Evolution of MMA is more hype...

[TrueFightFan]

Ngannou is much better than rogers and zulu who both were pretty bad. Not sure why you’d lump them together. It’s not helpful to your point.

Why is Ngannou better than Rogers? As for Zulu, if Zulu were to train now or Ngannou had only what was available to Zulu then, would they be comparable?

Yes, Ngannou hits really fucking hard but look at how Miocic made him look like a slow dinosaur and Lewis turned him into a scared kitten. He is the flavor of the week but what surprises me is how many Sherdoggers overlook his tremendous lack of skill to anoint him as a future GOAT. It is going to sound funny but I think that even Brock Lesnar could beat Ngannou (younger Brock) because Lesnar didn't like to get hit but he could take a punch and if Miocic could take down Ngannou, Lesnar definitely could as well and then just grind him out.

 

[TrueFightFan]

What does this mean?

Mma at the time of ufc 1 was limited to a very small subset of mostly crazy people.

Crazy or confident enough in their abilities....let's just say big fucking balls.

 

[kflo]

Why is Ngannou better than Rogers? As for Zulu, if Zulu were to train now or Ngannou had only what was available to Zulu then, would they be comparable?

Yes, Ngannou hits really fucking hard but look at how Miocic made him look like a slow dinosaur and Lewis turned him into a scared kitten. He is the flavor of the week but what surprises me is how many Sherdoggers overlook his tremendous lack of skill to anoint him as a future GOAT. It is going to sound funny but I think that even Brock Lesnar could beat Ngannou (younger Brock) because Lesnar didn't like to get hit but he could take a punch and if Miocic could take down Ngannou, Lesnar definitely could as well and then just grind him out.

rogers literally had 10 seconds of success against good competition in his entire career. he had zero balance and was easily put on his ass by both fedor and overeem in opening exchanges. there's nothing to support rogers having the ability to do what ngannou has done. i'd say the jury is still out on ngannou's upside and improvement but he's way more accomplished and clearly better by alot than rogers was.

 

[kflo]

Crazy or confident enough in their abilities....let's just say big fucking balls.

big balls for sure, but they also had no idea how their abilities stacked up against the other competitors. most of them anyway.

 

[kflo]

Kflow, this might be one of the first posts that I "like" of yours or somewhat agree with...

This post was in regards to the evolution of MMA vs the evolution of the Sport. All of the training and technique in the world won't save you from seeing the light if you get popped by Ngannou. However, have fighters evolved enough to be competitive in open weight tournaments? It almost seems that by placing all of the rules, constraints and weight classes on "the sport", we are actually stymying that evolution. Demetrious Johnson doesn't even have to think about or train on how to beat Ngannou or Miocic. How much would/could he improve as a fighter if he knew that he had to face him in 6 to 8 weeks in a no time limit fight with very few rules?

and here i'll even agree with you in that fighters haven't had to evolve to deal with significant size / weight differences except for some smaller hw's. and fighters don't worry about what their own personal optimal weight is for fighting in context of an open weight fight, but what their optimal weight class is within the sport of mma.

still, that doesn't mean fighters haven't evolved.

if mma stayed as just an open weight competition, it's likely it wouldn't have gained in popularity as it has, and it's likely you'd have had less progress in overall fighting anyway.

 

[TrueFightFan]

rogers literally had 10 seconds of success against good competition in his entire career. he had zero balance and was easily put on his ass by both fedor and overeem in opening exchanges. there's nothing to support rogers having the ability to do what ngannou has done. i'd say the jury is still out on ngannou's upside and improvement but he's way more accomplished and clearly better by alot than rogers was.

Accomplished only in the fact that most of his fights have been in the UFC. He got spanked by Miocic (seriously exposed as one dimensional) and then Lewis showed that Ngannou has no heart. But this points to the fact that the evolution that every MMA pundit touts is actually not there.

 

[kflo]

Accomplished only in the fact that most of his fights have been in the UFC. He got spanked by Miocic (seriously exposed as one dimensional) and then Lewis showed that Ngannou has no heart. But this points to the fact that the evolution that every MMA pundit touts is actually not there.

