End all GOAT Discussion

[DOMMA]

So you couldn't find any fighters in their absolute prime after 32 fights. Much less at HW. Got it

32 fights? 15 of his first 20 fights ended in round 1 and were against hacks. I fully concede Fedor has some great wins, you seem incapable of hearing an argument that negates your opinion that Fedor was past his prime when he was beaten 3x consecutively. He was not past his prime at 33 - 34 due to having 32 fights. Many of the 32 fights were against scrubs that lasted 1 round.

You need to lighten up brother, I see your posts were cleaned up by the moderator. No reason to get so defensive, chill a bit. Fedor is great.....feel better?

 

[BowserJr]

32 fights? 15 of his first 20 fights ended in round 1 and were against hacks. I fully concede Fedor has some great wins, you seem incapable of hearing an argument that negates your opinion that Fedor was past his prime when he was beaten 3x consecutively. He was not past his prime at 33 - 34 due to having 32 fights. Many of the 32 fights were against scrubs that lasted 1 round.

You need to lighten up brother, I see your posts were cleaned up by the moderator. No reason to get so defensive, chill a bit. Fedor is great.....feel better?

Hahaha you have to resort to make stuff up... and you still haven't found any fighter in their "absolute prime" after 32 fights

You resort to saying many fights ended round 1 without realizing that pride had 10 min 1st rounds. Also by using g that's argument none of Tom Aspinalls UFC fights would count and neither would most of Ngannous.

Just find a fighter with over 32 fights that was or is in their prime after 32 fights. Only then will you have an argument. Cuz right now you're just pretending that the number of pro fights doesn't matter. No one in their right mind would make that argument... but you are

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

To me GSP is clearly #1.
Fedor is a clear #2.

Jones is clearly a steroid cheat so can't be counted. No sports consider steroid cheaters great.

MMA fans are the only ones that try to defend a proven, multiple time cheat as the GOAT.

and you still haven't found any fighter in their "absolute prime" after 32 fights

Doesn't exist. Closest was maybe Khabib, but he was 3 fights off and provably fought cans his first 10-15 fights.

 

[Pitier of Fools]

Waaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, he called my hero not the GOAT!!!!!

Lol. Cry it out, cupcake.

 

[Vehap1]

The goat cant be anyone that has ever been koed or submitted before

But popping for freaking Turinabol is accepted?
So many retards

 

[nonoob]

If you don't care about fighters pissing hot it's Jones, if you do it's Fedor or GSP, pretty simple.

You Can't NOT Care about fighters pissing hot. Sorry,

IMHO Fedor (and unmentioned CroCop) had Many non-sanctioned pre-ufc battles with the best available competitors , many open weight, some 10 minute 1st rounds and some with no time limit at all.

GSP was a great and respected Mixed Martial ARTIST. Serra was proof any pro fighter can Never be counted out.

Mighty Mouse was also great, fully respected by all that matter, Mixed Martial ARTIST.

If you don't care about fighters pissing hot, oh well. Honor is a real man's trait.

SGOAT ?

Objective - unbiased, takes all factors into account.

Subjective - biased, for Any reason, can omit facts.

How bout this question....if someone was going to attack you and take your life....which fighter would you choose to defend your life?

Be hard to argue against Strickland, ya know he'd be packing a peacemaker.

 

[Subline]

Not sure why criteria A is 'undefeatability/skill', as if those two things are directly proportional.

Undefeatability: Khabib > GSP > Fedor
Ability: GSP > Jones > Aldo
Resume: GSP > Jones > Fedor

Being the best at MMA is also conducive to being the best fighter (with the exception of how well you can use illegal tactics), so not sure why those categories are separate.

 

[MigitAs]

PEDs are okay - Jones
PEDs are wrong - GSP
PRIDE - Fedor

This is maybe the best argument I’ve ever heard

 

[tequilaboy]

I think you missed out the pound for pound factor, a 205 Mighty Mouse would give Jones a ride for his money

 

[volcom5]

Hahaha you have to resort to make stuff up... and you still haven't found any fighter in their "absolute prime" after 32 fights

You resort to saying many fights ended round 1 without realizing that pride had 10 min 1st rounds. Also by using g that's argument none of Tom Aspinalls UFC fights would count and neither would most of Ngannous.

