Elite level mma is boring

[Intermission]

Fighters “mixing it up” which means going for a takedown when your opponent is not expecting it, is boring. It gives a break from the action to both men and it’s garbage watching two high level fighters cancel eachother out and waste 3 minutes of a round doing nothing with the commentators trying to justify it to the fans “this is so gruelling… for the people at home this is gruelling”

MMA as an idea is very interesting. You get a boxer and a Muay Thai guy and see which discipline is better. That’s how it started. Now what we’re watching is very far removed from that, it’s mixed martial artist gamers dragging fights out for 25 minutes doing everything they can to avoid taking and seemingly inflicting damage

I think MMA will not survive past its infancy. Boxing is supposed to be a restricted form of fighting, but boxing represents the “fight” the argument between two people even more. Boxing fights are won by attrition, mma matches are won by choices

I’ve watched this sport for 18 years, as soon as I heard it existed I was a fan, but long gone are the days of Chuck Liddell and Anderson Silva. Now all the legit guys are being forced to sit on the sidelines for years like Aspinall, you have women talking absolute rubbish in the booth, and you have cards stacked with nobodies in the Apex

The female commentator is fine. Any sport gets neutered the more people figure it out. Boxing at lower weight classes is incredibly tame and calculated.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Elite combat sports are usually boring because the participants know one mistake can cost them so they play on the safe side and don't take unnecessary risks.

 

[Marko Polo]

I am not. I have this infection on my face and had to get on anti biotics. They drained so much puss and blood from it, but i take auto immune suppressants for my disease and i can't take em while i have this infection so everything hurts.

Thank you for asking. How bout you?

I’m sorry to hear that you’re suffering man, it sounds like you may have Lupus? That’s a terrible affliction my old girlfriend has it. Weather the storm and try to rest up.

I’m ok!

 

[Lord_Impaler]

Fighters “mixing it up” which means going for a takedown when your opponent is not expecting it, is boring. It gives a break from the action to both men and it’s garbage watching two high level fighters cancel eachother out and waste 3 minutes of a round doing nothing with the commentators trying to justify it to the fans “this is so gruelling… for the people at home this is gruelling”

MMA as an idea is very interesting. You get a boxer and a Muay Thai guy and see which discipline is better. That’s how it started. Now what we’re watching is very far removed from that, it’s mixed martial artist gamers dragging fights out for 25 minutes doing everything they can to avoid taking and seemingly inflicting damage

I think MMA will not survive past its infancy. Boxing is supposed to be a restricted form of fighting, but boxing represents the “fight” the argument between two people even more. Boxing fights are won by attrition, mma matches are won by choices

I’ve watched this sport for 18 years, as soon as I heard it existed I was a fan, but long gone are the days of Chuck Liddell and Anderson Silva. Now all the legit guys are being forced to sit on the sidelines for years like Aspinall, you have women talking absolute rubbish in the booth, and you have cards stacked with nobodies in the Apex

I agree. The appeal of MMA originally was the “mixed” part of it. You had different types of fighters fighting each other, even as it evolved it kept that “mixed” component of it for many years. Now MMA is just its own martial art. Nothing “mixed” about it. Yes it has more components than boxing or freestyle wrestling but it’s now just a singular martial art. Everyone has more or less the same general skill set now, just not interesting for me any more.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

I think it also has to do with fighters coming up these days, have shit gyms. The gym with huge talent like ATT are gone because even they don’t just let anyone come and train, and paying for elite training is not cheap. I think it’s been taking the skill level down quite a bit. Imagine Brice Mitchell if he actually had world class training.

There is just too much shit training places that most fighters go to- to save money

Im not sure what you mean because there have always been guys who went to small gyms like Mitchell. Bryce Mitchell can afford to go to ATT.

 

[Sms_productions713]

Im not sure what you mean because there have always been guys who went to small gyms like Mitchell. Bryce Mitchell can afford to go to ATT.

If fighters weren’t at a big gym, they paid to have good training come to them. Nowadays, there is more shit gyms and only a couple of high level gyms. It’s a new era and not for the good.

Bryce now can, but he doesn’t pay good coaches to come out. He prefers the big fish in a small pond. That can only get you so far.

I guess what I’m saying is, I’ve seen the benefit of having high level coaches vs not. My coach when he had high level training, he was at his best. When he wouldn’t have a good striking coach around, his striking would look like shit.

