Exposing the Grift: Go Woke Go Broke

[SuperAlly]

That's all good for a clickbait artist that you seem to put a lot of stock into. You're debating with me. Not little Benny.


Well, I can agree that some take it too far. Lord knows I've given the "'Kill Bill' would be considered 'woke', and Tarantino would be getting destroyed by some today" example a million times. It doesn't erase actual woke projects, though. You're coming from a position that it actually doesn't exist, and it's all just one big grift or whatever. That is patently false. It exists, and it's horrible.

The guy ha just punked himself massively in this thread and it’s why I take great delight every time there is another example that shows the grift is him and his ilk.

There’s like 3 guys in here who like to deny reality despite all the evidence against their position.

 

[SuperAlly]

BTW, this thread is in large part about grifters and the phrase, hence the title, Benny falls into that category. He burned a barbie doll lmao. Clickbait artist could constitute grifter, no? Critical goof also had plenty of hot takes before movies like Barbie came out.

I don't put stock into what these people have to say or I wouldn't have made this thread

Yet you are the only one who knows who this guy is, the only one who brings him up. There’s only one who knows intimate details about the performer behind critical drinker.

You seem quite obsessed about these people.

Seems like you put a lot of stock into these people, hence making a thread about them.

Own goal #433555678893 on this topic be the deviant.

 

[SuperAlly]

What don't you understand?

Almost everything in life.

 

[SuperAlly]

Concession accepted.

When he realises you have his number intellectually and he cannot actually form logically valid arguments to counter you he will ignore you.

He made this thread in the false assumption many of the far left do where they like to pretend they are intellectually superior to everyone who doesn’t share their extreme politics. Then when you continue to show him up, his ego and his little brain can’t take the shame so he will go into hiding.

 

[SuperAlly]

Yet you'll never quote a single poster in here making this argument.

This is about as devastating as me just calling you all flat-earthers because some dumbfuck right-winger is. Hell, I'd be more accurate as about half you trump humpers are actual flat earthers in here.

You project a retarded, made up worldview to justify yourself getting played by a conman.

lol.

This thread has nothing to do with trump, flat earth or anything else.

People are just tired of identity messed up politics destroying what used to be fantastic entertainment IPs

Once someone assumes you are a trump fan just because they can’t argue against your point of view and they have no idea on your views on him, you know they have completely and utterly lost the debate.

The trump insults are the last refuge of the far left loonies in their safe spaces. “This person doesn’t agree with my extreme mental politics, only explanation is they vote Trump”. You guys need to be less small minded. It’s pathetic stuff,

 

[Madmick]

Yet you'll never quote a single poster in here making this argument.

This is about as devastating as me just calling you all flat-earthers because some dumbfuck right-winger is. Hell, I'd be more accurate as about half you trump humpers are actual flat earthers in here.

You project a retarded, made up worldview to justify yourself getting played by a conman.

False equivalence.

There's no flat earth movement with real traction at a macro-political level among the American right. Now, if you wanted to talk about an alarming rise in global warming denialism, or anti-vaccination ignorance, that would be fair.

Meanwhile, there is very much a real movement that has taken hold of the left that has pushed for pronouns, transgender rights, DEI hiring, and an agenda to relentlessly push minorities of the Mary Sue variety in popular media like film, books, videogames, as well as in awards for these efforts, and hiring practices across industries. People notice a conspicuous frequency of black, gay, female supergenius scientists who happen to espouse hyperliberal poltical views suddenly popping up seemingly everywhere. It's transparent, it's real, and it's not at all analogous to the flat earth whackos (who appear on both the political left and the right). Policies ascribing to this nonsense have been embraced and implemented at the highest levels of left-wing parties across the first world.

 

[SuperAlly]

False equivalence.

There's no flat earth movement with real traction at a macro-political level among the American right. Now, if you wanted to talk about an alarming rise in global warming denialism, or anti-vaccination ignorance, that would be fair.