Just find a fighter with over 32 fights that was or is in their prime after 32 fights. Only then will you have an argument. Cuz right now you're just pretending that the number of pro fights doesn't matter. No one in their right mind would make that argument... but you are

Charles Oliveira captured gold on his 38 went undefeated from his 30 bout he fought nothing but the best all of his career, same cant be said for Fedor.
Sean Strickland captured Gold with the same amount of bouts at the age Fedor suddenly became out of his prime.
Michael Bisping captured gold 35+ bouts in and defended at 37yrs old
Dan Henderson went on a great run after losing to Anderson Silva and captured Gold in his 34 pro bout in Strikeforce.
Rampage Jackson won the UFC title on his 32nd bout.
Jiri won the UFC title on his 32nd pro bout.

 

[HHJ]

A.
1. Fedor

No reason to bother reading anything else. Close this shit up.

 

[Araquém]

The only way to settle who is the p4p GOAT is to define what is meant by p4p GOAT. There are generally 4 school of thought. I'll name the top 3 for each one

A. Absolute PEAK undefeatability/skill
B. Best accolades/record
C. Best fighter
D. Best competitor

A.
1. Fedor
2. Jones
3. Silva

B.
1. Jones
2. GSP
3. Silva

C.
1. Fedor
2. Silva
3. BJ Penn

D.
1. Jones
2. GSP
3. Silva

It really comes down to which one outweigh more. To me Fighter and Undefeatability are the 2 most important. Clearly to many Sherbros Record and competitor are more important.

A few things to note

• I don't count Flyweight cuz its too shallow and they're just too small.
• Fighter refers to having budo and fighting to see who is the best at fighting rather than who's the best at the sport of MMA
• Competitor refers to competing in MMA to see who is the best at the sport which also means gaming the rules, judging and structure
• In case you didn't know Silva was ranked #1 at WW and of course MW and top 3 at LHW. That's why I put him in the record/accolades section over undefeated khabib. Sorry Khabib fans top 3 in 3 weightclasses and #1 in 2 is more impressive than undefeated with only a handful of big wins
• Losses at the end of a career doesnt mean much. If it did Muhammad Ali would not be consensus boxing GOAT over guys like Lennox Lewis or Riddick Bowe

My overall pick is Fedor because again I weigh fighter much higher than competitor and losses at the end when they shouldn't be fighting dont weigh much

Muhammad Ali is not consensus boxing goat lol! You cleary dumb and don't know nothing about fighting. What you said about not counting flyweights because of their size already shows that your knowledge about martial arts is the same as mine about the peruvian culinary lol!

 

[SuperAlly]

The only way to settle who is the p4p GOAT is to define what is meant by p4p GOAT. There are generally 4 school of thought. I'll name the top 3 for each one

A. Absolute PEAK undefeatability/skill
B. Best accolades/record
C. Best fighter
D. Best competitor

A.
1. Fedor
2. Jones
3. Silva

B.
1. Jones
2. GSP
3. Silva

C.
1. Fedor
2. Silva
3. BJ Penn

D.
1. Jones
2. GSP
3. Silva

It really comes down to which one outweigh more. To me Fighter and Undefeatability are the 2 most important. Clearly to many Sherbros Record and competitor are more important.

A few things to note

• I don't count Flyweight cuz its too shallow and they're just too small.
• Fighter refers to having budo and fighting to see who is the best at fighting rather than who's the best at the sport of MMA
• Competitor refers to competing in MMA to see who is the best at the sport which also means gaming the rules, judging and structure
• In case you didn't know Silva was ranked #1 at WW and of course MW and top 3 at LHW. That's why I put him in the record/accolades section over undefeated khabib. Sorry Khabib fans top 3 in 3 weightclasses and #1 in 2 is more impressive than undefeated with only a handful of big wins
• Losses at the end of a career doesnt mean much. If it did Muhammad Ali would not be consensus boxing GOAT over guys like Lennox Lewis or Riddick Bowe

My overall pick is Fedor because again I weigh fighter much higher than competitor and losses at the end when they shouldn't be fighting dont weigh much

Your C is laughable

Penn above Jones

Be serious for a moment

 

[SuperAlly]

It’s Fedor and Jones. Prime vs prime I have no fucking clue, but those are the dudes.