Look at Mike Perry for example. When he was at Jackson’s and had good pad holders and high level guys to work with, he looked pretty good. Then when he had his girl holding his pads, you can clearly tell in his performances because he looked like shit

 

[Safton]

I just find it interesting because for years I’ve seen boxing as a more restricted form of fighting, but I don’t think that’s true. A fight isn’t about taking your opponent down and submitting them because you’re physically stronger or even getting a flash KO, it’s supposed to be a back and forth argument, a conversation where you convince the other guy you’re better, we don’t really see that in MMA. People don’t have to dig deep in mma - when the going gets tough a lot of fighters roll over and give up a sub. There are ways out in MMA that don’t exist in boxing. There is hugging in boxing, I’m not saying it’s perfect by any means.

You have an incredibly weird idea about what constitutes a "fight". If you and me swing at one another and you knocked me the fuck out, what do you call that? I'll give you a hint: not a "conversation". If I take you down and choke you to sleep, what the fuck is that? An involuntary nap? A cuddle session? Seriously, what the fuck is this narrative?

Also, that "woman talking rubbish" on commentary is arguably one of the best ones at the table. You can tell she's actually a student of the game, keeps notes, and that she studies the fighters and their respective histories. Not to mention she has the best understanding of the Unified Rules and the like. She's not perfect, but she has more than earned my respect with her knowledgeable commentary.

 

[Thy]

I’m sorry to hear that you’re suffering man, it sounds like you may have Lupus? That’s a terrible affliction my old girlfriend has it. Weather the storm and try to rest up.

I’m ok!

it's similar. sucks indeed. was workin a job i loved, making good money, riding atv's on weekends for fun, traveling, and now i'm a fat cripple lul.

 

[BowserJr]

Fighters “mixing it up” which means going for a takedown when your opponent is not expecting it, is boring. It gives a break from the action to both men and it’s garbage watching two high level fighters cancel eachother out and waste 3 minutes of a round doing nothing with the commentators trying to justify it to the fans “this is so gruelling… for the people at home this is gruelling”

MMA as an idea is very interesting. You get a boxer and a Muay Thai guy and see which discipline is better. That’s how it started. Now what we’re watching is very far removed from that, it’s mixed martial artist gamers dragging fights out for 25 minutes doing everything they can to avoid taking and seemingly inflicting damage

I think MMA will not survive past its infancy. Boxing is supposed to be a restricted form of fighting, but boxing represents the “fight” the argument between two people even more. Boxing fights are won by attrition, mma matches are won by choices

I’ve watched this sport for 18 years, as soon as I heard it existed I was a fan, but long gone are the days of Chuck Liddell and Anderson Silva. Now all the legit guys are being forced to sit on the sidelines for years like Aspinall, you have women talking absolute rubbish in the booth, and you have cards stacked with nobodies in the Apex

I agree mostly except the boxing part. Just look at the most famous boxer of our time. Floyd Mayweather. And he's not the only one. He does the exact same thing as the boring mma fighters you describe. Avoid the fight. Win on "points"

A lot of the boring stuff youbdescribe though would be solved by having fights in a ring.

The cage creates stalls and stalemate. The ring isn't solid, fighters are forced to go back to the center and it's easier to cut off the ring and force the runner to fight.

 

[Marko Polo]

it's similar. sucks indeed. was workin a job i loved, making good money, riding atv's on weekends for fun, traveling, and now i'm a fat cripple lul.

Well at least you can frequent Sherdog for your fill of intelligent and unbiased fight discussion! Youve had a rough time man. Some guy with ALS got a neuralink installed recently, that’s something I thought was years away. Medical science is advancing at a very quick rate now and something will come along that sooner than later

 

[outbreak92]

Elite MMA is top 3 of every division at best.

Who is elite at

125? Nobody
135? Merab, Umar, maybe Sean or Yan
145? Volk, Max
155? Mak, Arman, Ilia is questionable
170? Shavkat alone
185? Borz alone
205? Ank alone, maybe Poatan
265? Tom alone

Yeah I get the feeling gsp 50 45's even today's 170s

 

[AstralPanda]

High level MMA is like an exciting chess match

Perhaps it isn't a BMF fight, 2 guys just going to war.

But if you can follow what's going on, it's very entertaining and educational.

The bar for entry is just a lot higher

There's a place for both.

 

[Poatan Power]

Boxing isn't won by decisions? News to me

 

[AstralPanda]

I agree mostly except the boxing part. Just look at the most famous boxer of our time. Floyd Mayweather. And he's not the only one. He does the exact same thing as the boring mma fighters you describe. Avoid the fight. Win on "points"

A lot of the boring stuff youbdescribe though would be solved by having fights in a ring.

The cage creates stalls and stalemate. The ring isn't solid, fighters are forced to go back to the center and it's easier to cut off the ring and force the runner to fight.

