Evidence of Jones' Guilt

[Royce's Gi]

Apr 2012: The drug test results for UFC 145 (headlined by Jones) aren't released to the public; Andy Foster (current CSAC director), who publicly supported Jones' innocence throughout 2017-2018, served as the athletic commission's director in Georgia at the time.


Jan 2015: Greg Howard (who spent a lot of time with Jones to write a comprehensive article on him), reported that Jones was rumored to have hid under the octagon when the drug testers showed up at JacksonWink, prior to the first Cormier fight.

Jones confirmed that he did in fact hide under the octagon to avoid drug testers:


Screenshot of Tweet:

Keep in mind, marijuana isn't prohibited out of competition, so there would be no reason for Jones hiding from drug testers. And if he did smoke a blunt close enough to fight night, why didn't Jones' test positive for marijuana? Jones' excuse falls apart easily.

Jones has a suspicious T/E ratio that deviates 80% from his previous reading; the UFC-USADA drug program was not in effect at this time.


Mar 2016: Frank Mir, teammate of Jon Jones, fails drug test for Oral Turinabol.

Jun 2016: Jones tests positive for Clomiphene and Letrozole.

• Jones allegedly claims to have ingested a penis pill.
• The pill, however, contained a third banned substance, of which Jones did not test positive for.
• Jones claimed his friend gave him the pill.
• This friend provided an invoice for the purchase of the pill, and on the same invoice was an order for Clomiphene (one of the two substances Jones was flagged for).
• Common sense dictates that Jones used a middle-man to purchase his PEDs, and bought the penis pill preemptively as an excuse in case he got caught, but never actually ingested the pill, otherwise the third banned substance would've shown up.

Apr 2017: Frank Mir receives a two year suspension as a first time offender for Oral Turinabol.

Aug 2017: During his FOX interview, Jones slips up and says that he defeated Cormier "off steroids". His silence afterwards says more than any words could.



Jul 2017: Jones tests positive for Oral Turinabol, the same substance teammate Frank Mir tested positive for back in March of 2016.

Feb 2018: During Jones' CSAC hearing, it's discovered that:

• He failed to report 10 supplements to United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) prior to his performance at UFC 214, despite signing a document that said he did, and that he only disclosed their existence when they were sent to the lab to be tested for banned substances (after his failed drug test).
  
• Jones admitted he never watched mandated tutorials provided by USADA in both 2015 and 2016, instead passing them off to his management to take in his place (including having them forge his signature to confirm that he took said tutorials).

Precedent:


Cerrone recently said that JacksonWink's main wrestling coach used to be a junior assistant coach at some no-name college and was fired for selling kids steroids:
(Timestamped)


Oct 2017-Jul 2018:

Jones is not tested at any point by USADA.

Sep 2018:

Jones received 4 years, but was able to get his suspension reduced to 15 months as a result of snitching.

Dec 2018:

Jones tests positive for turinabol metabolite:
12/9/18: 60 pg/ml

NSAC denies Jones a license.

It has been reported that Jones failed an additional three drug tests:
7/28/18: 80 pg/ml
8/29/18: 8 pg/ml
9/18/18: 19 pg/ml


In addition to the above study, the longest detection window given by other experts was no greater than 6 months regarding the M3 metabolite; Jones had it in his system for over 18 months, which would've required a new ingestion of Turinabol and thereby debunked the "pulsing" excuse.

Jan 2019:

Jones tests positive for turinabol metabolite (through VADA):
12/28/18: 33 pg/ml

Feb 2019

Jones tests positive for turinabol metabolite:
2/14/19: 40 pg/ml
2/15/19: 20 pg/ml

Oct 2017

Study suggests the M3 metabolite doesn't remain in one's system past 250-300 days, meanwhile Jones was testing positive 543 days after his allegedly single time ingestion, thereby proving that he was ingesting turinabol after his first failed test for it back in 2017:

With regards to the lack of short-term metabolites in Jones' system:


And the pulsing theory was based on a clomiphene study, and despite Jones having taken clomiphene in the past he never pulsed for that substance.

(Timestamped)

Brother explain your titty

 

[Buff]

So your opinion is useless. When you finish sperging out, I got a toilet you will clean.

