Exposing the Grift: Go Woke Go Broke

[deviake]

Explaining context is not some labrybthine logical leap. Classic example is the empathy quote. Just giving half of what he says distorts its meaning. Its not rocket science.

Context makes him come off worse and his "questionable" (being generous) comments are numerous

 

[SuperAlly]

While I do disagree with him a lot, this attitude and flippant responses isn't gonna get anywhere. The whole Kirk thing is a unique situation because it presents a legitimate example of how disinformation and rhetoric can have massively negative results. But responses like this wont reach anybody and will only get people to dig their heels even deeper.

He literally made this thread to try and feel superior to and "dunk on" average Joe who are, quite reasonably, tired of far left identity politics destroying numerous formerly quality and enjoyable entertainment IPs. He deserves to have the mirror shone back on him and to be humbled.

Its one of the most gross and unlikeable things about modern far left people, this weird and false idea they that they are better than the average person merely because of their extreme political views.

 

[Bob Gray]

He literally made this thread to try and feel superior to and "dunk on" average Joe who are, quite reasonably, tired of far left identity politics destroying numerous formerly quality and enjoyable entertainment IPs. He deserves to have the mirror shone back on him and to be humbled.

Its one of the most gross and unlikeable things about modern far left people, this weird and false idea they that they are better than the average person merely because of their extreme political views.

Maybe so, but my point is that your methods won't accomplish the results you're looking for. Like I said, this is a unique situation now, and if theres potential for each side to meet somewhere towards the middle, no matter how small the chance, people on our side cant engage this way. Its not about winning or dunking on anybody. Things can get worse than they are now or better. Im hoping for the latter, but thats gonna take effort and some patience. Anything else will only make things worse or, at best, keep things the way they are.

 

[SuperAlly]

Maybe so, but my point is that your methods won't accomplish the results you're looking for. Like I said, this is a unique situation now, and if theres potential for each side to meet somewhere towards the middle, no matter how small the chance, people on our side cant engage this way. Its not about winning or dunking on anybody. Things can get worse than they are now or better. Im hoping for the latter, but thats gonna take effort and some patience. Anything else will only make things worse or, at best, keep things the way they are.

I just want him and a few others on here to realise that it's perfectly reasonable for people to no longer enjoy, and in some cases actively despise, products they used to love because other people with no love of the original IP bastardised it into something else due to their own extreme political views. Cultural vandalism should not be celebrated and actively championed as the right thing to do.

Being a left wing extremist does not immediately make you a better human being than the centre and right.

Its the ridiculous sneering arrogance of the whole thing I find utterly distasteful.

 

[ShadowRun]

lol at TS

 

[Bob Gray]

Context makes him come off worse and his "questionable" (being generous) comments are numerous

Just humor me for one second. I wanna see if we can actually come to to an agreement on one thing one time about one quote, without a "but this other quote" or "But something else". Lets see if we can just talk about this one quote.

The empathy quote. Here it is as given by the people criticizing him:

I can't stand the word empathy, actually. I think empathy is a made-up, new age term that — it does a lot of damage.

From there its "He didnt believe in Empathy", or "Had no empathy", and even on sherdog he was called a psychopath on the wrong side of humanity for that quote.

But heres the actual quote in context:

The new communications strategy is not to do what Bill Clinton used to do, where he would say, "I feel your pain." Instead, it is to say, "You're actually not in pain." So let's just, little, very short clip. Bill Clinton in the 1990s. It was all about empathy and sympathy. I can't stand the word empathy, actually. I think empathy is a made-up, new age term that — it does a lot of damage. But, it is very effective when it comes to politics. Sympathy, I prefer more than empathy. That's a separate topic for a different time.

You dont have to like him or anything he says. You can think hes wrong about every position ever, including this one in the quote. He can still be a terrible racist person. BUT....can't we agree that in this one instance, the quote was distorted to remove its actual meaning? Regardless of whether you agree with it or not, what he said was very different than the quote that was constantly brought up. Can we agree? One time? Without bringing up something else?

 

[deviake]

Just humor me for one second. I wanna see if we can actually come to to an agreement on one thing one time about one quote, without a "but this other quote" or "But something else". Lets see if we can just talk about this one quote.

The empathy quote. Here it is as given by the people criticizing him:



From there its "He didnt believe in Empathy", or "Had no empathy", and even on sherdog he was called a psychopath on the wrong side of humanity for that quote.

