Social Elon taking control of Treasury, locks federal workers out of their computers.

[BFoe]

This is a funny narrative that began before Trump was even inaugurated. "Trump voters will regret their choice soon enough and I'll be here to laugh, hurr durr." Yet the opposite is happening.

I don’t think you’ll realize you’ve been fucked until Trump finishes and lights a cigarette.

I haven't come across or spoken to anyone who hasn't been beyond thrilled so far, tbh. Trump pulled independents, libertarians, bitcoiners, ex-never trumpers, and disillusioned democrats all into his coalition for differing reasons. So far, he has done everything in his power to deliver on the promises made -- he is pushing the limits of executive power here and possibly redefining the office itself as a result. It's the most hyper-aggressive presidency in modern American history. And/But it's only been two fucking weeks.

Hyper-aggressive is a mild way to put it.
I think we’ve let this go on about 13 days too long.

So congress cannot stop a spending item that was found to be, or considered to be, redundant or useless or wasteful, after the budget has been approved? Cause maybe the congress gets a list of expenditures to be cut and votes on it and it passes. Would that be a lawful way to stop a spending item?

Yeah, Congress can cancel it. They do that sometimes, it’s called rescission.
They can do it through their normal bill-passing process, or they can use a thing called Title X of the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974. Congress passed that act in response to Nixon refusing to spend money that Congress allocated (although I’d argue it shouldn’t even be necessary, as the Consitution is clear on who has this authority anyway, i.e. Congress).

EDIT: actually I suppose it’s necessary, as it sets up the process to cut spending free of the filibuster.

Here’s an explainer if you or anyone else is interested.

Rescissions, Rescissions: How Congress Can Use the Rescission Process Responsibly

Rescission authority is a hot topic, ever since Wall Street Journal investigative columnist Kim Strassel reminded Congress of a power it seemingly forgot it had. The rescissions process is a powerful tool that allows Congress to cut spending free from the threat of a filibuster. But while this...

www.congressionalinstitute.org

 

[Fox by the Sea]

You brushing that aside as if it's nothing doesn't lessen how unprecedented and dangerous it is. They've also accessed classified information in other agencies. You going to say that's no big deal as well?

All of that aside, Elon Musk deciding what payments the Treasury sends out or shutting down government agencies created by Congress is illegal, which again, should cause a reasonable person to raise the alarm.

Is doubt he's the one doing the actual shutting down, I don't know how that would work, he's probably making a list that Trump approves?

 

[Fox by the Sea]

I don’t think you’ll realize you’ve been fucked until Trump finishes and lights a cigarette.


Hyper-aggressive is a mild way to put it.
I think we’ve let this go on about 13 days too long.


Yeah, Congress can cancel it. They do that sometimes, it’s called rescission.
They can do it through their normal bill-passing process, or they can use a thing called Title X of the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974. Congress passed that act in response to Nixon refusing to spend money that Congress allocated (although I’d argue it shouldn’t even be necessary, as the Consitution is clear on who has this authority anyway, i.e. Congress).

EDIT: actually I suppose it’s necessary, as it sets up the process to cut spending free of the filibuster.

Here’s an explainer if you or anyone else is interested.

Rescissions, Rescissions: How Congress Can Use the Rescission Process Responsibly

Rescission authority is a hot topic, ever since Wall Street Journal investigative columnist Kim Strassel reminded Congress of a power it seemingly forgot it had. The rescissions process is a powerful tool that allows Congress to cut spending free from the threat of a filibuster. But while this...

www.congressionalinstitute.org

Right, yeah, thanks. That's what I mean when I say the pipeline is probably doge -Trump-congress. So the list will contain say 100 items, Trump will reduce it to 50 then congress will accept 10 of them. That's how I see it going.

 

[jk7707]

Is doubt he's the one doing the actual shutting down, I don't know how that would work, he's probably making a list that Trump approves?