Meanwhile, there is very much a real movement that has taken hold of the left that has pushed for pronouns, transgender rights, DEI hiring, and an agenda to relentlessly push minorities of the Mary Sue variety in popular media like film, books, videogames, as well as in awards for these efforts, and hiring practices across industries. People notice a conspicuous frequency of black, gay, female supergenius scientists who happen to espouse hyperliberal poltical views suddenly popping up seemingly everywhere. It's transparent, it's real, and it's not at all analogous to the flat earth whackos (who appear on both the political left and the right). Policies ascribing to this nonsense have been embraced and implemented at the highest levels of left-wing parties across the first world.

It's like the fear if they admit this one fault from their side of the political debate (woke nonsense is ruining entertainment) then it completely invalidates their entire world view and political ideology.

This is not the case.

But when you try and deny such blatant and obvious catastrophic fuvk ups by your "team" and pretend complete infallibility, you just leave yourself open to ridicule and destroy any credibility you may have in any political debate. Everyone knows you are such a deranged zealot and are too insanely biased that your views on other topics, which may be reasonable, will be dismissed.

It's undeniable now, they played the woke card too hard in movies, tv and games to the point of absurdity and destroyed many formerly enormously successful and popular IPs

Denying something that is so self evidently true makes you look a fool.

Better sometimes to concede the battles you have lost or damage your chances in future.

 

[Darkballs]

False equivalence.

There's no flat earth movement with real traction at a macro-political level among the American right. Now, if you wanted to talk about an alarming rise in global warming denialism, or anti-vaccination ignorance, that would be fair.

Meanwhile, there is very much a real movement that has taken hold of the left that has pushed for pronouns, transgender rights, DEI hiring, and an agenda to relentlessly push minorities of the Mary Sue variety in popular media like film, books, videogames, as well as in awards for these efforts, and hiring practices across industries. People notice a conspicuous frequency of black, gay, female supergenius scientists who happen to espouse hyperliberal poltical views suddenly popping up seemingly everywhere. It's transparent, it's real, and it's not at all analogous to the flat earth whackos (who appear on both the political left and the right). Policies ascribing to this nonsense have been embraced and implemented at the highest levels of left-wing parties across the first world.

This idiocy is debunked by the very fact that I could, right now, point out about half a dozen trump supporters in the war room who promote flat earth theories. Neither you, nor anyone else, will be able to cite a single poster here arguing that "men can get pregnant."

And that doesn't change just because you want to jump into a topic and broaden those parameters from the war room (what we were talking about), to the wider world. Because mentioning that DEI is a thing doesn't mean that liberals in here (or elsewhere) are arguing the literal idea that biological men can get pregnant.

And it would be better if we pushed back on such meaningless deflections. For instance, when a trump supporter mentions the left believing that men getting pregnant as proof that video games are woke. THAT is a false equivalence.

But thanks for jumping in here with this dumb shit. I'll be sure to just spam "but you think [insert something a poster never said], so I win" whenever I'm struggling to defend a position. We definitely need more of that in the war room.

 

[Madmick]

This idiocy is debunked by the very fact that I could, right now, point out about half a dozen trump supporters in the war room who promote flat earth theories. Neither you, nor anyone else, will be able to cite a single poster here arguing that "men can get pregnant."

And that doesn't change just because you want to jump into a topic and broaden those parameters from the war room (what we were talking about), to the wider world. Because mentioning that DEI is a thing doesn't mean that liberals in here (or elsewhere) are arguing the literal idea that biological men can get pregnant.

And it would be better if we pushed back on such meaningless deflections. For instance, when a trump supporter mentions the left believing that men getting pregnant as proof that video games are woke. THAT is a false equivalence.

But thanks for jumping in here with this dumb shit. I'll be sure to just spam "but you think [insert something a poster never said], so I win" whenever I'm struggling to defend a position. We definitely need more of that in the war room.

LOL, someone's a bit prickly, eh?

Perhaps if you're going to try to shoehorn someone's much larger argument into a strawman this narrowly stuffed, you should read more carefully. He never said anything about "biological men" getting pregnant. As you yourself quoted:

You're the party of "Men can get pregnant", and you're still acting all aloof as to what "woke" is.

