F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules... Thanks Trump.

[ChainFlow]

They have to accommodate the back end hardware to keep up with increased flow -- its not all last mile network.

And i am talking about data a necessity - basic usage to survive in 2017 america is not beyond emails and online form applications. So once they offer basic packages to meet the necessary demands of all people. Why shouldnt they be able to charge whatever they want for the luxury aspects? Are you saying video streaming, file sharing and game hosting are must have entities to survive?

Your definition of luxury is arbitrary, is what I’m saying. ISPs could easily argue that anything over 5Mbps is luxurious and they should be able to charge 30$/month for video streaming, and 40$/month for gaming without getting latency injected, and 50$/month if you want to FaceTime with your grandma. But how does it serve the overall economy to let them abuse their oligopoly position to extract such egregious rent?

It would be one thing if there was healthy competition in the ISP market but there isn’t. If the US had local loop unbundling (divorcing the infrastructure owner from the service provider) like the UK or France or whatever then market forces would sort these issues out. But we don’t.

 

[Breakitdown]

Continuing with your dishonest behavior and crude attempts at ad Homs, eh?

10Mbps (really, less than that) is not a competitor to broadband because it can’t be used for the same things that broadband is. A bicycle is not a competitor to a car because even though it can be used for some of the same things, it is not a like-for-like replacement.

Your claim was debunked because you claimed that 90% of markets had competition, and DSL is not a competitor to broadband. I am getting tired of educating you on this topic, you really should do your own research instead of making people spoon-feed you.

Your emotional leaps to grasp at anything that you feel can sustain your monopoly-worshiping position do not serve your image well.

And there it is. Your entire argument is based upon the pretense of acceptable speed. 10mb/s can be used for the exact same tasks albeit at a different speed.

Your analogy is laughably off base as well. A bicycle cannot legally traverse all the same paths/roads as a car can. A better analogy would be someone getting an average car for 10,000 but demanding a ferrari for the same price because they aren't comfortable with the slower car's performance. This is essentially all your argument boils down to and your elementary-level deflections and analogies paint a horrific picture of neutrality backers. You've done nothing but obfuscate and parrot disingenuous lies this entire thread. A gruesome display of dishonesty to say the least.

 

[Falsedawn]

If McConnel brought him Adolf Hitler, would he have appointed him? Literally all Obama's people had to do was read Pai's LinkedIn to see he was a Verizon shill.

I don't blame Obama, he did a good job acknowledging NN as an issue, but he certainly fucked up here by not making this appointment a bigger issue.

But man, what do you do here? This was all tied in with the Trump package. You can keep telling people how shitty Trump is, and they'll argue with you about it for a week. He didn't have to be made commissioner, Trump made him commissioner do do exactly what they just did. This was a huge talking point during the election.

 

[TSO]

their servers? No its their routers they allow you to use. Your home router is given an IP to communate to their router that routes the traffic to the IP of google or whateven website your visting. There has to be an end device forwarding you to the "free internet" and vice versa. If you wanted to become ISP, you would have to purchase a set of external IP's and you would still be routing through their infrastructure. If there arent multiple routers for you to utilize, that the telecom companies provide which makes up the backbone of the internet, your not going to get a reply from the website your trying to visit.

No, that's not how it works.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Yes, and this only applies under the oversight of the utility as such; meaning that obstruction or pay-barriers cannot be applied at the will of the provider. Prices are controlled to insure demographics are not given favoritism, and the functions of society are not deterred in advancement based on payment capability.

What you have with the internet is access to information (whether written, streamed, or audio) as well as ability to compete in the market place. Access to information in all abilities to remain competitive all fields is important for a society that doesn't provide an uneven playing field for those with more capital.

How are you to distinguish between informational streaming vs written? Charging the providers for the ability to provide the service, then raising the cost to the consumer, resulting in the same outcome.

What are lower-class and lower-middle class do to obtain information? They are already choosing between healthcare and ability to obtain information to remain competitive. Prices must remain lowered and competitive. People are already paying for the machines, the access, and now sitting under data caps. This simply allows ISPs to keep the populous under ransom for ability to engage in society that is nearly a completely digital society.... with no idea how they will parse necessary vs non-necessary information and access. And since the government cannot protect those access points and amount, we are left to non-ethical and unaccountable corporations to decide.

you can easily address the "income gap" with determining basic connectivity standards (canada already did this)> offering basic data packages at a fixed, reasonable prices so low income people can access the net for necessary usage, while tiering other packages as luxury usage is fair game.