Even though it is very clear he is, and has said as much publicly, it doesn't matter. Why? Because the President doesn't legally have the power to unilaterally shut down a congressionally created agency either. It's illegal.

 

[BFoe]

Right, yeah, thanks. That's what I mean when I say the pipeline is probably doge -Trump-congress. So the list will contain say 100 items, Trump will reduce it to 50 then congress will accept 10 of them. That's how I see it going.

It could, but doesn’t seem to be so far. That’s what Reagan did with the Grace Commission: they investigated, and wrote a report full of recommendations that they presented to Congress. But they also followed federal laws on how they should function. The American people are supposed to have, by law, full transparency on what these types of groups are doing, what happens in their meetings, what they find, what they recommend, etc. None of that is happening here. Also, one doesn’t need the literal keys to the Treasury to do this.

The power they’re seizing along with the lack of transparency is really troubling imo.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Even though it is very clear he is, and has said as much publicly, it doesn't matter. Why? Because the President doesn't legally have the power to unilaterally shut down a congressionally created agency either. It's illegal.

You mean usaid? He's probably going to do a finance review, not close it down. Usaid is a very strong component of America's foreign policy, but more than that, it's notoriously an institution belonging to the dems. The most likely plan is cutting funding for some programs, some of which are ideological horseshit, and kick out the dem influence and make it a republican institution.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

America already conquered by an autistic south African billionaire.

 

[jk7707]

You mean usaid? He's probably going to do a finance review, not close it down. Usaid is a very strong component of America's foreign policy, but more than that, it's notoriously an institution belonging to the dems. The most likely plan is cutting funding for some programs, some of which are ideological horseshit, and kick out the dem influence and make it a republican institution.

He literally said: "We're shutting it down". It's not hard to find the quotes. The offices are shut, the employees have no access, and they're removing all public facing logos and names. So your "finance review" excuse is complete bullshit.


As far as it "belonging to the Dems" whatever the fuck that means, again, it doesn't change the fact that what he's doing is illegal. There is a process for any sort of reform or dissolution of an agency and it requires an act of Congress. None of that has been happening so far.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

He literally said: "We're shutting it down". It's not hard to find the quotes. The offices are shut, the employees have no access, and they're removing all public facing logos and names. So your "finance review" excuse is complete bullshit.


As far as it "belonging to the Dems" whatever the fuck that means, again, it doesn't change the fact that what he's doing is illegal. There is a process for any sort of reform or dissolution of an agency and it requires an act of Congress. None of that has been happening so far.

hey maybe you're right. i wanna see where this is going. i don't believe they're closing it down, just repurposing it.

 

[BFoe]

hey maybe you're right. i wanna see where this is going. i don't believe they're closing it down, just repurposing it.

I think they’ll definitely re-purpose it. I foresee them slashing/eliminating funding for the less fortunate and using that money to fund their tax cuts for the wealthy. Wouldn’t surprise me to see it used to fund right wing, Christian nationalist type causes and groups as well.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Wouldn’t surprise me to see it used to fund right wing, Christian nationalist type causes and groups as well.

I mean they did fund Jewish groups, lgbt groups, all sorts. Why not also Christians?

 

[jk7707]

hey maybe you're right. i wanna see where this is going. i don't believe they're closing it down, just repurposing it.

If they want to reform USaid, they can do it through Congress. None of that process has been followed so far.

 

[Captain Tenneal]

Classic first world clueless response.

Oh things are just as bad in America as they are in insert random shithole.

You are unaware of it because you have never lived it

That wasn't actually my point


I'm sorry you live in a shit hole

 

[Deleted member 592570]

Source?

He literally just got carded yesterday for calling for violence lol

 

[Rod1]

That wasn't actually my point


I'm sorry you live in a shit hole

So what was your point then? because America is definitively navigating towards uncharted territory and government as it is has ceased to exist, there are no checks and balances to the executive anymore.