But heres the actual quote in context:




You dont have to like him or anything he says. You can think hes wrong about every position ever, including this one in the quote. He can still be a terrible racist person. BUT....can't we agree that in this one instance, the quote was distorted to remove its actual meaning? Regardless of whether you agree with it or not, what he said was very different than the quote that was constantly brought up. Can we agree? One time? Without bringing up something else?

I've seen the full quote lol. Yes, empathy can be weaponized, that doesn't make it bad and sympathize and many other words can and has been used the same way. Rhetorical tricks for plausible deniability are nothing new unless we assume he's too stupid to understand what he's saying which I don't buy. People do the same defense with other figures. At times in my life where I didn't want to believe something I've bullshitted myself the same way.

 

[SuperAlly]

I've seen the full quote lol. Yes, empathy can be weaponized, that doesn't make it bad and sympathize and many other words can and has been used the same way. Rhetorical tricks for plausible deniability are nothing new unless we assume he's too stupid to understand what he's saying which I don't buy. People do the same defense with other figures. At times in my life where I didn't want to believe something I've bullshitted myself the same way.

Tricks you say. Like selectively editing a quote to change context and distort meaning.

Interesting...

 

[Bob Gray]

I've seen the full quote lol. Yes, empathy can be weaponized, that doesn't make it bad and sympathize and many other words can and has been used the same way. Rhetorical tricks for plausible deniability are nothing new unless we assume he's too stupid to understand what he's saying which I don't buy. People do the same defense with other figures. At times in my life where I didn't want to believe something I've bullshitted myself the same way.

You've said a lot but I havent gotten an answer for my question. You're arguing against against his point, which isn't the discussion I'm trying to have.

Isnt that one quote, that one time, edited to distort the meaning? Im not arguing whether the quote is right or wrong. For the sake of discussion, lets just hes wrong. It doesnt matter whether hes accurate or not. Can't we agree that by selecting that one passage from his overall quote, it distorts the meaning?

 

[deviake]

You've said a lot but I havent gotten an answer for my question. You're arguing against against his point, which isn't the discussion I'm trying to have.

Isnt that one quote, that one time, edited to distort the meaning? Im not arguing whether the quote is right or wrong. For the sake of discussion, lets just hes wrong. It doesnt matter whether hes accurate or not. Can't we agree that by selecting that one passage from his overall quote, it distorts the meaning?

Ish if I'm absolutely reaching but even then, the context doesn't change the claim because he's poo pooing the entire concept and not just the way its used. It's a linguistic trick. Saying "Kirk didn't like or believe in empathy" isn't inaccurate so the context doesn't change things, but I'm not going to interrogate every single statement every single person has made about that quote. Empathy is putting yourself in someone else's shoes. How does it do damage? All sorts of words and concepts are used to do damage/be manipulative lol, and all words are "made up" but the idea of trying to see things from another point of view or feeling someone else's pain is very real. If someone else's emotions have ever affected you, like you've taken on their attitude/feeling and/or you've tried to imagine things from their perspective, you've empathized with them.

And that's among a litany of quotes from him.

He was a rage bating debate bro. I'd hardly thought of him other than seeing clips of him getting owned on Jubilee before he got smoked.

 

[Bob Gray]

Ish if I'm absolutely reaching but even then, the context doesn't change the claim because he's poo pooing the entire concept and not just the way its used. It's a linguistic trick. Saying "Kirk didn't like or believe in empathy" isn't inaccurate so the context doesn't change things, but I'm not going to interrogate every single statement every single person has made about that quote. Empathy is putting yourself in someone else's shoes. How does it do damage? All sorts of words and concepts are used to do damage/be manipulative lol, and all words are "made up" but the idea of trying to see things from another point of view or feeling someone else's pain is very real. If someone else's emotions have ever affected you, like you've taken on their attitude/feeling and/or you've tried to imagine things from their perspective, you've empathized with them.

And that's among a litany of quotes from him.

He was a rage bating debate bro. I'd hardly thought of him other than seeing clips of him getting owned on Jubilee before he got smoked.

Ish? I mean, people argue hes a psychopath because of the quote. Thats a pretty big curve from what he said.

If you really want a deeper dive, at a different point he said he preferred sympathy or compassion because empathy meant feeling what someone else felt, which he didnt think you could do, but you can understand someone elses pain or distress. People are interpreting it as basically "He's an asshole that doesnt care", as opposed to "I can have sympathy for people even if I dont feel what they feel".

