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Exposing the Grift: Go Woke Go Broke

Thats not really how it works, imo. YOu cant really prove somebody isnt someone accusing them of being unless you know what the accusation is. But at any rate, the definition of racist is:

rac·ist

/ˈrāsəst/
https://www.google.com/search?clien...2ahUKEwiq8Z3-_O6PAxVumO4BHekjIS4Q3eEDegQIQBAO

  1. characterized by or showing prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
    "we are investigating complaints about racist abuse"
noun

  1. a person who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.



Charlie Kirk wasnt racist because none of his position or anything he argued were discriminitory or antagonistic towards anyone due to their race. I know what some of the accusations are. I know you must know that at the very least some of the quotes attributed to him are distorted or without context. I cant go over all of them. But its easy to pick a few.

One of the biggest ones was about thinking the Civil Rights Act was a mistake. The question, is, can someone be critical of the CRA and think it was a mistake without being racist? Ultimately, he thinks it had more negative outcomes than positive ones for the black community. One can argue this is wrong. But it is not a racist position.

Another was the oft repeated quote about black pilots. But, again, its without any context. His point isnt that black people are unqualified. Hes saying that if TWA goes ahead and institutes the quota they talked about, which was raising black pilots from the current 3% to 40%, then he said he'd wonder if they were qualified. This isnt a racist statement, because it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with dei quotas. Again, once can argue hes wrong, or that enforcing racial diversity quotas doesnt mean hiring someone less qualified to meet these quotas. But it is not a racist position. He'd draw the exact same position for any other enforced quota. You'd do it too, under the right circumstances. If the NBA suddenly decided that from now on 40% of their players would be Mexican, it isnt racist to wonder if the sudden surge of Mexican basketball players would be as good as other potential players.

Im sure theres more. But at the end of the day, I know you've been around long enough to remember that quote mining was literally the exact tactic Rush Limbaugh was employing in the 90's. Just take a quote, or a random passage without context and draw a conclusion solely from that. This is literally the exact thing thats happening now and its frustrating as all fuck to see such a transparent tactic spammed so frequently by so many people.

Its not uncommon for left leaning and progressive people to infer racism almost immediately solely because they disagree with someone's position about a racial topic. Kirk was obviously rabidly anti any form of DEI, and he thought it would lead to less qualified people being hired. He might be wrong, but that isnt racist.

Just one last note, another one of the positions is about Martin Luthor King Jr being an awful person. Again, this often evokes immediate accusations of racism. But unless you can show why Kirk thinks hes awful because hes black, theres no real direction to go. But, is it really a far fetched position that a really religious person would think a guy that frequently cheated on his wife with prostitutes was a bad person? The color of his skin has nothing to do with it. Even so, he can be wrong, but wrong is not the same thing as racist and all too often the two terms indistinguishable in topics like this.

I'm not going to litigate these points, but I'm going to refer you to the angle conservatives adopted with Nixon and then Reagan, and have used ever since. One of their mutual advisors directly said they had to change the vocabulary they were using so they could appeal to racist voters without being explicitly racist. I'm sure you've seen that quote many times but have never taken it seriously.

It allows people like you to defend his positions despite the fact they are almost certainly targeting the racist vote. It leaves you free to ignore the implication and litigate the literal, but the literal is rarely where messaging lies.

I don't have an answer to that approach, nobody does, which is why it's so effective in politics. The black and LGBTQ communities hated Kirk because his messaging always served to dehumanize them and make their lives worse. He called for a ban on affirmation therapy and got it, which is catastrophic for the people who desperately need it.
 
It is strange how much you think of other posters without any prompting.

That is a sick cat shirt though.

What's not strange is how they constantly tie image and identity to their politics.

This makes up a huge part of conservative support. Who gives a shit about policy, do you want to be with the tough guys with beards and guns or the soy boys with pink hair?
 
What's not strange is how they constantly tie image and identity to their politics.

This makes up a huge part of conservative support. Who gives a shit about policy, do you want to be with the tough guys with beards and guns or the soy boys with pink hair?
Hi soy boy
 
Edit - wrong thread
 
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Edit - Wrong Thread
 
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I'm not going to litigate these points, but I'm going to refer you to the angle conservatives adopted with Nixon and then Reagan, and have used ever since. One of their mutual advisors directly said they had to change the vocabulary they were using so they could appeal to racist voters without being explicitly racist. I'm sure you've seen that quote many times but have never taken it seriously.

It allows people like you to defend his positions despite the fact they are almost certainly targeting the racist vote. It leaves you free to ignore the implication and litigate the literal, but the literal is rarely where messaging lies.

