Social Elon taking control of Treasury, locks federal workers out of their computers.

[BFoe]

That is a very valid question and there are many aspects to it. I get your comparison between the Grace Commission and DOGE as they are different but similar in purpose. Something tells me you probably can't appreciate not only the humor of the acronym, but the fact DOGE is just a reorganization of a quasi federal agency created by President Obama.

Cutting federal waste is a major problem that is very difficult to change since officially cutting funding requires an act of Congress, but whether it will work or not the difference in Trump's initiative is he is not seeking legislation to officially cut the funding or even firing federal employees The Trump administration's strategy looks to be very consciously designed to cut the spending by presenting legally crafted options that will lead to many federal employees voluntarily resignng from their positions due to a ridiculous refusal to obey executive order to return to work as well as the offered severance package.

I think if we cut out some of the apologetics from your post above, we can get down to what the differences really are.

Like you said, DOGE and Grace Commission do have the same purpose, but operate quite differently: the Grace Commission’s establishment and operations were done in a very legal way, whereas it’s not really clear that DOGE’s creation, or its current operation, was constitutional or legal. Trump is doing some interesting gymnastics to avoid his new “Department” from being, well, a department, which of course would have to be created by Congress and not by executive order. But also it seems to be operating in clandestine ways that violate the Federal Advisory Committee Act, which requires that most committee meetings are open to the public, requires that committees make reports, and transcripts available to the public, and requires agencies to terminate committees after two years (unless the committee's charter is renewed).

I also don’t think it’s accurate to call DOGE a “re-organization” of an Obama agency. The agency on question is the US Digital Service, which had a mission of improving the usability and reliability of the government’s digital services. They did things like launching a new app for veterans’ healthcare, strengthening cyber security at the DOD, stuff like that.
DOGE is an entirely different, uh, “animal,” so no— I don’t really find much humor in Trump re-interviewing those employees as part of an attempt to gut it, so he can use the shell of USDS for his Department-that-isn’t-really-a-department-but-rather-is-an-advisory-committee-except-it-doesn’t-follow-federal-law-for-advisory-committees. Not much to smile about there.

A final difference is that Grace issued a report to Congress with recommendations for them to follow, whereas DOGE is far less transparent as I mentioned, and the result is not recommendations for Congress, yet rather for EOs of questionable legality or efficacy to be issued by a chief executive. Look at the example you provided: a dumb and pointless EO for people to no longer work from home, in the hopes that some will just quit? That’s not a targeted initiative to increase efficiency or eliminate waste.

It can be done well or correctly. The Clinton Administration did it quite well:

Presidential Reform Commissions: Be Gore, Not Grace | The Foundation for American Innovation

The Foundation for American Innovation.

www.thefai.org

 

[Cartiac]

I think if we cut out some of the apologetics from your post above, we can get down to what the differences really are.

Like you said, DOGE and Grace Commission do have the same purpose, but operate quite differently: the Grace Commission’s establishment and operations were done in a very legal way, whereas it’s not really clear that DOGE’s creation, or its current operation, was constitutional or legal. Trump is doing some interesting gymnastics to avoid his new “Department” from being, well, a department, which of course would have to be created by Congress and not by executive order. But also it seems to be operating in clandestine ways that violate the Federal Advisory Committee Act, which requires that most committee meetings are open to the public, requires that committees make reports, and transcripts available to the public, and requires agencies to terminate committees after two years (unless the committee's charter is renewed).

I also don’t think it’s accurate to call DOGE a “re-organization” of an Obama agency. The agency on question is the US Digital Service, which had a mission of improving the usability and reliability of the government’s digital services. They did things like launching a new app for veterans’ healthcare, strengthening cyber security at the DOD, stuff like that.
DOGE is an entirely different, uh, “animal,” so no— I don’t really find much humor in Trump re-interviewing those employees as part of an attempt to gut it, so he can use the shell of USDS for his Department-that-isn’t-really-a-department-but-rather-is-an-advisory-committee-except-it-doesn’t-follow-federal-law-for-advisory-committees. Not much to smile about there.

A final difference is that Grace issued a report to Congress with recommendations for them to follow, whereas DOGE is far less transparent as I mentioned, and the result is not recommendations for Congress, yet rather for EOs of questionable legality or efficacy to be issued by a chief executive. Look at the example you provided: a dumb and pointless EO for people to no longer work from home, in the hopes that some will just quit? That’s not a targeted initiative to increase efficiency or eliminate waste.