America just became a country like Qatar or the UAE just a third world shithole but with a lot of money.

 

[Rod1]

You mean usaid? He's probably going to do a finance review, not close it down. Usaid is a very strong component of America's foreign policy, but more than that, it's notoriously an institution belonging to the dems. The most likely plan is cutting funding for some programs, some of which are ideological horseshit, and kick out the dem influence and make it a republican institution.

That's the job of Congress, in an actual functioning country that has separation of powers

America just entered uncharted third world shithole territory, where Congress is just a pretend organ and the entirerity of power rests on the executive.

Saying its a "dem institution" is just populism 101, anything they don't like its going to be a dem or deep state institution and even if it was true there is an actual LAWFUL procedure to change things, so far they are violating so many laws and political norms that calling it anything beyond third world banana republicanism falls short of what is actually happening.

 

[Rod1]

I mean they did fund Jewish groups, lgbt groups, all sorts. Why not also Christians?

Tell that to Congress, they are the ones that approve the programs.

Can the President Abolish, Move, or Consolidate USAID?Because Congress established USAID as an independent establishment (defined in 5 U.S.C. 104) withinthe executive branch, the President does not have the authority to abolish it; congressional authorizationwould be required to abolish, move, or consolidate USAID.The Secretary of State established USAID as directed by Executive Order 10973, signed on November 3,1961. The agency was meant to implement components of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 (FAA, P.L.87-195), enacted on September 4, 1961.Section 1413 of the Foreign Affairs Reform and Restructuring Act of 1998, Division G of P.L. 105-277,established USAID as an “independent establishment” outside of the State Department (22 U.S.C. 6563).In that act, Congress provided the President with temporary authority to reorganize the agency (22 U.S.C.6601). President Clinton retained the status of USAID as an independent entity, and the authority toreorganize expired in 1999. Congress has not granted the President further authority to abolish, move, orconsolidate USAID sinc

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN12500

 

[Fox by the Sea]

That's the job of Congress, in an actual functioning country that has separation of powers

it will probably get there

America just entered uncharted third world shithole territory, where Congress is just a pretend organ and the entirerity of power rests on the executive.

true.

Saying its a "dem institution" is just populism 101, anything they don't like its going to be a dem or deep state institution and even if it was true there is an actual LAWFUL procedure to change things, so far they are violating so many laws and political norms that calling it anything beyond third world banana republicanism falls short of what is actually happening.

it really was a dem institution. there ain't no republican institution sending money for pride parades and lgbt outreach in eastern euro.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

So are some of my most brilliant staff. They do things that the rest of us fail at or take longer to do on a regular basis.

I had a guy help Westinghouse's Nuclear practice fix a data problem they had been screwed over about for over a year in 1/2 of a day. It kind of sucked, because I had a 3 month contract, but that's how it goes quite often with those on the spectrum. I have another guy that went in behind Oracle and Accenture (Teamed Up) for 2 years to do a huge conversion / migration for a major power company everyone on the east coast would know. After 3 years of failure (yes... they went way over) and $32M spent, my guy went in and knocked it out in about a year's time with one other staff member and me helping him. (All I did was PM the job as my normal PM was dealing with a dangerous pregnancy). We did it for less than $2M and blew their minds. Shitting on autistic people sucks. They can be challenging at times, but they produce amazing results.

And they'll work for peanuts as long as you let them watch People's Court on their lunch break.

 

[SurferH2O]

And they'll work for peanuts as long as you let them watch People's Court on their lunch break.

ROFL!

One of my staff has a very autistic son that is now in Middle School. Besides his amazing piano play, his dad has taught him to code C#, Java, HTML5.... this kid is a whiz and it's funny. I told his Dad, once we can legally let him work we will employ him. His dad cracked up and said, "As long as we can get a TV in here to play Little House on the Prairie" . I will invest in the entire box set of the show if it makes a star programmer happy.