Eddie Alvarez on MMA vs Boxing

[Coconutwater]

Why do so many people make it into an insecurity thing? And why do you think MMA attracts neanderthals? Why do MMA fans constantly demean other MMA fans and fighters?

I usually like your posts, but I really don't get where a lot of you guys are coming from with this. This thread proves many people don't understand how much more effective MMA is in a self-defense context, so I don't know why it can't be pointed out without being accused of being insecure, and a neanderthal

I didn’t mean to offend you, I know some Sherbros aren’t the brightest people but even then, no rational person can think boxing is more effective in overall self defense than MMA, furthermore, the athletes from boxing, on average, don’t go around calling out people from other combat sports and challenging them to a fight or go around degrading their field of expertise. I feel MMA culture attracts guys with chips on their shoulders. Is this always true ? No. But in general, I feel they’re a touchy bunch.

 

[Ancient Warrior]

You said if an MMA fighter was in the street they'd just get a bottle broken over their head... implying it doesn't matter that they know MMA because they'll just get hit with a weapon

I was bring up situations of being selective with arguments and that was one particular scenario.

That was not a statement of the ineffectiveness of martial arts in general, you just drew that conclusion yourself.

 

[Dana's Moonface]

Fucking hell, this thread has went crazy!

I'm glad I got out when I did lol

 

[Lee_]

The majority of boxers respect MMA as a different combat sport.

The only loud mouth losers talking shit about the other discipline has been insecure goofy suburbanite MMA incels talking trash about boxing and boxers.

The only losers with chips on their shoulders are MMA guys after seeing boxers make 100 million a fights or seeing their MMA world champs get knock out by Youtubers in boxing.

There's only one side with envy and jealousy in this argument. I'll let you figure out who.

Still calling names, huh? When you grow up and can have an adult conversation about this, we can talk.

 

[Lee_]

Fucking hell, this thread has went crazy!

I'm glad I got out when I did lol

because it is all people defending their territory with anecdotes that aren't meaningful in the bigger picture, and juvenile personal attacks and name calling. Not much meaningful conversation. Welcome to Sherdog.

 

[JudoJabs]

The entire narrative that boxing isn't real fighting, or that MMA is closer to real fight simulation is pure cope from weirdos and nerds who have never engaged in a fight in their lives.

Boxers are superior fights, and have far higher potential to be superior MMA fighters, IF THEY WOULD HAVE CHOSEN THAT PATH. But they didn't, because a) MMA isn't that popular, b) MMA doesn't pay anywhere close to boxing, and c) MMA doesn't have anywhere near the prestige, world wide fame, and history as boxing.

So when you MMA dorks say something like, "Well, Mayweather would lose in a "real" fight vs MMA guys" you dorks sound completely out of touch with reality.

If MMA would have paid boxers 150 million a fight 20-30 years ago when Floyd was still a child, then perhaps Floyd Mayweather would have chosen MMA over boxing. And because we know for a FACT that Mayweather is genetically superior to literally every single MMA fighter in history, athletically, reflex, twitch, ring IQ, durability, chin, etc., we can make a factual statement that Floyd would have equally dominated MMA as he did boxing.

Why? Because Mayweather is a genetic freak athlete unlike anything we've seen in MMA. Who are you to say someone with Floyd's speed, fight IQ, physical talent, wouldn't have learned to low kick faster and harder than any MMA bum in MMA's history?

Similarly, if MMA would have paid 30 million a fight during the 80s, then perhaps a genetic monster like Mike Tyson would have taken up MMA? Mike Tyson would easily have the most explosive takedown in the history of wrestling and MMA because Mike Tyson is a genetically FAR superior to any bum athlete in wrestling OR MMA.

Again, if a genetic embarrassment like Tim Sylvia can dominate and become UFC HW champion with just his size alone, then surely genetic specimens like Joshua, Wilder, and Fury would dominate MMA FAR FAR FAR harder than Sylvia ever could, with their combination of size, strength, athleticism, speed, IQ.