FOX NEWS: Planned Parenthood doctor tells Congress men can get pregnant: ‘This is medicine’​

"Men can have pregnancies, especially trans men," said Dr. Bhavik Kumar, medical director for primary and trans care at Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast...Somebody with a uterus may have the capability of becoming pregnant, whether they’re a woman or a man," Kumar said. "That doesn’t make a difference."

Clyde rejected that answer and said basic biology holds that men and women have different chromosomes that make the two sexes different and gives only women the option of bearing children.

"I can’t believe it’s necessary to say this, but men cannot get pregnant and cannot give birth, regardless of how they identify themselves," Clyde said. "Why in the world would Democrats have brought in a person whose title is ‘director of trans care’ for an abortion hearing when only biological women can become pregnant?"

This was, of course, a zinger that @HereticBD deployed distilling the larger woke movement which he previously described as quite real, and well fed on the political left. You have deliberately misrepresented the object of its scorn, politically speaking, and the rational nature of this derision. The rational basis, of course, as that Republican lawmaker pointed out, is that there are some truths determined by the reality of our condition, in this case one of biological sex, which can't be wished away by simply "identifying" as something one isn't. This broaches a larger debate over to what degree it is morally compulsory in burdening others to accept and acknowledge these delusions of "identity" as a matter of law.

But, by all means, waste more time ranting against an argument that is purely a delusion of your own dimwitted misapprehension.

 

[avenue94]

Your recent arguments all seem to be “woke games aren’t financial disasters because other financial disasters exist”.

This isn’t a refutation of people being sick of woke crap entertainment products.

Ignore “go woke, go broke, because there are also sometimes other bad things that fail”.

The company themselves have self confessed veilguard massively underperformed to the point all the people working on it have to find new jobs.

Man City are having a crap season so Man United aren’t having a crap season is your current logically invalid argument of choice and no one is buying it no matter how many times you reassert it.

No, I'm saying that most of the "woke games" that underperformed clearly underperformed due to more obvious reasons, such as development challenges or longstanding slides in quality and performance for that studio. And no shit Bioware had layoffs, because they have consistently not produced financial successes. They had bigger layoffs after Mass Effect Andromeda missed expectations. EA FC won't cause as many layoffs because it's an annual studio that regularly produces money and is also a much more important dev team.

I do note: You still haven't managed to define woke once. I can only assume that it's because you're spazzing out and don't actually have a definition for woke.

 

[SuperAlly]

No, I'm saying that most of the "woke games" that underperformed clearly underperformed due to more obvious reasons, such as development challenges or longstanding slides in quality and performance for that studio. And no shit Bioware had layoffs, because they have consistently not produced financial successes. They had bigger layoffs after Mass Effect Andromeda missed expectations. EA FC won't cause as many layoffs because it's an annual studio that regularly produces money and is also a much more important dev team.

I do note: You still haven't managed to define woke once. I can only assume that it's because you're spazzing out and don't actually have a definition for woke.

You are disingenuous

They have specifically laid off the people involved with dragon age

When it doesn't suit your poltical agenda you try and disguise clearly woke failures in amongst general failures where this cannot be logically or honestly done.

They haven't just got rid of staff generally. They have very specifically got rid of people responsible for this woke failure.

Carry on being disingenuous because you cannot concede any single point of extreme left wing politics not being popular with the wider public.

Embarrassing and disingenuous stuff once more.

 

[SuperAlly]

I do note: You still haven't managed to define woke once. I can only assume that it's because you're spazzing out and don't actually have a definition for woke.

You appear to be the one "spazzing out"* as you continually misrepresent arguments and just act in a dishonest and deceitful way.

I notice a very clear definition of woke was provided in recent posts and pages that the king (or queen, I don't know your pronouns) of disingenuity can pretend they haven't read.

* "sparring out" isn't very woke of you is it. Will you get admonished at the next luncheon of the far left lunatic brigade.

Just stop punking yourself buddy. It's embarrassing.

Far left extremism is being widely derided by all.

 

[avenue94]

You are disingenuous

They have specifically laid off the people involved with dragon age

Yes, they either transferred them to ME4 or laid them off. Because Bioware hasn't produced a big hit in over a decade.