 

[clutchCAT420]

That sounds like a great point except for the well documented fact that Francis was presented an official contract to fight Jon Jones and Francis is the one that didn't want that fight and ran away, Let's also not forget the time Jones showed up to Francis's new job and literally laughed in his face calling him out for running away because he didn't want that smoke.

Cheap ass wme and dana wanted to pay crumbs. Nganou fucked dana and got more money elsewhere . Dont forget jony and dana had years to offer and set up the fight but knew jony would get ktfo.

 

[StonedLemur]

you say interesting lol, I say engrossing haha

I can certainly agree with that sir lol.

 

[StonedLemur]

If you're talking about his posts, nah he's not. It's incomprehensible babble disguised as something deep. Got as much depth as a tunnel painted by Wile E Coyote.

Unless he's an author I don't know about

Me and you agree about a lot of things but this isn't one of those things sir.
I don't think he's trying to disguise it as anything other than what it is ..and that is writing.

It may not appeal to you and thats fine, but its certain not shit brother.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Me and you agree about a lot of things but this isn't one of those things sir.
I don't think he's trying to disguise it as anything other than what it is ..and that is writing.

It may not appeal to you and thats fine, but its certain not shit brother.

Appeal is subjective. Meaning is not. I don't think he's trying to disguise it, Sherbro. I think his fans do.

Y'all sit there next to the speakers while a guy throws a guitar down the stairs and applaud and go "Wow, what an experimental sound. How progressive."

It's not.

Peace be unto you, brother.

 

[acannxr]

That sounds like a great point except for the well documented fact that Francis was presented an official contract to fight Jon Jones and Francis is the one that didn't want that fight and ran away, Let's also not forget the time Jones showed up to Francis's new job and literally laughed in his face calling him out for running away because he didn't want that smoke.

It's well documented that Jones priced himself out of fighting Ngannou and decided to remain inactive for years until it was clear that Ngannou wasn't going to re-sign with the UFC.

Ngannou wanted a boxing match as part of his contract and the UFC wouldn't give it to him, also his bump in pay was only for one fight.

Case and point:

 

[acannxr]

Often when talking about Jon Jones, people bitterly discredit him by bringing up his failed drug tests. Personally, I think this has no bearing on his GOATness. Here's why.

Cheating is a part of the fight game, and many of the greats have cheated in some capacity. For example:

- Sonny Liston's team used to coat his gloves with some mysterious itchy substance (reported by multiple opponents)

- Muhammad Ali and his coach did the ol' 'my glove is torn, I need a new one' to stall for time

- GSP's team lubed his back against BJ

- Khabib and the magic Abu Dhabi scales

The list goes on and on...

'Cheating' is not a bad thing. It shows that you're willing to do whatever it takes to win. Singling Jon Jones out is unfair. The only problem is that he got caught.

I'm a realist, a pragmatist. I don't live in my own echo chamber where the world is perfect and people are perfect. There is no such thing as a 'pure' fighter. Cheating is sanctioned in MMA, hence why weight cutting is a thing. If there did exist a 'pure' fighter, let me tell you on thing: he wouldn't have done OK in MMA.


- Big Franklin

 

[acannxr]

Updated OP with the recent allegation that Jones threatened a drug tester's life.

 

[fica]

this is all planed. He will fight stipe this incident with doctor tester is so now until a figjt he can use peds because there is no testing until then

 

[VinceArch]

Updated OP with the recent allegation that Jones threatened a drug tester's life.

Making this thread is phenomenal lol. Good job.

 

[krelianx]

Anyone who doubts that Jones was juicing for the better half of his career, and particularly during his early title run and series of defenses, before USADA came along, is naive.

The question is not whether he was cheating, but what one thinks that entails for his legacy.

I personally think it disqualifies him from GOATness, because.

1) PEDs by definition enhance performance, or else people wouldn't take them.
2) Even if we believe his opponents were likewise taking them, we don't know, except a few cases (Belfort, Sonnen, Bonnar...).
3) We do not know what Jones' record would look like without having taken those PEDs.