I always enjoyed Floyd's fights. There's a beauty to his mastery of the game, his defense. I think the bar for entry is a lot higher when it comes to understanding what Floyd does and why.

As opposed to 2 guys just going to battle.

A lot more people aren't going to understand and appreciate that style, the chess match of it all, which is understandable. There's no one truth, everyone has different things they enjoy as fans.

The octagon definitely allows for the more extreme side of that style though, way more room to move and cheese these fights to victory.

A smaller octagon could be a good move

 

[Doctor Grudge]

If fighters weren’t at a big gym, they paid to have good training come to them. Nowadays, there is more shit gyms and only a couple of high level gyms. It’s a new era and not for the good.

Bryce now can, but he doesn’t pay good coaches to come out. He prefers the big fish in a small pond. That can only get you so far.

I guess what I’m saying is, I’ve seen the benefit of having high level coaches vs not. My coach when he had high level training, he was at his best. When he wouldn’t have a good striking coach around, his striking would look like shit.

Look at Mike Perry for example. When he was at Jackson’s and had good pad holders and high level guys to work with, he looked pretty good. Then when he had his girl holding his pads, you can clearly tell in his performances because he looked like shit

You're saying that back in the day fighters always had top tier training? There are more quality trainers now than there were in the past. It's easier to find a gym in your region that is good than in the past. There were fighters who had to learn martial arts from VHS tapes in the past due to how hard it was to find quality training.

If Mike Perry was at Jacksons before he had money, then that would mean that Jacksons isn't as hard to train at as you're suggesting. Mike Perry trains the way he does out of his own preference, just like Mitchell does.

 

[AstralPanda]

and yet the UFC markets its fighters as "the baddest on the planet"

You can have a fluffed sport with a ton of rules; or you can have "the baddest on the planet". pick one

Even in a fight to the death, superior technique and fight IQ will often still reign supreme.

The baddest on the planet doesn't just mean someone who goes to war and throws caution to the wind.

Often times, these are the least intelligent, with the least fight IQ, even if they might have a warrior spirit.

 

[BowserJr]

I always enjoyed Floyd's fights. There's a beauty to his mastery of the game, his defense. I think the bar for entry is a lot higher when it comes to understanding what Floyd does and why.

As opposed to 2 guys just going to battle.

A lot more people aren't going to understand and appreciate that style, the chess match of it all, which is understandable. There's no one truth, everyone has different things they enjoy as fans.

The octagon definitely allows for the more extreme side of that style though, way more room to move and cheese these fights to victory.

A smaller octagon could be a good move

Oh i fully understand what Floyd does and why. It's just not enjoyable or interesting to me because it's not really fighting. It's competing and nothing more. I'm interested in fighting.

The smaller octagon has been done and there was more action. Look up the WEC size cage... I think the Apex one is similar in size

 

[Sms_productions713]

You're saying that back in the day fighters always had top tier training? There are more quality trainers now than there were in the past. It's easier to find a gym in your region that is good than in the past. There were fighters who had to learn martial arts from VHS tapes in the past due to how hard it was to find quality training.

If Mike Perry was at Jacksons before he had money, then that would mean that Jacksons isn't as hard to train at as you're suggesting. Mike Perry trains the way he does out of his own preference, just like Mitchell does.

I should have said at the peak. This whole concept of MMA as a discipline, really lowered the level in gyms.

If you remember at the peak, it was a shitload of crap gyms, and your top ones, that if you wanted to be at that level, you would go to.

The real secret behind it though was all the talent you had to train with. That’s why I mention Perry because he actually had decent coaches plus all the high level talent to roll and spar with on a daily basis. He was just one of many examples. We don’t have that anymore except your att and extreme coutures of the world.

 

[Hog-train]

I know this sounds good in your head, but picking up your leg and standing on one foot is not the preferred method of stopping takedowns. There's no evidence to suggest this is some dangerous finishing move. In fact we've seen more finishes come from fighters stepping goofy than we have knee strikes stopping takedowns.

There's plenty of evidence. All of Pride.

But more importantly, wrestlers will be the ones to truly benifit. No more free wall climbing to get back up. No more turtling because you can't fight off your back.

Both wrestlers and anti-wrestlers will benefit.

I don't support turtling up as a defense.

So congrats, in your effort to make MMA exciting you've offered more tools for wrestlers and turned full guard into a joke

You can't do knees against someone in full guard. That makes no sense.

 

[Ayreon]

I understand the pov of TS

Some fighters are smart enough to use the rules at their advantage.

Even if the fight comes out as an absolute stinker they achived their target.