Do you suffer from short term memory loss? You started this thread by asking whether the idea for this attack came from Quran or Hadith. I responded in the negative to which you said "we know that these terrorists get their ideas and motivation from the Quran and Hadith". You then started fumbling around with ideas that you didn't understand like "dar ul harb", and I asked you to prove that scripture is behind these attacks, as you claimed.
If you are pretending to be this dumb you are doing a really good job.
I said that terrorists claim that they commit their atrocities in the name of Islam and that they are motivated by the Quran and Hadith. This is different from saying that the Quran and Hadith actually justifies their acts or that their interpretation is the correct one. Maybe they are wrong and the Quran and Hadith do not justify such acts. Do you get the difference? Loosen up your turban you need some blood in that little brain.
My claim is trivial and true.
I addressed your points but will do so again on the basis that you address mine. You have an uncanny ability to not see bits where you are being proven wrong.
With regards to this, the Pagans at that time had numerous unethical practices that the Prophet was against. Those social norms included the killing of girls, a version of usury where the rich were taking from the poor, the abuse and torture of lower classes, especially slaves, and prostitution. The disgusting practices of the time were criticised as were the ruling classes, and the people were called to a new system and a new way of life where those practices were banned, Islam. The pagans of the time also believed in one God but thought the various idols were a way of connecting to that entity. They were told that God doesn't need statues for you to connect with him. They were also told about Heaven and Hell and told that they still had a choice about which path they took.
All these claims about the unethical practices of the Quraysh come from Muslim sources. It is very likely that they are fabricated lies to justify what Mohammed did. Do you have any non-Muslim sources corroborating these claims? You like to ask for evidence yet you never provide it for your claims.
INow, you claim that during this period the Prophet threatened the Quraysh - please provide evidence where there were threats of violence and war?
Ibn Humayd- Salamah- Muhammad b. Ishaq- Yazid b. Ziyad- Muhammad b. Ka‘b al-Qurazi: They gathered against him, and among them was Abu Jahl b. Hisham, who said, while they were waiting at his door, "Muhammad claims that if you follow him in his religion, you shall be the kings of the Arabs and the non-Arabs, that after your death you shall be brought back to life and your lot shall then be gardens like the gardens of Jordan. He also claims that if you do not do this,
you shall meet with slaughter from him, and that after death you shall be brought back to life, and your lot shall then be a fire, in which you shall burn."… (Al-Tabari, pp. 142-143)
https://books.google.com.gi/books?i...m, and that after death you al tabari&f=false
Happy now?
You have previously stated that the Quraysh should have killed the Prophet for his speech - and now you claim that people deserve to be beaten/tortured for their speech. Do you believe in murder for the wrong speech? Please answer the last 2 questions.
I say this in retrospect, knowing that he threatened to slaughter them and actually doing it. He is free to speak all he wants but that doesn't mean that there will be no consequences. He threatened to slaughter them and yet they didn't kill him, these so called barbaric and unethical people did not kill him.
Here we have Mohammed threatening to kill them because he heard them talk about him. Evidence of his narcissistic and evil nature:
"I could see from the Messenger of God’s face that he had heard them, but he went on. When he passed the second time they made similar remarks, and I could see from his face that he had heard them, but again he went on. Then he passed them the third time, and they made similar remarks; but this time he stopped and said, ‘Hear, men of Quraysh.
By Him in whose hand Muhammad’s soul rests, I have brought you slaughter.’ They were gripped by what he said, and it was as though every man of them had a bird perched on his head; even those of them who had been urging the severest measures against him previously spoke in conciliatory ways to him, using the politest expressions they could think of, and said, ‘Depart in true guidance, Abu al-Qasim; by God you were never ignorant.’"
https://books.google.com.gi/books?i... rests, I have brought you slaughter.&f=false
There were many reasons, some of which are mentioned above. As for the sources, if you believe they are incorrect, then prove it with a counter source. It is a logical fallacy simply to reject a source because you dont 'like' it whilst failing to bring a new one.
I didn't say that I didn't like it. There are standards of evidence for the historical method. One of them is multiple independent sources that corroborate one another. In this case we have Muslims claiming bad things about their enemies so it is more likely that anything bad is more likely false of exaggerated.
Also, you never even cited the source you claim I reject. At least I provide the book, chapter and page and above I posted links to the actual book. You have provided 0 evidence to back up you claims.
The irony of calling someone else deceitful when you have been caught lying numerous times over the last few pages lmao
Since this whole debate was about terrorism, it is telling that you have totally given up trying to prove your initial claim and gone off on numerous tangents in order to avoid the topic. I asked you a few questions above, please answer them. Ill list some of the areas where you have lied or told half-truths - you can respond to them if you want tor retain any credibility.
1) You thought all Jews and Christians were expelled from Arabia from that narration you quoted. This was proven to be untrue in a number of sources - the one I gave was Asqalani. Were you deliberately lying or just plain ignorant?
I should be the one asking you that. Where are the Jews and Christians of Arabia? They were flourishing and at the top of society being the merchants, agriculturalists, artisans and so on. What happened to them? Islam happened to them. The Muslims discovered that they could just pillage and loot rather than through industry and honest hard work. This is how Mohammed attracted so many thugs and became the warlord we all know him as.
2) You mention the war against Banu Mustaliq but clearly didn't know they were a Quraysh ally and at war with the Muslims. Were you trying to twist the sources or was that just plain ignorance again?
Don't be stupid. I merely posted a Hadith showing that Muslims attacked them by surprise and without a declaration of war. If you want to discuss this particular topic start a threat and I will prove that Mohammed was an opportunist and that he waited for the right time to attack and take all their property because as you know he took 20% of the booty and the wealthier and more successful he became the more thugs and bandits he attracted.
3) You claimed that "The only ones who were tortured and and killed were the slaves who rebelled against their masters because of Mohammed" - this was shown to be untrue from the stories of the Yasir, Summayah, and Ammar amongst others. Were you lying again or are you just plain ignorant?
OK, so you list some names and this constitutes a refutation? Where are the links or sources? Did you loosen up your turban?
Answer these questions as it is important for me to know who I am talking too. If you are a liar, then there's not much I can do to help you. If you are just plain ignorant, however, then I can help educate you by continuing to offer sources for you to check out. Like I did with the topic of Hadith science, I am always happy to help. Since you didn't respond to what I taught you on that topic, I assume you accepted that correction too.
You provided 0 sources. Not a single reference to a book, chapter or page and not a single link.
Yes, continue talking about honesty and ignorance...