Take the first Gustaffson fight. That was extremely close. Had he lost that fight without PEDs, his entire legacy changes. The first DC fight was competitive as well.

 

[Luffy]

Anyone who doubts that Jones was juicing for the better half of his career, and particularly during his early title run and series of defenses, before USADA came along, is naive.

The question is not whether he was cheating, but what one thinks that entails for his legacy.

I personally think it disqualifies him from GOATness, because.

1) PEDs by definition enhance performance, or else people wouldn't take them.
2) Even if we believe his opponents were likewise taking them, we don't know, except a few cases (Belfort, Sonnen, Bonnar...).
3) We do not know what Jones' record would look like without having taken those PEDs.

Take the first Gustaffson fight. That was extremely close. Had he lost that fight without PEDs, his entire legacy changes. The first DC fight was competitive as well.

There's no proof he took PEDs there outside of the fight it was ruled as a no contest vs DC. He was caught other times, but the fights were cancelled or moved on. Objectively, you can't tell.

 

[Mind Mine]

Anyone who doubts that Jones was juicing for the better half of his career, and particularly during his early title run and series of defenses, before USADA came along, is naive.

The question is not whether he was cheating, but what one thinks that entails for his legacy.

I personally think it disqualifies him from GOATness, because.

1) PEDs by definition enhance performance, or else people wouldn't take them.
2) Even if we believe his opponents were likewise taking them, we don't know, except a few cases (Belfort, Sonnen, Bonnar...).
3) We do not know what Jones' record would look like without having taken those PEDs.

Take the first Gustaffson fight. That was extremely close. Had he lost that fight without PEDs, his entire legacy changes. The first DC fight was competitive as well.

That’s so awesome friend and the adorable thing is that there used to be so many of you and now there are just a few hanging on for dear life. You do realize you have partook in a form of entertainment built on the backs of steroid laden men correct? You do realize may fighters have came forward and said the vast majority? You do realize if you took steroids at a time everyone turned the blind eye stopping and competing would be the dumbest thing a human could do? You do understand your body wouldn’t go to baseline it would go beneath your naturally obtainable levels for a long time. I’m not justifying use. If you do and get caught you serve your sentence. Even the UFC knows that. So why so you feel it necessary to exclude the accomplishment of one man when the entire sport was built on it? There is ZERO rule in any rule book or historical precedent that you popped you do your time and someone’s entire legacy cannot be counted while you sit there with frito stained hands watching them fight. That sounds crazy

 

[krelianx]

There's no proof he took PEDs there outside of the fight it was ruled as a no contest vs DC. He was caught other times, but the fights were cancelled or moved on. Objectively, you can't tell.

Yes there is, the M3 metabolite residues in his bloodstream for Turinabol is direct proofof PED use. His T/E ratios have no explanation other than steroid use. The presence of Clomipheme and Letrozole in his blood...

You can choose to believe that he only took steroids when he popped, and once USADA came along, innocently. But nobody with a morsel of cognitive prowess believes that.

 

[krelianx]

That’s so awesome friend and the adorable thing is that there used to be so many of you and now there are just a few hanging on for dear life. You do realize you have partook in a form of entertainment built on the backs of steroid laden men correct? You do realize may fighters have came forward and said the vast majority? You do realize if you took steroids at a time everyone turned the blind eye stopping and competing would be the dumbest thing a human could do? You do understand your body wouldn’t go to baseline it would go beneath your naturally obtainable levels for a long time. I’m not justifying use. If you do and get caught you serve your sentence. Even the UFC knows that. So why so you feel it necessary to exclude the accomplishment of one man when the entire sport was built on it? There is ZERO rule in any rule book or historical precedent that you popped you do your time and someone’s entire legacy cannot be counted while you sit there with frito stained hands watching them fight. That sounds crazy

You need to get your head checked, before trying to sound intelligent with a litany of sarcastic rhetorical questions that fill in a wall of text.

Learn how to address others without behaving like a petulant child, and then maybe you can have a conversation with people.

 

[Luffy]

Yes there is, the M3 metabolite residues in his bloodstream for Turinabol is direct proofof PED use. His T/E ratios have no explanation other than steroid use. The presence of Clomipheme and Letrozole in his blood...