I don't have an answer to that approach, nobody does, which is why it's so effective in politics. The black and LGBTQ communities hated Kirk because his messaging always served to dehumanize them and make their lives worse. He called for a ban on affirmation therapy and got it, which is catastrophic for the people who desperately need it.
"People like me"? Is that where we're at? Im well aware of the southern strategy, but what exactly is your point? You imply without actually giving a position. Is it racist for conservatives to talk about crime in black communities? Is it racist for a white conservative to criticize anything to do with anything related to black people? Is this your position? I dont know. Arguing that theres a secret message hidden in the meaning of what they say is a pretty big stretch, even assuming you're right. Ive brought it up before, I dont remember if it was with you or not, but more and more when Im talking with progressives the accusation is essentially thought crimes. Its not what they do or say, but what they think when they say or do it. This isnt a persuasive argument.

The whole notion that Kirk is racist because of what an advisor told Nixon 25 years before Kirk was born borders on conspiracy theory. You're essentially sweeping any and all criticism a conservative can make about crime statistics in the black community or any social issues under the umbrella of racism, and thats not a very honest argument. I know you know black conservatives exist, and there are black people that would agree with Kirks views. Are they just targeting the racist vote? Are they racist themselves? Have they all just been fooled? Are they hateful? These are all valid questions given what you're implying, but Im gonna go out on a limb and say you dont have a very good answer to any of them.

In the other Kirk thread somebody posted an hour long vid of a black podcaster going through every single Kirk racism accusation and making a counter argument as to why it was either inaccurate or fabricated.


Is he just a swindler? Is he conning people? Is he just trying to appeal to the racist vote? None of these make any sense do they? Step back for a second and anyone can see that sometimes people just disagree. It doesnt make them bad people, or have bad intentions, even if theyre wrong.

Lately I've also noticed you've been speaking for entire groups of people that you are absolutely not a part of shouldnt be speaking for. Youre saying the black community hated Kirk. No, this isnt true at all. Theres black conservatives that agree with him and black people are defending him. Like this guy:



bd68933d-3852-48a5-8cff-94e7d4902816.jpg


Do you not consider them part of the black community? Because you certainly dont speak for them, and its completely out of line for you to speak for the black community as a whole. Same with trans community. Many do not share your outlook, and the fact that you feel comfortable speaking for them as a whole is slightly troubling. Personally, Ive only known 3 trans people. A married couple and one other person. They were all trans before it became a political hot topic. One is actually pretty conservative, the other are pretty normal. But make no mistake, all 3 of them think you're wrong about most if not all of your positions. They think trans affirming care is horrendous, and all of them went through years of therapy as an adult before deciding to transition. All 3 of them think anything to do with allowing minors to transition is monstrous. Their positions, not mine. Theres a sizable amount of people in the trans community that are simply not activists and just want to be left alone, or treated like a man/woman instead of "trans". They dont want strangers on the street coming up to them and hugging them for being "brave". They actually dont want any acknowledgement whatsoever about them being trans. They just want everyone to treat them like a normal man/woman. You dont speak for these people, Lo. And again, its troubling that you think you can. I would never say the trans community aligns with the beliefs of the 3 that I know, but I also would never attempt to speak for the community as a whole.

More and more what I realize is that progressives are getting to a point where mere disagreement is hate in and of itself, and that hate is self evident for whatever reason. You and I dont agree on Trans affirmation therapy. I think it does more harm than good, and in 60 years it will be viewed the same way as shocking the gay out of people is viewed today. With that said, I dont think for a moment that you or anybody that support it are hateful or anti-trans. You think this is the best possible thing for them. I dont agree with you at all, but I also dont condemn you as a hateful bigot. The left largely does not share this outlook. It feels like you dont share this outlook. They dont believe that someone like me will disagree with them because I think the best thing for trans people is the opposite of what they think. Even in your post your insinuation is that being against affirmation therapy is a criticism of someone as a person, as opposed to a decision about a policy that can be argued to be more good than bad or vice versa. This outlook is exactly the reason Charlie Kirk is dead right now. Dont misunderstand me, I 100% believe you when you condemn the murder and all political violence. But this mentality that Im seeing. The idea that disagreement is hate, only leads to bad ideas and bad consequences. This is what we're seeing now and it isnt going to fix itself.
 
"People like me"? Is that where we're at? Im well aware of the southern strategy, but what exactly is your point? You imply without actually giving a position. Is it racist for conservatives to talk about crime in black communities? Is it racist for a white conservative to criticize anything to do with anything related to black people? Is this your position? I dont know. Arguing that theres a secret message hidden in the meaning of what they say is a pretty big stretch, even assuming you're right. Ive brought it up before, I dont remember if it was with you or not, but more and more when Im talking with progressives the accusation is essentially thought crimes. Its not what they do or say, but what they think when they say or do it. This isnt a persuasive argument.

The whole notion that Kirk is racist because of what an advisor told Nixon 25 years before Kirk was born borders on conspiracy theory. You're essentially sweeping any and all criticism a conservative can make about crime statistics in the black community or any social issues under the umbrella of racism, and thats not a very honest argument. I know you know black conservatives exist, and there are black people that would agree with Kirks views. Are they just targeting the racist vote? Are they racist themselves? Have they all just been fooled? Are they hateful? These are all valid questions given what you're implying, but Im gonna go out on a limb and say you dont have a very good answer to any of them.

