pay for the hardware thats cheap as hell, you pay for the firmware to connect to the ISP. The only reason they are cheap is because the market set the prices -- obviously no one would pay 1500 for a modem but if ISP could charge that, they would.

Bandwidth is the commodity because it’s the limiting factor at any given time. This is not complicated. Billing for both is charging twice for the same thing. If you wanted to uncap bandwidth and charge by the gig, cool! Nothing wrong with different pricing models. But charging by both is just rent-seeking monopolistic bullshit and if you stepped back for half a second you’d accept that. And how you get from that to “lol Netflix human necessity lol” god only knows.

where do you get they charge you for both? Using the 95th percentile method -- calculate for me how they charge for both. Not sure where you are getting your double billing claim.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

That’s a reasonable position to take and there’s nothing wrong with it. I just think you’re erring on the side of letting ISPs get away with too much fuckery. Anyway I’m off to watch Star Wars, good talking with you - you’re generally a reasonable debater and that’s a rare thing in here.

enjoy

 

[Rod1]

You're just having trouble accepting that you acted a fool. It's all good, you clearly care much more than I do.

Yes, i acted like a fool because you decided to ignore the substance of my post which was backed by evidence that i posted just one page before you entered this thread.

A thread that was less than 100 posts where you entered, and after deciding to be obstinate in the face of an argument that i had already put forward i decided to brush you off as a trumptard and at that point your feelings got hurt.

 

[DamasR]

I will never vote republican again.

 

[deviake]

Yes, i acted like a fool because you decided to ignore the substance of my post which was backed by evidence that i posted just one page before you entered this thread.

A thread that was less than 100 posts where you entered, and after deciding to be obstinate in the face of an argument that i had already put forward i decided to brush you off as a trumptard and at that point your feelings got hurt.

Bro, I didn't feel it was relevant because I thought the president, in this case Obama, had more control and could have vetoed the appointing of Ajit in favor of someone else, and I was under the mistaken impression that he was Obama's pick. It seems like it's a simple conflict of interest - appointing (or allowing) a person to be appointed to the FCC, which regulates the telecom industry, who used to work for that industry, and I was disappointed in that decision. That's why I didn't see the 3-2 rule as relevant to what I was saying but apparently that is incomprehensible to you. EvenFlow then explained it in articulate, concise, fashion, and even apologized for misjudging me and my pretense.

Just saying 'Trumptard' makes you look like a fucking idiot or at the very least immature (same as people who say 'libtard'), same with the soccer mom comment (and lol at that one, I still don't know what that means). It's low, petty, and immature, and says something about you. You can keep saying my feelings were hurt, but it's not going to make it come true. Clearly I've rustled you judging by the fact that you haven't let this shit go after what, hours?

 

[Panmisiek]

Since internet providers will have to disclose any limitations to the services, those who decide to keep it open will see many people switching over, thus increasing profits.

Thoughts?