Again, its not even question of whether he's right or not. Its completely immaterial to the discussion Im trying to have. Singling out that one passage is a deliberate attempt to distort what he said to have a more negative connotation than he had. Can we agree? Its just one quote, bro. It aint gonna kill you and you wont have to turn in your progressive card, I promise.

 

[deviake]

Ish? I mean, people argue hes a psychopath because of the quote. Thats a pretty big curve from what he said.

If you really want a deeper dive, at a different point he said he preferred sympathy or compassion because empathy meant feeling what someone else felt, which he didnt think you could do, but you can understand someone elses pain or distress. People are interpreting it as basically "He's an asshole that doesnt care", as opposed to "I can have sympathy for people even if I dont feel what they feel".

Again, its not even question of whether he's right or not. Its completely immaterial to the discussion Im trying to have. Singling out that one passage is a deliberate attempt to distort what he said to have a more negative connotation than he had. Can we agree? Its just one quote, bro. It aint gonna kill you and you wont have to turn in your progressive card, I promise.

Bro I've not looked at everything everyone has said about that quote nor do I care, it's not worth the energy. You're a dog with a bone that I don't want to play with. I've the gist of who he was and the message he put out, I'm not getting into a scientific review of what everyone said about this particular quote

 

[Bob Gray]

Bro I've not looked at everything everyone has said about that quote nor do I care, it's not worth the energy. You're a dog with a bone that I don't want to play with. I've the gist of who he was and the message he put out, I'm not getting into a scientific review of what everyone said about this particular quote

No one is asking you to look into anything, or change your opinion. I dont understand whats so difficult, honestly. Taking one sentence out of an entire passage is misleading, isnt it? Ive already said for the sake of the discussion nothing said here changes how you feel about him. One quote can be misleading and he can still be a terrible, racist person. Lets just say he is a terrible, racist person, but this one quote, this one time is distorted.

 

[deviake]

No one is asking you to look into anything, or change your opinion. I dont understand whats so difficult, honestly. Taking one sentence out of an entire passage is misleading, isnt it? Ive already said for the sake of the discussion nothing said here changes how you feel about him. One quote can be misleading and he can still be a terrible, racist person. Lets just say he is a terrible, racist person, but this one quote, this one time is distorted.

I've already addressed this.

 

[Bob Gray]

I've already addressed this.

OK, you know what? I'll take "ish" as a middle ground agreement. At least you can admit its somewhat dishonest.

 

[deviake]

OK, you know what? I'll take "ish" as a middle ground agreement. At least you can admit its somewhat dishonest.

Here's your take:

From there its "He didnt believe in Empathy", or "Had no empathy", and even on sherdog he was called a psychopath on the wrong side of humanity for that quote.

I would say, "He didn't believe in empathy" is fair to say based on that quote and the full context. "He had no empathy" is speculation based on his quote but even then I don't think is wildly off base, at worst we can say we don't know for sure but I can say for sure that I don't care. Dishonest is a stretch and mind you, you made those quotes up, you didn't specifically cite sources and direct quotes so I'm getting this secondhand. Even then, I'm sure people have said all kinds of things, there's probably thousands or tens of thousands of comments online about his empathy quote; I don't care, I've seen the dude speak. The rest of my take I've explained.

 

[Bob Gray]

Here's your take:

From there its "He didnt believe in Empathy", or "Had no empathy", and even on sherdog he was called a psychopath on the wrong side of humanity for that quote.

I would say, "He didn't believe in empathy" is fair to say based on that quote and the full context. "He had no empathy" is speculation based on his quote but even then I don't think is wildly off base, at worst we can say we don't know for sure but I can say for sure that I don't care. Dishonest is a stretch and mind you, you made those quotes up, you didn't specifically cite sources and direct quotes so I'm getting this secondhand. Even then, I'm sure people have said all kinds of things, there's probably thousands or tens of thousands of comments online about his empathy quote; I don't care, I've seen the dude speak. The rest of my take I've explained.

I made them up? Are you serious?

 

[deviake]

I made them up? Are you serious?

What specific person were you quoting? Breathe, Bob.

 

[Bob Gray]

What specific person were you quoting? Breathe, Bob.

What quotes do you think I made up?

 

[SuperAlly]

What specific person were you quoting? Breathe, Bob.

The far left extremist classic, be getting clearly out gunned in a debate and just pretend you are winning

Seen it quite a few times this weekend on this forum