If you want to provide equal usage and access for all people, petition your municipality to raise property taxes and develop a mesh network so the poor can watch just as much netflix as the rich -- or, they can just go to their local library.

 

[deviake]

I didnt called you a Trumptard until after you refused to even address the point i made.

You simply ignored what i told you, after jumping in the middle of a thread without even reading the thread.

I did explained it before in detail




But apparently im the asshole because despite telling you in the first reply that no more than 3 commissioners can belong to a political party you still decide to plug your ears and say "Thanks Obama" after jumping in the middle of a thread where this very issue was explained in detail.

Im sorry that you are too proud to accept that you were wrong and now claim that i wasnt detailed enough for you, who walked in the middle of the thread. arent you a soccer mom by any chance?

I already said I was wrong, so...? I must have missed that link unfortunately. And no, you didn't. ChainFlow needed all of two sentences. At first glance, I didn't see the significance of 3 commissioners belonging to a political party and Obama appointing Pai.

You were a dumb asshole, and that dumbass soccer mom comment is only further cementing that (and I don't know what the fuck that even means). You're rude and you don't seem very intelligent nor mature. A more intelligent person explained things. Dats eet playboy.

 

[Rod1]

If McConnel brought him Adolf Hitler, would he have appointed him? Literally all Obama's people had to do was read Pai's LinkedIn to see he was a Verizon shill.

I don't blame Obama, he did a good job acknowledging NN as an issue, but he certainly fucked up here by not making this appointment a bigger issue.

Ajit is no more of a shill than the other 2 who also voted for it.

Also yes, i would assume he would had appointed Adolf Hitler, because unless a republican president gets in place there would only be 2 Adolf Hitlers.

So once Trump is out, Democrats will only need one appointment to expire to get NN back on track.

 

[Luminaire]

Don't mind BD guys... he piggy backs his wifi off his neighbor.

He lives in a trailer park in New Mexico and gets about via a Rascal 550 Power Scooter.

*BD at last years BBQ Rub Competition.*

*Note the liter of Cola*

Your pleas for faster broadband speeds will not be received by him, he gets kicked off his wifi everytime the neighbor kid plays his Xbone, he hates that little shit.

 

[My Spot]

ISPs have tried to violate Net Neutrality multiple times over the years. Unless this decision is reversed, they'll now have free reign to do whatever they please, and they will have no regulations and very little competition to keep them in line.

The first search result:

https://www.freepress.net/blog/2017/04/25/net-neutrality-violations-brief-history

 

[ChainFlow]

because it goes beyond delivery - back end includes provisioning, mediation, billing, account management etc -- all of which comes with very costly software and hardware that becomes more complex and costly as it grows. most ISP billing software charges 4% of revenue with a end point cap at 100'000 users -- after that you have to drastically go to up to accommodate scale.

And, because video service is common, does not mean its not a luxury. If you stopped gaming, watching netflix, youtube you could easily manage life. If you couldnt email or fill out government forms online, that would impact you way more so.

Ok, but that’s just the business the ISPs have gotten into. I’m not sure what talking about the costs of running an ISP in general have to do with whether they should be prevented from rent-seeking behavior. And whether off-peak usage should be considered equivalent to peak usage to push customers to higher billing tiers on a pretense.

As far as the video service - why not cap KWh for people who don’t pass an extra fee? You can manage life with only a TV and four lights and one computer plugged in. Why don’t we let electricity companies charge for the privilege of connecting anything “luxurious”? It’s a silly line of thought.

If McConnel brought him Adolf Hitler, would he have appointed him? Literally all Obama's people had to do was read Pai's LinkedIn to see he was a Verizon shill.

I don't blame Obama, he did a good job acknowledging NN as an issue, but he certainly fucked up here by not making this appointment a bigger issue.

Yes, Pai is a snake, but don’t overlook the fact that all three republicans voted this way. Obama didn’t do this at all. If Pai was replaced by a generic republican and Carr was commissioner it still would have happened. It’s the Republican officials.

 

[Rod1]

I already said I was wrong, so...? I must have missed that link unfortunately. And no, you didn't. ChainFlow needed all of two sentences. At first glance, I didn't see the significance of 3 commissioners belonging to a political party and Obama appointing Pai.

You were a dumb asshole, and that dumbass soccer mom comment is only further cementing that (and I don't know what the fuck that even means). You're rude and you don't seem very intelligent nor mature. A more intelligent person explained things. Dats eet playboy.

How did you missed the significance? im sorry i hurt your feelings, but next time try to addressing the points that are being forwarded to you.