Not sure what ngannou being much better than Rogers proves.

 

[TrueFightFan]

and here i'll even agree with you in that fighters haven't had to evolve to deal with significant size / weight differences except for some smaller hw's. and fighters don't worry about what their own personal optimal weight is for fighting in context of an open weight fight, but what their optimal weight class is within the sport of mma.

still, that doesn't mean fighters haven't evolved.

if mma stayed as just an open weight competition, it's likely it wouldn't have gained in popularity as it has, and it's likely you'd have had less progress in overall fighting anyway.

This is exactly my point.... the fighting hasn't evolved, the sport itself is what has evolved.

 

[kflo]

This is exactly my point.... the fighting hasn't evolved, the sport itself is what has evolved.

The fighting has too.

 

[TrueFightFan]

Not sure what ngannou being much better than Rogers proves.

Just showing the lack of evolution...

 

[TrueFightFan]

The fighting has too.

This is where I don't agree. You can spam jabs and/or takedowns to get you through the rounds and win a fight based on points. Old UFC rules.... that doesn't work. You have to finish the fight. Fighters may know and train on more techniques but that doesn't mean the fighting itself has evolved. All of that training just gets them to start a round strong, finish a round strong, work for "octagon control", work for damage points, demonstrate dominance, blah, blah, blah.... Can you finish the fight? That's all that matters under the old rules.

 

[kflo]

This is where I don't agree. You can spam jabs and/or takedowns to get you through the rounds and win a fight based on points. Old UFC rules.... that doesn't work. You have to finish the fight. Fighters may know and train on more techniques but that doesn't mean the fighting itself has evolved. All of that training just gets them to start a round strong, finish a round strong, work for "octagon control", work for damage points, demonstrate dominance, blah, blah, blah.... Can you finish the fight? That's all that matters under the old rules.

The fighters were just much more inferior. So if you took today’s fighters and put them in ufc 1 they would absolutely dominate.

 

[kflo]

Just showing the lack of evolution...

Ngannou being better than Rogers doesn’t show a lack of evolution.

 

[Allosaurus Fragillis]

Khabib cuts weight for a size and strength advantage. Once he can't do that, he would have to rely on his skill. He is very hittable and relies heavily on the current MMA ruleset to win fights. In a UFC 1 style tournament, he is now getting hit by bigger guys and does not have rules and rounds to protect him but his fans seem to have more faith in him than he does in himself....he literally kills himself to avoid guys his size or bigger. Why don't you send him a letter to boost his confidence?

Literally almost everyone Khabib has fought in the UFC is better than the guys from UFC 1. Conor, Dustin, Justin, RDA, Barboza, even Al Iaquinta and Michael Johnson would smash everyone from UFC 1 too. And Khabib dominated them all.
Royce Gracie was able to beat everyone else from UFC 1 because of his superior skills on the ground. Khabib is basically Royce Gracie but with better striking, wrestling, and cardio. Khabib would ragdoll everyone from UFC 1.
Also what do you mean Khabib is very hittable? Khabib has some of the best footwork and head movement in the UFC, and he has only been tagged a handful of times. He has never been dropped or seriously hurt before, and he has fought some of the best strikes in the Lightweight division. There is a reason Khabib is 29-0, he's not just a great wrestler, he's much more than that.

 

[Allosaurus Fragillis]

Hendrix, Sanchez, Penn, Hughes, McDonald...the list goes on. Look at his skillset, what skills does he posess that show "advancement" as a martial artist?

I just don't see how any of those guys would stand a chance against Usman. There is a reason they call him the Nigerian nightmare. Kamaru's size, power, durability, wrestling, and insane cardio make him a nightmare match up for almost everyone he fights. That's the reason why he has been so dominant, there isn't many holes in his game that guys can exploit. His only weakness is that he seems to get hit a lot, but his chin is good enough that it doesn't matter.

 

[Allosaurus Fragillis]

I think a few actually. WW was always a wrestling strong division and Usman’s striking isn’t any better than the guys from back then.