MMA is a joke because the talent pool is a joke. Coping with the whole "hurr durr MMA is real fighting!" is pure low IQ cope.

If MMA ever paid the same as boxing, those very same talented boxers would migrate over to MMA and dominate and embarrass the sport.

If a complete boxing failure like Ngannou can transition over as a BOXING NOVICE, and dominate life long MMA practitioners like Stipe and Arlovski, then surely ANY mid to high lever HW boxers can do the exact same thing, in less than the time it took Ngannou to do it (less than 6 years, what a joke!).

Atomic bomb.

 

[JudoJabs]

Boxing is the ultimate form of combat.

Anything after that is pure cope for the fact that you couldn't cut it as a boxer.

It has the deepest talent pool by a large margin vs any other combat sport in the world. This is pure fact. This alone puts it at the very top as the apex combat sport.

MMA, by comparison, has the talent pool comparable to darts or pool.

The entire comparison of what is real fight vs what is not is pure cope from insecure MMA fanboys.

Why are you MMA guys faulting the boxers because they saw simply ZERO financial incentive to train an inferior form of combat (MMA) so that they can be paid less and have far less status? For what reason would a 3rd world, dirt poor child would take up MMA (a far more expensive sport for FAR smaller pay), when that same child can take up boxing, and potentially make millions and millions more? So that the child can satisfy MMA weirdo's obsessions with being "the ultimate warrior, bro!"?

The issue in this debate has never been about talent for you MMA guys. Your entire narrative is based on the fact that boxers CHOOSE not to participate in your DISCIPLINE. Your entire argument falls apart when addressing this.

Fact of that matter is, due to boxing's immensely large world wide talent pool, boxing pretty much siphons up all the most genetically gifted athletes and fighters, PERIOD. Due to the money involved, these genetically gifted fighters and athlete CHOOSE to learn the discipline of boxing.

Take these very same genetically gifted and superior athletes and fighters, have them train muaythai/wrestling/MMA, and they would absolutely CRUSH those sports as well. But there is no money involved in those inferior sports and their tiny talent pool, so all the best fighting talents in the world naturally migrate to boxing.

You MMA fanboys have absolutely ZERO basis for why a freak athlete like Manny Pacqiauo, Mayweather, Joshua, GGG, couldn't have easily taken up kickboxing/MMA and dominate harder than any MMA scrubs before them.

The issue/debate should have never been about something arbitrary like discipline (kickboxing vs boxing vs MMA) but about GENETIC POTENTIALS. The sport with the most money naturally has the largest talent pool, which naturally results in the creme de la creme of world wide fighting TALENT.

Couldn’t have said this better.

 

[Dana's Moonface]

because it is all people defending their territory with anecdotes that aren't meaningful in the bigger picture, and juvenile personal attacks and name calling. Not much meaningful conversation. Welcome to Sherdog.

Oh don't worry I know what it's like, I instigate it more than enough lol

 

[Shoden]

I see eddie didnt mention medieval rules. Very conveinient. Thats a real fight not the unarmed BS with a restricted rule set and a referee there to save you. He doesnt know a thing about real fighting until he has stood in there opposite a guy and dueled for real like a man. until hes been in there with a man in chain mail bearing down on him with a katana he cant talk about true fighting

That's complete fucking pussy shit, fighting with armor, like fucking coward pussies.


Fact is, humanity, for most of history didn't have any armor at all, just clothing......So going by actual human history, real history, a real fucking fight is no armor but weapons are allowed.....Humans would've used primitive weapons in a fight....so yeah that's a real fight, primitive weapons with no armor.

 

[JKS]

Ray Mercer was 48!!!!! when he koed a guy that was literally the UFC HW champion 2 years prior. Sylvia weighed 30-40 lbs more than usually, big deal, Mercer was also fat and out of shape. IF you compare the two its clear that Mercer was far more removed from his physical prime. DO you think any MMA fighter in history could go to boxing and at age 48 and beat the shit out of any boxer that was a champ and 11 months out?