It can be done well or correctly. The Clinton Administration did it quite well:

Presidential Reform Commissions: Be Gore, Not Grace | The Foundation for American Innovation

The Foundation for American Innovation.

www.thefai.org

So let's see if I got this straight Trump is doing some kind of shady gymnastics to avoid creating new department which of course would have to be created by Congress. You are definitely a Democrat. A smart guy like Trump realized he didn't need to do any of that stupid shit because President Obama already did the shady gymnastics creating a department that absolutely did not and was not created by Congress. What is even more convenient is Obama's organization was literally for the purpose of technology improvements of government services! You are right that is it not really a reorganization, it is the same damn thing with the same damn purpose to deliver software that improves government services. Not surprised you don't get the humor of the whole thing but it is hilarious. In fact I heard that is what Trump was telling Obama at President Carter's funeral and Obama lost it, cracking up when Trump told him what he was calling it.

You also probably have no idea what that department Obama created became famous for. As a friendly reminder they wasted a ton of money releasing to the public the absolutely most embarrassing failure of a website ever.

I definitely agree it is one of the most dumb and pointless things in history that a POTUS actually has to even thinking about creating an executive order to tell federal employees they actually need to come to work. It is utterly insane, but I still think even if they defy a direct executive order the POTUS still can't fire them which is why I believe they added the clause that they can submit their resignation and receive a package and if they don't show up to work or accept the package they will be officially resigning from their position with no benefit, but probably reserving their right to litigation.

 

[BFoe]

So let's see if I got this straight Trump is doing some kind of shady gymnastics to avoid creating new department which of course would have to be created by Congress. You are definitely a Democrat. A smart guy like Trump realized he didn't need to do any of that stupid shit because President Obama already did the shady gymnastics creating a department that absolutely did not and was not created by Congress. What is even more convenient is Obama's organization was literally for the purpose of technology improvements of government services! You are right that is it not really a reorganization, it is the same damn thing with the same damn purpose to deliver software that improves government services. Not surprised you don't get the humor of the whole thing but it is hilarious. In fact I heard that is what Trump was telling Obama at President Carter's funeral and Obama lost it, cracking up when Trump told him what he was calling it.

You also probably have no idea what that department Obama created became famous for. As a friendly reminder they wasted a ton of money releasing to the public the absolutely most embarrassing failure of a website ever.

I definitely agree it is one of the most dumb and pointless things in history that a POTUS actually has to even thinking about creating an executive order to tell federal employees they actually need to come to work. It is utterly insane, but I still think even if they defy a direct executive order the POTUS still can't fire them which is why I believe they added the clause that they can submit their resignation and receive a package and if they don't show up to work or accept the package they will be officially resigning from their position with no benefit, but probably reserving their right to litigation.

—Of course I’m a Democrat. I prefer simply being called a liberal, because it speaks more to my beliefs that the fact that I need a certain political affiliation to participate in things like primaries.

—Obama did not create a new department. The USDS was not a department. (He did try and ask Congess to grant him the authority to do that. I disagree with that, but worth noting he tried to do it the legal and constitutional way).

—The Healthcare.gov failure was why USDS was created. The creation of the USDS was a response to that, not the other way around.

—DOGE is a totally different thing with a totally different purpose than the USDS. Trump is “smart” to the degree that he’s very good at manipulating people to let him get away with illegal and unconstitutional things. And I don’t say that lightly, that’s not easy to do. He really has to count on the ignorance of his audience, and his ability to manipulate people into not caring when he breaks the law pr does some corrupt thing. He’s been very successful at it.

—People working from home *are* working. That said, it’s well within Trump’s authority to issue that EO—it’s just pointless and not needed, and doing that as you claimed in the name of government efficiency is pretty ridiculous. I don’t think he has the authority to unilaterally offer severance packages though. That’s another thing he’s trying to find a way to wriggle around.

 

[Misfit23]

Kind of wild but I didn't realize 1/3 of the federal workforce was made up of veterans. Nice to see the love for the vets in this administration.

 

[Confucamus]

Well, I guess it’s a good thing that I am not being selective on which hate speech I consider bad. It is all bad. It was bad before he bought it and it is bad now that he has bought it.

But you only care about hate speech after Musk buys it, is my point.

Twitter is down 20% for daily active users since musk bought it. Sort of shoots your theory that more people equals more hate speech in the foot.

No, it doesn't. A lot of people were just upset their echo chamber was gone.