In the other Kirk thread somebody posted an hour long vid of a black podcaster going through every single Kirk racism accusation and making a counter argument as to why it was either inaccurate or fabricated.


Is he just a swindler? Is he conning people? Is he just trying to appeal to the racist vote? None of these make any sense do they? Step back for a second and anyone can see that sometimes people just disagree. It doesnt make them bad people, or have bad intentions, even if theyre wrong.

Lately I've also noticed you've been speaking for entire groups of people that you are absolutely not a part of shouldnt be speaking for. Youre saying the black community hated Kirk. No, this isnt true at all. Theres black conservatives that agree with him and black people are defending him. Like this guy:



View attachment 1113789


Do you not consider them part of the black community? Because you certainly dont speak for them, and its completely out of line for you to speak for the black community as a whole. Same with trans community. Many do not share your outlook, and the fact that you feel comfortable speaking for them as a whole is slightly troubling. Personally, Ive only known 3 trans people. A married couple and one other person. They were all trans before it became a political hot topic. One is actually pretty conservative, the other are pretty normal. But make no mistake, all 3 of them think you're wrong about most if not all of your positions. They think trans affirming care is horrendous, and all of them went through years of therapy as an adult before deciding to transition. All 3 of them think anything to do with allowing minors to transition is monstrous. Their positions, not mine. Theres a sizable amount of people in the trans community that are simply not activists and just want to be left alone, or treated like a man/woman instead of "trans". They dont want strangers on the street coming up to them and hugging them for being "brave". They actually dont want any acknowledgement whatsoever about them being trans. They just want everyone to treat them like a normal man/woman. You dont speak for these people, Lo. And again, its troubling that you think you can. I would never say the trans community aligns with the beliefs of the 3 that I know, but I also would never attempt to speak for the community as a whole.

More and more what I realize is that progressives are getting to a point where mere disagreement is hate in and of itself, and that hate is self evident for whatever reason. You and I dont agree on Trans affirmation therapy. I think it does more harm than good, and in 60 years it will be viewed the same way as shocking the gay out of people is viewed today. With that said, I dont think for a moment that you or anybody that support it are hateful or anti-trans. You think this is the best possible thing for them. I dont agree with you at all, but I also dont condemn you as a hateful bigot. The left largely does not share this outlook. It feels like you dont share this outlook. They dont believe that someone like me will disagree with them because I think the best thing for trans people is the opposite of what they think. Even in your post your insinuation is that being against affirmation therapy is a criticism of someone as a person, as opposed to a decision about a policy that can be argued to be more good than bad or vice versa. This outlook is exactly the reason Charlie Kirk is dead right now. Dont misunderstand me, I 100% believe you when you condemn the murder and all political violence. But this mentality that Im seeing. The idea that disagreement is hate, only leads to bad ideas and bad consequences. This is what we're seeing now and it isnt going to fix itself.


People like you who always take the conservative position, no matter what.
 
People like you who always take the conservative position, no matter what.
Really? Thats your take? Why am I pro choice? Pro gay marriage? Pro gun control? This is a seriously bad take from you and its emblematic of my exact point.
 
Really? Thats your take? Why am I pro choice? Pro gay marriage? Pro gun control? This is a seriously bad take from you and its emblematic of my exact point.
Another supremacist absolutely humbled, well done Bob.
 
Oh my god bro, muh context, lmao
Yeah, context is immensely important. Im not exaggerating when I say its saddening to see how little it matters anymore. Not trying to sound condescending, but arent you a bit younger than some of us? Like late 20's? I just say it because that's was Rush Limbaughs game in the 90's. Conservatives loved him and liberals obviously pulled their hair out over his quote snips. That was one of his big tactics. He was good at it and it worked, but its disheartening to see the side that condemned it so much now openly embrace it.
 
Yeah, context is immensely important. Im not exaggerating when I say its saddening to see how little it matters anymore. Not trying to sound condescending, but arent you a bit younger than some of us? Like late 20's? I just say it because that's was Rush Limbaughs game in the 90's. Conservatives loved him and liberals obviously pulled their hair out over his quote snips. That was one of his big tactics. He was good at it and it worked, but its disheartening to see the side that condemned it so much now openly embrace it.
I'm almost 40.

Context doesn't help Kirk and if you have to become a contortionist to defend someone's statements that's a sign they are actually just a dickhead
 
I'm almost 40.

Context doesn't help Kirk and if you have to become a contortionist to defend someone's statements that's a sign they are actually just a dickhead
Explaining context is not some labrybthine logical leap. Classic example is the empathy quote. Just giving half of what he says distorts its meaning. Its not rocket science.
 
IQ is on the rise.

Progress. You'll get there one day champ.
While I do disagree with him a lot, this attitude and flippant responses isn't gonna get anywhere. The whole Kirk thing is a unique situation because it presents a legitimate example of how disinformation and rhetoric can have massively negative results. But responses like this wont reach anybody and will only get people to dig their heels even deeper.
 
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