Well, 30-40 lbs makes a big difference lol. Means he's completely out of shape after a year of inactivity. But again, Mercer vs Sylvia regardless who was more out of shape and past is just one fight. The whole point I am making is in response to whom said Mercer and Paul made mma's elite look like shit based of two fights. I made the point there are many examples of MMA fighters going into boxing and doing fine, I mentioned several examples. They're not high level boxers, but they are winning. In addition, there are far more examples of boxers coming to mma and flopping. Mercer/Sylvia is literally the only example of a boxer having success, and even that fight is very circumstantial and doesn't really say much. Couture/Toney is much better proof of how boxers would do in mma. Kimbo vs Mercer is a better example. You can even throw in Mercer vs Remy in K1, Ray took one kick that was blocked and gave up.

To answer your question, no, a mma fighter could not do that. And neither would a boxer, if were talking a serious fight. Syliva/Mercer is a bad example, as I said it's a very circumstantial situation that allowed Mercer to win. Tim was way out of shape, inactive, and it was a small promotion where neither fighter even prepared much. It was scheduled to be a boxing fight and changed to MMA like a week out. And even then they had a gentlemans agreement with no kicks.

 

[Lee_]

Well, 30-40 lbs makes a big difference lol. Means he's completely out of shape after a year of inactivity. But again, Mercer vs Sylvia regardless who was more out of shape and past is just one fight. The whole point I am making is in response to whom said Mercer and Paul made mma's elite look like shit based of two fights. I made the point there are many examples of MMA fighters going into boxing and doing fine, I mentioned several examples. They're not high level boxers, but they are winning. In addition, there are far more examples of boxers coming to mma and flopping. Mercer/Sylvia is literally the only example of a boxer having success, and even that fight is very circumstantial and doesn't really say much. Couture/Toney is much better proof of how boxers would do in mma. Kimbo vs Mercer is a better example. You can even throw in Mercer vs Remy in K1, Ray took one kick that was blocked and gave up.

To answer your question, no, a mma fighter could not do that. And neither would a boxer, if were talking a serious fight. Syliva/Mercer is a bad example, as I said it's a very circumstantial situation that allowed Mercer to win. Tim was way out of shape, inactive, and it was a small promotion where neither fighter even prepared much. It was scheduled to be a boxing fight and changed to MMA like a week out. And even then they had a gentlemans agreement with no kicks.

That fight is a hilarious joke to use as an example of a boxer in MMA. Besides the points you made, Timmy was never much of a grappler, and didn't go out and even try to grapple with him. He just stood there and got socked in the face looking like a lumbering fat man.

Any grappler, or any half way decent MMA fighter would have totally destroyed Mercer on the ground.

Bowan vs Jennum, Randy vs Toney, and basically any of the striker vs grappler matchup in early UFC before cross training started will show what happens in grappler vs boxer in MMA or a street fight.

A pure striker knows nothing about avoiding or getting takedowns, so the grappler controls the takedowns. Then once the striker is on the ground, he is helpless, and gets finished. A grappler can shoot for the takedown from further out and lower than a striker can punch, so the puncher's chance that the striker has usually fails. I am talking matches where there is no cross training again.

The reason the Gracies made the UFC as an infomercial for Gracie JJ is that from all of their challenge matches in Brazil with strikers, they knew what happened when pure striker faces grappler- the striker loses by getting taken down and smashed on the ground. The Brazilian Karate team also was swept by the BJJ team in matches in 1975.

Don't get me wrong, if a boxer trains grappling, all of what I am saying goes away, and they have every chance of winning. But as a pure stylist, it is wishful thinking as far as the idea of any striking style beating a grappler/real MMA fighter in a match/fight which involves grappling. They would only have a punchers chance.

 

[deucesarewild]

They are both sports, limited to the scope of their respective rules. Let someone finger poke and groin kick and all those MMA guys. You see my point. You can't say what's better across contexts of different relativity. Within context you can do a better job. Across, you can't. Otherwise you end up with stupid cat vs dog as better pet arguments. It's subjective.