Why is it my job to explain why he did it? I am pointing out that he very clearly did a Nazi salute (twice). Couldn’t tell you why. I could guess, I could theorize, but none of that takes away from what we saw with our own eyes.

And there are plenty of other pictures/videos of politicians making this gesture out of context. The Nazi comparisons are lame and out of touch. I don't like it when either side makes those accusations.

 

[lowlife]

imagine putting your faith in the ego maniac billionaire class.

 

[Renard]

The technocrats, represented by Howard Lutnick in this case, want control over the currency. They've pitched their horses to Trump because they think he can make it happen. Trump already stated that he wants seize control of US monetary policy and financial markets by controlling regulatory agencies, i.e. the independent Fed. It's not like the Fed are good guys, but them controlling the dollar, having information on all transactions and there being a way for the public to access their records due to congressional oversight is better than the technocrats being in charge in a fully opaque manner, being able to do whatever criminal shit they want and being able to cover it up since no one else would have the transaction records. We're also talking about setting up a financial control grid, probably through CBDCs (whichever sanitized name they end up giving it) as the current structure wouldn't allow that. The reason there's some transparency into the Fed is because congress has delegated the power to coining money to them. If you delegate the power to another group, e.g. Lutnick & co, you lose all transparency.

The Trump fans see the corruption in the country, at least to some degree, and are mistakenly assuming that Trump is merely dismantling it. He's not. To the extent that he's dismantling it, it's because the people behind him want to install a system that's even worse. That's why they're still naive. If they understood how the world really worked they'd realize no one that's not deeply corrupt can even come within arm's length of the presidency. There are no heroes on TV.

 

[44nutman]

like 99,9% of those working in public office aren't elected officials, so that's irrelevant.
he's providing a needed service.
the budget has been feeding government parasites for decades.
everyone should applaud this.

Some of the stuff he is doing is not legal but Conservatives quit being the law and order party right around the same time people started laughing at them when they said they are the family values party.
Sorry I don’t want some South African Soy Boy having access to my private info.

 

[Wilmer Digreux]

Guys
hes autistic

Don't talk about @Zazen like that. it's true. but it's not very nice.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Sorry I don’t want some South African Soy Boy having access to my private info.

He's got the american citizenship 23 years ago.
i thought your side was all about trusting the illegal immigrants.
this guy's legal. he's just as american as you.

 

[Wilmer Digreux]

lmao



trudeau

 

[Xanzito]

He's got the american citizenship 23 years ago.
i thought your side was all about trusting the illegal immigrants.
this guy's legal. he's just as american as you.

Funny how it works, isn't it?

 

[DoctorTaco]

But you only care about hate speech after Musk buys it, is my point.


No, it doesn't. A lot of people were just upset their echo chamber was gone.


And there are plenty of other pictures/videos of politicians making this gesture out of context. The Nazi comparisons are lame and out of touch. I don't like it when either side makes those accusations.

How can you claim I didn’t care about hate speech? Provide any posts of mine that would lead you to that conclusion.

And you’re claiming that membership dropped 20% and hate speech doubled after Elon bought it because, “A lot of people were just upset their echo chamber was gone“? Help me understand.

Can you provide videos of other political figures “accidentally” doing Nazi salutes?

 

[44nutman]

He's got the american citizenship 23 years ago.
i thought your side was all about trusting the illegal immigrants.
this guy's legal. he's just as american as you.

Have you seen the photos of his team that has no security clearance that have taken control of the US Government computer system. None of them look old enough to have a single hair on their balls.
Pro tip Leon does not care about you, so the constant White Knighting is kind of weird especially for a foreign dude.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Have you seen the photos of his team that has no security clearance that have taken control of the US Government computer system. None of them look old enough to have a single hair on their balls.

i thought this discussion was about musk being "some South African Soy Boy".
where did that argument go? don't tell me you had no idea he's an american citizen.
and i don't know of any job where you have to have a certain look to be credible.

Pro tip Leon does not care about you, so the constant White Knighting is kind of weird especially for a foreign dude.

i'm proudly one of the OG musk haters. years and years ago, way before he bought twitter. from when all the libs were sucking his cock for sending cars into space. all those turned against him only recently cause he's in a different team.
ask yourself why you're so rabid against him. cause it sure as heck isn't the access to some systems. if he was in your team and did what he's doing now, you'd applaud it. so don't give me the high horse parade. i'm not buying it.