Prime Jones probably beats Fedor tbh

Both guys are on the smaller side for HW and Jones at his very best was a straight savage

 

[Prazeres]

Being the best at MMA is also conducive to being the best fighter (with the exception of how well you can use illegal tactics), so not sure why those categories are separate.

There are many nuance you can introduce, like does being able to give out the impression you aren't being hurt like Benson Henderson make him a better fighter because it helped him get a few razor close decisions?

Does being a better finisher make you a better fighter?

 

[The Accuser]

"Absolute PEAK undefeatability/skill"

How does GSP who didn't lose a single round for years not make the list but Silva who was losing rounds regularly and came close to being defeated several times, even when he pulled out the ko, made it?

"Best fighter"
Lol at BJ Penn being on the list but GSP who beat him twice not being on there.

 

[Mike]

Retarded post.

I'll repost this again everytime this moronic argument comes up:

Cain and JDS were basically done as top guys right after they turned 30 lol.
Brock ran away from the sport in his early 30s with barely any fights.

All 3 with FAR less fight mileage than CC.

UFC HW Champs:
Rizzo: Never had a top win after 2005/06. Done by age 33.
Ricco: Done fighting at top level in 2003. Hung on for a few years losing to anyone relevant. Totally done by age ~33.
Mir: Last time he was at all relevant and had top wins was in 2012. 33 years of age.
Randleman: Last top win at age 32.
Arlovski: Left the UFC and got brutally "exposed". Done as a top guy by 2011 at age ~31.
Sylvia: Done as a top guy after 2008, at age 32.
Bork: Last win at age 33.
JDS: Basically done as a top guy by age 31, in 2015. Clearly washed by 2017, at age 33. Hobbled on vs mostly irrelevant guys after.
Cain: Done after 2013, at age 31. Hardly fought after period.

Wow, look @ all these UFC champs who somehow either washed out, started "sucking", or clearly were past it in their early 30s!
You could say the same of quite a few PRIDE HW fighters as well, to be fair.

HW MMA has failed to attract enough new, young talent since the 2000s, and this became very evident post 2010 as the average age of the division started creeping up. Hint, that is not a sign it got better.

Also- Fedor lost to top guys who were all on PEDs.
Apparently its better to get your ass beat in the middle of your career by Matt Serra or Takase than to top fighters at the end lmao.

It's so dumb it's basically not worth responding to those guys. Across all of sports it's pretty widely accepted your mid 30s aren't your athletic prime. The ONLY argument for it is a bunch of guys hanging around and fighting too long in a dead division full of old guys.

As you pointed out here most fighters don't have primes that last ten plus years, and nobody does undefeated for a decade at hw. All the guys they've said are better than Fedor because of longevity had shorter primes with shorter win streaks and less ranked wins, and they were completely shot sooner in most cases.

 

[mraa1]

Various reasons. I stated 2. Here's a few more.

They're so small they're movements are literally physically impossible for regular sized humans.

If we include them then pretty much all 125lbers p4p best over all weight classes

Also he was ok at 135, just one 10 lb class higher.

Makes no sense to ha e him in p4p

This is why I hate the p4p discussion. If MM blew up to 6'5 and 250 lbs he ain't moving the same and his style would be radically different. It's always been ridiculous to compare fighters like that without weighted measurements and what would those measurements be? Pure speculation.

 

[orca]

men lie
women lie
delusional fans lie and live in their fantasy world

numbers dont lie

 

[BowserJr]

32 fights....let's look at a few of these fights that you seem to think put all this milage on Fedor:

fight / record
1 / 0-2
2 / 1-3
3 / 1-3
4 / 14 - 5
5 / 28 - 21
6 / 0-1
7 / 24 - 13
8 / 37 -12
9 / 24 - 25
10 / 9 - 14

First 10 fights, 4 opponents had a winning record, total ring time is ~ 30 minutes. People fail to realize that Fedor fought a ton of cans. Yes, he does have great wins, not doubt, but.....he padded his record with a ton of cans.

If you've been following mma for more than 10 min. You'd know that the fights arent what add the mileage. Its actually the training