 

[Lee_]

They are both sports, limited to the scope of their respective rules. Let someone finger poke and groin kick and all those MMA guys. You see my point. You can't say what's better across contexts of different relativity. Within context you can do a better job. Across, you can't. Otherwise you end up with stupid cat vs dog as better pet arguments. It's subjective.

Actually, they had groin strikes in early UFC, and head butts, and they didn't help striker win. We know what happens in MMA when pure striker fights grappler, as that happened a lot in early MMA (npt tp mention the James Toney debacle), nothing subjective about the striker helpless from their back getting pounded or submitted.

There is a reason boxers avoid MMA matches like the plague- they know better. They could set up a huge money fight for a Mayweather or Fury in MMA, but they would never do it- they stick to boxing challenges because that is what they can win. They aren't dumb.

As far as street fights there is some subjectivity, but induction can be added pretty strongly- the striker has to get the KO before they can get taken down, which usually wouldn't happen since they don't know how to defend a TD. And against a good grappler, they get tooled badly on the ground once taken down. They would sometimes catch the grappler with a KO, but not usually.

 

[Irabbs]

Actually, they had groin strikes in early UFC, and head butts, and they didn't help striker win. We know what happens in MMA when pure striker fights grappler, as that happened a lot in early MMA (npt tp mention the James Toney debacle), nothing subjective about the striker helpless from their back getting pounded or submitted.

There is a reason boxers avoid MMA matches like the plague- they know better. They could set up a huge money fight for a Mayweather or Fury in MMA, but they would never do it- they stick to boxing challenges because that is what they can win. They aren't dumb.

As far as street fights there is some subjectivity, but induction can be added pretty strongly- the striker has to get the KO before they can get taken down, which usually wouldn't happen since they don't know how to defend a TD. And against a good grappler, they get tooled badly on the ground once taken down. They would sometimes catch the grappler with a KO, but not usually.

Anyone using the example James toney as proof is being silly considering he was shot to pieces and barely trained in mma? As for your comment about boxers avoiding mma fighters in the octagon like the plague. Why would they make peanuts in the octagon instead of fighting in their own sport which they are trained in? Why would they go to ufc with barely any training in the other disciplines of fighting? I mean they would need years and years of training. Atleast when u transition from mma to boxing you have been exposed to boxing or striking with your hands whereas boxers would need learn for years and years Ji jitsu, wrestling etc. So really why would they do it? Because it would make brain dead mma fans feel better about their sport being better? As for the street fight comment what about weapons? Guns, knives? Also mma has rules too street fight has none. Loads holes in your comment sorry.

 

[Destino2018]

He ducked Oscar lmao. Out of his mind coked yo Oscar still bullied him in the ring.

 

[deucesarewild]

Actually, they had groin strikes in early UFC, and head butts, and they didn't help striker win. We know what happens in MMA when pure striker fights grappler, as that happened a lot in early MMA (npt tp mention the James Toney debacle), nothing subjective about the striker helpless from their back getting pounded or submitted.

There is a reason boxers avoid MMA matches like the plague- they know better. They could set up a huge money fight for a Mayweather or Fury in MMA, but they would never do it- they stick to boxing challenges because that is what they can win. They aren't dumb.

As far as street fights there is some subjectivity, but induction can be added pretty strongly- the striker has to get the KO before they can get taken down, which usually wouldn't happen since they don't know how to defend a TD. And against a good grappler, they get tooled badly on the ground once taken down. They would sometimes catch the grappler with a KO, but not usually.

And actually they don't have groin strikes now in the UFC which is my point.

 

[Joe]

Mma fighters sounding like boxers did back when the ufc exploded in the 2000s. Defensive af.

 

[MotorCityCobra]

The importance of ruleset in professional sports can be best highlighted by Pauli vs Lobov
There is no way if the fight was with boxing gloves that Pauli would ve lost
But a small changes like the removal of gloves completely overtook all the instincts
Same with Mcgregor vs Mayweather, forget about knocking out Floyd, Conor appeared unable to throw powerful punches at all

Muscle memory, strategy , best practices all count when the rule sets remain the same
Change the rule set and all of a sudden the best aren't the best anymore

Paulie is so shot and was so out of shape that in a 5 round boxing match Lobov could definitely have beaten him (assuming Paulie broke his hand as he did vs Artem) (p.s. Paulie still won that fight, but it was basically even)

Rules matter but in BKB or anything that is hands only, an elite level boxer with any modicum of punching power will obliterate someone who isn't.