I disagree, Usman has one of the best jabs since...well GSP. And he has a lot power in his hands too. Usman's striking might not be as polished as say, Israel Adesanya, or Wonderboy, but it's very effective. As we saw in the Covington and Burns fights.

 

[TrueFightFan]

Ngannou being better than Rogers doesn’t show a lack of evolution.

The fighters were just much more inferior. So if you took today’s fighters and put them in ufc 1 they would absolutely dominate.

Which of "today's fighters" would dominate in an open weight tournament?

Also, you only think that Ngannou is better than Rogers because of the "what have you done for me lately" mentality we all suffer from on Sherdog. If he gets whooped by Miocic again and then has another lackluster performance, like he did against Lewis, everyone on Sherdog will turn on him, like they do everyone else. When your current top 10 HW's include Overeem, Cormier, Lewis and Ryan Bader, you have devolved, my brother.

 

[TrueFightFan]

Literally almost everyone Khabib has fought in the UFC is better than the guys from UFC 1. Conor, Dustin, Justin, RDA, Barboza, even Al Iaquinta and Michael Johnson would smash everyone from UFC 1 too. And Khabib dominated them all.
Royce Gracie was able to beat everyone else from UFC 1 because of his superior skills on the ground. Khabib is basically Royce Gracie but with better striking, wrestling, and cardio. Khabib would ragdoll everyone from UFC 1.
Also what do you mean Khabib is very hittable? Khabib has some of the best footwork and head movement in the UFC, and he has only been tagged a handful of times. He has never been dropped or seriously hurt before, and he has fought some of the best strikes in the Lightweight division. There is a reason Khabib is 29-0, he's not just a great wrestler, he's much more than that.

Yes, because of advanced training, they are better athletes than the guys from back then but which, of the guys that you just mentioned (especially Khabib), wins a UFC 1 style, open weight tournament? Is Khabib taking out Ngannou or Miocic? Is Khabib taking out Usman, Adesanya or jones? This is what I am referring to when I say that the fighters have not "evolved" as much as everyone believes. It is more hype than reality because a true evolution would mean that Khabib would quit being a chickenshit and killing himself to cut weight and fight against anyone in the UFC. He doesn't but you keep going on about how "he can". He obviously doesn't think so.

 

[TrueFightFan]

I disagree, Usman has one of the best jabs since...well GSP. And he has a lot power in his hands too. Usman's striking might not be as polished as say, Israel Adesanya, or Wonderboy, but it's very effective. As we saw in the Covington and Burns fights.

I just don't see how any of those guys would stand a chance against Usman. There is a reason they call him the Nigerian nightmare. Kamaru's size, power, durability, wrestling, and insane cardio make him a nightmare match up for almost everyone he fights. That's the reason why he has been so dominant, there isn't many holes in his game that guys can exploit. His only weakness is that he seems to get hit a lot, but his chin is good enough that it doesn't matter.

See the "Khabib Argument" to find out what I think about Usman in regards to cutting weight. He barely got by Covington with that questionable stoppage and almost every fighter mentioned from 2010 and before would kick his ass. He can compete but he wouldn't dominate.

 

[kflo]

Which of "today's fighters" would dominate in an open weight tournament?

Also, you only think that Ngannou is better than Rogers because of the "what have you done for me lately" mentality we all suffer from on Sherdog. If he gets whooped by Miocic again and then has another lackluster performance, like he did against Lewis, everyone on Sherdog will turn on him, like they do everyone else. When your current top 10 HW's include Overeem, Cormier, Lewis and Ryan Bader, you have devolved, my brother.

he's better than rogers by alot because he's clearly superior everywhere. his record reflects that as well.

almost every top fighter from ww up would probably win ufc 1. khabib prob would too.

not sure why you're including cormier there as if he wouldn't be top 10 in the 2000s, or bader who really doesn't have much of a HW record. and as said, lewis could beat top guys from then and so could overeem. overeem is always borderline because he's still kill or be killed.