They haven't just got rid of staff generally. They have very specifically got rid of people responsible for this woke failure.

EA opened up last year by cutting 5% of global headcount and cut 50 staff from BioWare in 2023, and they closed all of Bioware Austin years earlier. And as I mentioned, EA FC won't be affected as much because it's an annual title that usually produces the funds needed to back AAA studio bets from the likes of Bioware.

I notice a very clear definition of woke was provided in recent posts and pages that the king (or queen, I don't know your pronouns) of disingenuity can pretend they haven't read.

Then go ahead an post what definition you use. Should be easy then, I haven't been in this thread much. And odd how you're so obsessed with being anti-woke or whatever and yet you're the one fretting about pronouns. You've jumped the shark.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Regards your middle paragraph, you can deny reality that woke projects are costing entertainment companies money but that doesn't make it so.

If for example, Veilguard isn't a problem as a woke financial failure, why it specifically the people working on those projects who have been let go.

People can keep telling the rest of the world black is white, down is up, but the rest of us don't have to engage in that delusion.

There are too many examples now that prioritising woke agendas over just making good entertainment is a failed strategy.

A few people who are completely warped by their political ideology can keep pretending it isn't so. And evidently will.

The problem with these dumb "woke" debates is that the ONLY thing you right wingers focus on is this nebulous idea of what 'woke' is. The "Go woke, go broke" argument doesn't even make sense because if the issue was a matter of it being too "woke" why wouldn't the woke people be buying it? There would still be an audience for these products if they were good.

Does some of these current cultural hot issues play A PART in the failure of these games? Yes, absolutely. But most normal people are not liking or hating something based off of how "woke" it is.
At the end of the day, the product is either entertaining and good, or it isn't.

As someone that was a big Dragon Age fan, played the original at least a dozen times, and have played Veil Guard....the issue with Veilguard is similar to the issues with the last 3 or 4 Marvel movies....shit, cringe writing and the developers having no idea who their player base was and what their expectations were.
You guys keep talking about "woke", but don't talk about the actual game. The gameplay was repetitive and boring. You can only control your player, when in past games you could control your other party members. The tone of the game felt like a jokey Marvel movie, which is a major departure from the Original Dragon Age. The pacing of the story was off.
Dragon Age: Inquisition wasn't as gritty as the original, but it was far more in line with the original than Veilguard. This game felt like it was made by people that didn't understand the game.
The 'woke' cringe dialogue of a gender fluid character didn't help the game, but, it sure as hell wasn't anywhere near the biggest problem.

 

[avenue94]

You guys keep talking about "woke", but don't talk about the actual game. The gameplay was repetitive and boring. You can only control your player, when in past games you could control your other party members. The tone of the game felt like a jokey Marvel movie, which is a major departure from the Original Dragon Age. The pacing of the story was off.

A lot of these folks simply don't know the gaming industry well enough to understand that Bioware of the past few years is very different from ME trilogy era Bioware. Same with Ubisoft or EA as a whole. They can only see the the most recent miss, not the several consistent misses that have been happening for years.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

A lot of these folks simply don't know the gaming industry well enough to understand that Bioware of the past few years is very different from ME trilogy era Bioware. Same with Ubisoft or EA as a whole. They can only see the the most recent miss, not the several consistent misses that have been happening for years.

Yep, the gaming industry isn't the same anymore, and 'woke' has so little to do with the problems that these people sound like boomers that haven't played a game since the Atari.
Bioware was chasing trends and moved away from what made them successful in the first place. There are brands that were known for certain things, and fans would follow that studio for that thing.
But studios aren't the same in how they run things today, and monetization methods have changed. With the cost and time it takes to develop games these days, you can't develop a bunch of games for 5 or 6 years, fail, and then last long as a studio.

 

[avenue94]

Yep, the gaming industry isn't the same anymore, and 'woke' has so little to do with the problems that these people sound like boomers that haven't played a game since the Atari.
Bioware was chasing trends and moved away from what made them successful in the first place. There are brands that were known for certain things, and fans would follow that studio for that thing.
But studios aren't the same in how they run things today, and monetization methods have changed. With the cost and time it takes to develop games these days, you can't develop a bunch of games for 5 or 6 years, fail, and then last long as a studio.