McGregor could fight a Marcos Maidana and get knocked out in 40 seconds. Mayweather was perfect foe (similar to Paulie) due to non existent power.

Besides that omission I totally agree with your concept. Same reason Jake Paul stands a good chance of beating nearly any MMA fighter of similar size IN BOXING (where he has significant experience advantage)

 

[YourBoss]

Well, 30-40 lbs makes a big difference lol. Means he's completely out of shape after a year of inactivity. But again, Mercer vs Sylvia regardless who was more out of shape and past is just one fight. The whole point I am making is in response to whom said Mercer and Paul made mma's elite look like shit based of two fights. I made the point there are many examples of MMA fighters going into boxing and doing fine, I mentioned several examples. They're not high level boxers, but they are winning. In addition, there are far more examples of boxers coming to mma and flopping. Mercer/Sylvia is literally the only example of a boxer having success, and even that fight is very circumstantial and doesn't really say much. Couture/Toney is much better proof of how boxers would do in mma. Kimbo vs Mercer is a better example. You can even throw in Mercer vs Remy in K1, Ray took one kick that was blocked and gave up.

To answer your question, no, a mma fighter could not do that. And neither would a boxer, if were talking a serious fight. Syliva/Mercer is a bad example, as I said it's a very circumstantial situation that allowed Mercer to win. Tim was way out of shape, inactive, and it was a small promotion where neither fighter even prepared much. It was scheduled to be a boxing fight and changed to MMA like a week out. And even then they had a gentlemans agreement with no kicks.

So Sylvia vs Mercer was a bad example but Courture vs Toney is a good example? How so? Wasnt Toney old as fuck and fat? Even had CTE at this point already. There has never been a prime Boxer that came into mma. There is some elite mma fighters that came into boxing and lost. Conor the biggest one of them, Anderson Silva also is 0-1 in boxing by the way.

 

[JKS]

So Sylvia vs Mercer was a bad example but Courture vs Toney is a good example? How so? Wasnt Toney old as fuck and fat? Even had CTE at this point already. There has never been a prime Boxer that came into mma. There is some elite mma fighters that came into boxing and lost. Conor the biggest one of them, Anderson Silva also is 0-1 in boxing by the way.

Sylvia vs Mercer is not a good example for the reasons I mentioned. One, the circumstances that were surrounding the fight and that it was scheduled to be a boxing match and then was shifted to MMA like a week prior. As as result, they agreed on no kicks. Mercer was even talking how it's unfair to shift to mma so soon and Tim said he'll keep it standing. Two, Tim is a stand up fighter, you never see him do anymore than strike. He's not a fighter who ever instigates any sort of ground game. So that's not the best example of mma. And three, it was low level event. Both guys were in shit shape and there was literally no preparation for this.

Toney/Couture was done at the highest level of an organization and was full MMA. They had a lot of time to get ready for the fight and do it right. Furthermore, Couture being a wrestle boxer was a much better representation of mma than Sylvia. After all, the whole point of a mma vs boxer is to see how either guy would fare against the opposite style. MMA vs a boxer and visa versa.....not a boxer vs a mma striker. Like I said....how did Mercer vs Kimbo go? A better example cause it actually involved mma, clinching, grappling etc.

There never has been a prime boxer go into mma. But there has been many mma fighters that have gone into boxing and had success. More often than not. It's not a certainty how a prime boxer would do in mma, but high chances are they would lose if they just come with boxing. But with proper training, they would be successful. But that really defeats the argument because at that point they are mma fighters.

In the end we know how it likely goes. If you get the best vs best in their prime. MMA fighters wins mma and boxer wins in boxing.