You can choose to believe that he only took steroids when he popped, and once USADA came along, innocently. But nobody with a morsel of cognitive prowess believes that.

But as the last guy said, his testosterone level was abnormally low, likely when not on the substances. I guess that he had used it to a point that his body lost the ability to produce testosterone normally, and he needed the substances to bring it up to normal levels, likely seen before he used to take them, or increasing it to somewhat above than he would naturally have... Like when someone abused ADHD meds, and the neurologic system loses its ability to produce dopamine to normal, before ever taking the meds, level, and the person needs the psycho stimulants to function like they would do normally before...

 

[krelianx]

But as the last guy said, his testosterone level was abnormally low, likely when not on the substances. I guess that he had used it to a point that his body lost the ability to produce testosterone normally, and he needed the substances to bring it up to normal levels, likely seen before he used to take them, or increasing it to somewhat above than he would naturally have... Like when someone abused ADHD meds, and the neurologic system loses its ability to produce dopamine to normal, before ever taking the meds, level, and the person needs the psycho stimulants to function like they would do normally before...

I don't think you understand how that works. Not all PEDs boost testosterone, indeed many can have either a dipping of testosterone after peak use, and there is no other plausible explanation other than castration for that could account for the levels of testosterone Jon had. None.

 

[Luffy]

It gives advantages, but with time, it's more like a mental edge, it's not felt like in the first times, the tolerance is built quickly... So it becomes more like a psychological factor.

But eh, the at least stances then that can be made a case are vs DC 1 (though not officially), the DC 2, and the Alex Gustaffson 2... Which if true, as in, enhancing his performance, it's a pity, a real pity... As it isn't his natural talent only, he relied on substances others likely did not in huge fights against his best rivals. Idk if ever since the Gus second fight, his decrease in pacing and performance, like vs Thiago and Dominick could be attributed to the lack of those substances.

But it's strange, @krelianx because Khabib's father was aware of those controversies and he said that Jon Jones can't be beaten, that his talent is from God... And DC said post their fight that JJ got himself in trouble when he didn't need the substances to perform at that level... Which is weird. Khabib also said that JJ's performances in his last two LHW fights were mostly due to lacking motivation, that goal he had.

Now in Heavyweight in those two fight he appeared way more dominant again... Less hesitant as well. Do you think it's a motivation factor and the substances like those fighters said weren't needed, or is JJ back on the juice again?

Either way, eh, that's a blur on his dominance....

 

[krelianx]

It gives advantages, but with time, it's more like a mental edge, it's not felt like in the first times, the tolerance is built quickly... So it becomes more like a psychological factor.

But eh, the at least stances then that can be made a case are vs DC 1 (though not officially), the DC 2, and the Alex Gustaffson 2... Which if true, as in, enhancing his performance, it's a pity, a real pity... As it isn't his natural talent only, he relied on substances others likely did not in huge fights against his best rivals. Idk if ever since the Gus second fight, his decrease in pacing and performance, like vs Thiago and Dominick could be attributed to the lack of those substances.

But it's strange, @krelianx because Khabib's father was aware of those controversies and he said that Jon Jones can't be beaten, that his talent is from God... And DC said post their fight that JJ got himself in trouble when he didn't need the substances to perform at that level... Which is weird. Khabib also said that JJ's performances in his last two LHW fights were mostly due to lacking motivation, that goal he had.

Now in Heavyweight in those two fight he appeared way more dominant again... Less hesitant as well. Do you think it's a motivation factor and the substances like those fighters said weren't needed, or is JJ back on the juice again?

Either way, eh, that's a blur on his dominance....

That is not true. We have seen ample cases of MMA fighters physical aiblity and performance changes considerably with and without PEDs, including TRT but not exclusively: Belfort, Bigfoot, Ellenberger, Shields, Melendez...

I also don't agree with those things that are said of Jones, because his performances after the last time he popped for PEDs were overwhelmingly his worst by a very wide margin.

OSP was at the time considered his least impressive performance, he looked far less active. The Smith performance was also considerably subpar, and then he had two controversial decisions with Santos and Reyes. One split decision, the other one in which the majority believes he lost.