If you dont understand the significance of something, then ask.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

a question I have about this...

if companies then choose to throttle their speeds, or charge more for certain services or whatever....

why wouldn't competition still apply? would not the company that doesn't resort to those things intice more customers?

you know, like the cell phone market and the unlimited plans? Verizon doesn't have the total dominance it used to.....
edit: I realize that if you live in a rural locale (as I do) that you could be screwed either way due to lack of competition already

Seems like you guys arent the 'market-experts' you claim to be.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Seems like you guys arent the 'market-experts' you claim to be.

who is claiming to be a market expert?

who is 'you guys' referring to?

 

[chrisdiaz]

No, that's not how it works.

Good comeback, your intelligence (or lack of) is showing.

You obviously have no grasp of this if you dont have a proper follow up to explain how Im wrong. Your 3rd grade response shows you dont know what your talking about.

 

[Breakitdown]

You know the other side has nothing to hang their hat on when they try to affirm Netflix and Xbox Live as a fkin human right LMAO.

 

[My Spot]

who is claiming to be a market expert?

who is 'you guys' referring to?

Be advised, he's an admitted troll.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Your definition of luxury is arbitrary, is what I’m saying. ISPs could easily argue that anything over 5Mbps is luxurious and they should be able to charge 30$/month for video streaming, and 40$/month for gaming without getting latency injected, and 50$/month if you want to FaceTime with your grandma. But how does it serve the overall economy to let them abuse their oligopoly position to extract such egregious rent?

It would be one thing if there was healthy competition in the ISP market but there isn’t. If the US had local loop unbundling (divorcing the infrastructure owner from the service provider) like the UK or France or whatever then market forces would sort these issues out. But we don’t.

well you would have to determine as the consumer if face timing, gaming and video streaming are worth the cost to you, because none of those are paramount to survival. If you or enough people cut the data (like they are with the chord) you would see prices drop to bring back loss revenue.

This is pretty much a backlash to people cutting packaged cable in favor of unbound data forgetting the cable companies own the data, What did people expect would happen?

and while unbundling the last mile would promote increased competition, you are never going to get the owners of that infrastructure to allow other companies who want to kill cable offering on the lines of the cable companies. No industry in the world would go for that.

 

[ChainFlow]

And there it is. Your entire argument is based upon the pretense of acceptable speed. 10mb/s can be used for the exact same tasks albeit at a different speed.

Your analogy is laughably off base as well. A bicycle cannot legally traverse all the same paths/roads as a car can. A better analogy would be someone getting an average car for 10,000 but demanding a ferrari for the same price because they aren't comfortable with the slower car's performance. This is essentially all your argument boils down to and your elementary-level deflections and analogies paint a horrific picture of neutrality backers. You've done nothing but obfuscate and parrot disingenuous lies this entire thread. A gruesome display of dishonesty to say the least.

You finally think you’ve found your one straw to grasp at, don’t you?

You’ve done nothing but spew personal attacks and puff up like a cornered cat this whole thread.

5Mbps internet CANNOT be used for the same things as broadband, especially when you consider that households have more than one person in them. You’re dishonest, you’re belligerently ignorant, and you’ve ignored every bit of information provided to you to show you the error of your position. Do you perhaps live in the White House?

Even your analogies are flawed. Broadband isn’t a Ferrari, that would be 10Gb fiber internet. Just admit when you don’t know shit about a topic but really want to defend oligopolistic market practices because of your fetish for exploitation.

 

[deviake]

How did you missed the significance? im sorry i hurt your feelings, but next time try to addressing the points that are being forwarded to you.

If you dont understand the significance of something, then ask.

You didn't hurt my feelings (nice try with that a jibe though), it takes a lot to do so. When someone says something ignorant it's very seldom that it ever hurts me, I merely make judgements about their character and move on.

I would have asked but it didn't seem relevant which was my mistake.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Ok, but that’s just the business the ISPs have gotten into. I’m not sure what talking about the costs of running an ISP in general have to do with whether they should be prevented from rent-seeking behavior. And whether off-peak usage should be considered equivalent to peak usage to push customers to higher billing tiers on a pretense.

As far as the video service - why not cap KWh for people who don’t pass an extra fee? You can manage life with only a TV and four lights and one computer plugged in. Why don’t we let electricity companies charge for the privilege of connecting anything “luxurious”? It’s a silly line of thought..

Ok, then ISP treat data as hydro or water. They keep net neutrality -- charge 1500 for the modem with their firmware on it and charge 1 dollar per gig for any usage. Would that be more acceptable for you?