Pretty much. Most people don't understand the structure for most major publishers. Your AAA studios are moonshots, funded by your annual releases (sports franchises usually), which are boring and never great but they pay the bills so to speak. Bioware's main issue is similar to ubisoft, it was a moonshot that succeeded but the studio never scaled up properly, and as a result it consistently struggled to manage big projects.

 

[Darkballs]

LOL, someone's a bit prickly, eh?

When you card people for slander while refusing to tell them what they supposedly said that was slanderous; and then go to bat for actual slander, well that makes you a complete hypocrite.

But your logic is still retarded. According to you, it wasn't slanderous to accuse another poster of believing that men could get pregnant, even if that poster never argued that position. How? Well, that poster was a liberal. And all liberals believe in DEI (news to me). And the idea of men getting pregnant sure sounds DEI'y. Therefore, all liberals believe that men can get pregnant.

You can dress that up with a ton of unnecessary thesaurus use, but it's still a stupid position. Address the points posters actually make. Don't accuse the poster of having the same position as Planned Parenthood just because you label both of them as liberal.

Because according to you, the following statement is 100% true: Madmick is in support of offering coworkers horses in exchange for handjobs. You've never made such a claim? Doesn't matter. Because you see, Elon Musk is an incel and an occasional republican. Musk also admitted to offering a girl a horse in exchange for a handjob. He got sued for it. You are also an incel and an occasional republican. Therefore, because all incels believe the same thing, nothing I have said is slander.

Can you spot the fault in the above paragraph? If so, apply it to your own statements. This isn't hard Mick. Argue the points posters actually make. Don't put words in their mouths and start strawmanning them the moment you start flailing. If you really are against slander, this wouldn't be a challenge.

 

[SuperAlly]

Yes, they either transferred them to ME4 or laid them off. Because Bioware hasn't produced a big hit in over a decade.

EA opened up last year by cutting 5% of global headcount and cut 50 staff from BioWare in 2023, and they closed all of Bioware Austin years earlier. And as I mentioned, EA FC won't be affected as much because it's an annual title that usually produces the funds needed to back AAA studio bets from the likes of Bioware.

Then go ahead an post what definition you use. Should be easy then, I haven't been in this thread much. And odd how you're so obsessed with being anti-woke or whatever and yet you're the one fretting about pronouns. You've jumped the shark.

Lol at the guy who has been performing triple front flips over jaws for pages and pages now accusing anyone else of the same.

I assume this is another "woke things aren't bad because other bad things exist post.

Keep being wrong. No one believes your nonsense.

 

[Madmick]

When you card people for slander while refusing to tell them what they supposedly said that was slanderous; and then go to bat for actual slander, well that makes you a complete hypocrite.

But your logic is still retarded. According to you, it wasn't slanderous to accuse another poster of believing that men could get pregnant, even if that poster never argued that position. How? Well, that poster was a liberal. And all liberals believe in DEI (news to me). And the idea of men getting pregnant sure sounds DEI'y. Therefore, all liberals believe that men can get pregnant.

You can dress that up with a ton of unnecessary thesaurus use, but it's still a stupid position. Address the points posters actually make. Don't accuse the poster of having the same position as Planned Parenthood just because you label both of them as liberal.

Because according to you, the following statement is 100% true: Madmick is in support of offering coworkers horses in exchange for handjobs. You've never made such a claim? Doesn't matter. Because you see, Elon Musk is an incel and an occasional republican. Musk also admitted to offering a girl a horse in exchange for a handjob. He got sued for it. You are also an incel and an occasional republican. Therefore, because all incels believe the same thing, nothing I have said is slander.

Can you spot the fault in the above paragraph? If so, apply it to your own statements. This isn't hard Mick. Argue the points posters actually make. Don't put words in their mouths and start strawmanning them the moment you start flailing. If you really are against slander, this wouldn't be a challenge.

Where did Heretic accuse another poster of making the claim, "Biological men can get pregnant"?