embarassing sub

[SteveQ]

So last night I was rolling with a pretty good blue belt (I have about 3 months experience) and he got me in knee-on-belly, an uncomfortable position to begin with, and then just cranked on my lapel pulling straight up while driving his knee down into my chest/stomach. I couldnt push the knee off or slide my hips out and was just getting suffocated.

I just felt like a real tool tapping to what was basically just pressure but it hurt like crazy.

Is this actually a move? Have any of you used this / been a victim to this before?

Edit: I realize knee-on-belly is a valid positon I was just suprised to have it used as a submission in its own right

 

[Gattopardo]

When done properly Knee-on-belly is really effective in a sort of "i feel like I'm gonna die" way. I have both used and been victim to it.

 

[J Storm**]

it sucks, but not tap-worthy IMO. i'd stick an arm out to let him go for an armbar or give up my back if i was stuck there.

 

[Gattopardo]

I am not advocating tapping to it. Push the knee off and work your self out from under him; don't just lay there flat on your back, that's when it just plain hurts.

 

[Gattopardo]

Double.

 

[a'wes'ome]

i few times ive almost felt like tapping just when i have a guy that weighs 120lbs plus ontop of me just cause i can't breathe

 

[jasond]

A good knee on belly can be killer.

Tim Credeur's is absolute murder. When he'd transition out of it to sub me, I was actually thankful to have been choked or arm locked, because getting subbed was more pleasant than being underneath his knee on belly. :redface:

 

[mitch1990]

I had to tap from a headlock once in practice. It wasn't that embarrassing though since the guy who had me in the hold had about 60 pounds on me. I've seen it happen in the UFC before to. Chris Lytle vs. Tiki Ghosn

 

[Newcastle]

I agree it is one of the most painful positions to get caught in. As soon as I get stuck there, I immediately try to shrimp to my side, scoot the hips out and try and remove it. He cannot keep that position if you can get to your side.

 

[Deloitte]

This move is tap worthy, Pe De Pano taps people out with this.

 

[IChinaManI]

I've tapped people out with it. I think it's tap worthy if the guy outweights you and is literally squeezing the shit out of you. Otherwise just shrimp and bridge like a madman.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

So last night I was rolling with a pretty good blue belt (I have about 3 months experience) and he got me in knee-on-belly, an uncomfortable position to begin with, and then just cranked on my lapel pulling straight up while driving his knee down into my chest/stomach. I couldnt push the knee off or slide my hips out and was just getting suffocated.

I just felt like a real tool tapping to what was basically just pressure but it hurt like crazy.

Is this actually a move? Have any of you used this / been a victim to this before?

Edit: I realize knee-on-belly is a valid positon I was just suprised to have it used as a submission in its own right

It's usually not a submission in it's own right, because what that person did is usually used to make you move and create an opening. It's not a submission, but if done properly it's incredibly uncomfortable, and forces you to give up something.

 

[LordarshynBJJ]

You guys don't quite understand.

It says you're from cleveland. It's very possible that the guy you were rolling with was here in akron for the sperry seminar.

I say this because there are some slight modifications to the knee on stomach that he showed us. I really don't see many people doing it...and by that I mean barely anyone. Sperry came in there and showed it, and even my instructor thought it was pretty cool.

He pretty much keeps the leg so the knee is facing more towards the face, and is on the sternum. he uses his right hand to pin down the far arm, and his left hand to pull up on the lapel.

That is the most uncomfortable position ever. Most people will willingly give up the mount to get out of it...because if you don't, every time you exhale, you can't inhale another breath...It's really brutal..I could see someone tapping if they are held there and you don't take the mount.

 

[johil d'o]

I saw Pe de Pano tap black belt Todd Margolis with it in the Pan Ams 2003 - you can see it on the Pan Ams 2003 DVD.

 

[Trickster***]

I hate painful subs like this. I never tapped to this but I have tapped to a RNC that was on my lip and I felt like my god damn teeth were going to snap....it hurt more than any RNC.

 

[wmike9902**]

positions like that suck. I wont tap to it but ill just give up my back or mount so I can tap to something else

 

[masada555]

Training isn't competition. It's OK to tap out whenever you want, for whatever reason. Anyone who tells you different is a fool.

I've definitely tapped to a harsh knee-on before, especially when I was already tired and gasping for air. People will probably tell you it's not a "legit" sub, and in general I would agree that if you were rolling against someone of the same size and weight, and you're not completely exhausted, you should be able to tough it out most of the time.

But this isn't a black and white issue. For example, would anyone here argue that a 120 lb woman should be embarassed to tap to a knee-on of a 300 lb man? What if the woman's a black belt and the man's a blue?

 

[SFinclined]

Knee on belly can be as uncomfortable as a body triangle. Which both can cause a tap.

 

[nyne]

Don't feel embarrassed --just learn from it . It's a blue belt after all!!

 

[Gattopardo]

Training isn't competition. It's OK to tap out whenever you want, for whatever reason. Anyone who tells you different is a fool.

I've definitely tapped to a harsh knee-on before, especially when I was already tired and gasping for air. People will probably tell you it's not a "legit" sub, and in general I would agree that if you were rolling against someone of the same size and weight, and you're not completely exhausted, you should be able to tough it out most of the time.

But this isn't a black and white issue. For example, would anyone here argue that a 120 lb woman should be embarassed to tap to a knee-on of a 300 lb man? What if the woman's a black belt and the man's a blue?

I agree 100%; not tapping out of pride or excessive ego only leads to injury. I also think that if a 300 pound guy transitions into knee-on-belly with a 120 woman, regardless of skill level, that guy is kinda jerkish.