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Eddie Alvarez on MMA vs Boxing

JKS said:
Sylvia vs Mercer is not a good example for the reasons I mentioned. One, the circumstances that were surrounding the fight and that it was scheduled to be a boxing match and then was shifted to MMA like a week prior. As as result, they agreed on no kicks. Mercer was even talking how it's unfair to shift to mma so soon and Tim said he'll keep it standing. Two, Tim is a stand up fighter, you never see him do anymore than strike. He's not a fighter who ever instigates any sort of ground game. So that's not the best example of mma. And three, it was low level event. Both guys were in shit shape and there was literally no preparation for this.

Toney/Couture was done at the highest level of an organization and was full MMA. They had a lot of time to get ready for the fight and do it right. Furthermore, Couture being a wrestle boxer was a much better representation of mma than Sylvia. After all, the whole point of a mma vs boxer is to see how either guy would fare against the opposite style. MMA vs a boxer and visa versa.....not a boxer vs a mma striker. Like I said....how did Mercer vs Kimbo go? A better example cause it actually involved mma, clinching, grappling etc.

There never has been a prime boxer go into mma. But there has been many mma fighters that have gone into boxing and had success. More often than not. It's not a certainty how a prime boxer would do in mma, but high chances are they would lose if they just come with boxing. But with proper training, they would be successful. But that really defeats the argument because at that point they are mma fighters.

In the end we know how it likely goes. If you get the best vs best in their prime. MMA fighters wins mma and boxer wins in boxing.
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First thing Tim did was kick, so bullshit on your claimed agreement.

Tim Sylvia was the UFC HW champion, so the same with your claim that he's a "bad example of MMA," too - he was the best they had at HW for a while. If he was a bad example, then him getting to be HW champ is an indictment of "real MMA," isn't it? You're cherry-picking your information sample.

Also love how you ignore the fact that Toney was beyond washed up, about a decade removed from his prime, when he fought Couture, when trying to claim one matchup was somehow more legit than the other.

But, as far as each kind of fighter winning in their discipline if matched in the their primes, yes, no argument about that.
 
Fact is a lot of great athlete's have gone into MMA instead of boxing so the talent pool for boxing has been diminished along with most of the excitement. I mean how hard up are boxing fans that they will spend good money on an amateur vs. an old champ who picks his own opponents? Boxing sucks. It's a show now, like the NBA.
 
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fzoid4454 said:
First thing Tim did was kick, so bullshit on your claimed agreement.

Tim Sylvia was the UFC HW champion, so the same with your claim that he's a "bad example of MMA," too - he was the best they had at HW for a while. If he was a bad example, then him getting to be HW champ is an indictment of "real MMA," isn't it? You're cherry-picking your information sample.

Also love how you ignore the fact that Toney was beyond washed up, about a decade removed from his prime, when he fought Couture, when trying to claim one matchup was somehow more legit than the other.

But, as far as each kind of fighter winning in their discipline if matched in the their primes, yes, no argument about that.
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ugh...it's written in the media that it was the agreement. Tim mentioned he new the agreement but it was instinct more than anything and a mistake. So F##K your claim of BS, what you think I just made it up?

Yah, it is a bad example of mma. Tim is probably the most one dimensional champion there was. The whole point of a boxer vs mma fighter match up is to see how a boxer can do vs a fighter that applies multiple disciplines not stands there like a dummy And, no Tim was not the best HW lol. Far from it. He may have been champ but that doesn't mean he was the best HW.

I mentioned a few time in the thread that Toney was well beyond his best years and out of shape. The reason I didn't mention it in the post you quoted was because I was beyond that point. I was only talking about the Couture fight from a style perspective and how it went.
 
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ejazahmednit said:
The importance of ruleset in professional sports can be best highlighted by Pauli vs Lobov
There is no way if the fight was with boxing gloves that Pauli would ve lost
But a small changes like the removal of gloves completely overtook all the instincts
Same with Mcgregor vs Mayweather, forget about knocking out Floyd, Conor appeared unable to throw powerful punches at all

Muscle memory, strategy , best practices all count when the rule sets remain the same
Change the rule set and all of a sudden the best aren't the best anymore
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Paul vs Lobov the fight in which both fighters barely landed? Great fight that. Also if u could pick a worse boxer to compete in bare Knuckles it's pauli the guy with hand issues and 20% ko ratio.
 
Reffson said:
Fact is a lot of great athlete's have gone into MMA instead of boxing so the talent pool for boxing has been diminished along with most of the excitement. I mean how hard up are boxing fans that they will spend good money on an amateur vs. an old champ who picks his own opponents? Boxing sucks. It's a show now, like the NBA.
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Boxing has declined but let's be honest mma will never reach the heights boxing had. Both are niche sports at the end of the day.
 
fzoid4454 said:
The idiotic contention that having rules somehow sets boxing apart from MMA doesn't need much more than that response to highlight the stupidity of that statement.
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Yes...cuz using kicks..knee..elbows ...throws...submissions and punches and GNP wouldnt make you more prepared for a real world fight than a sport that only punches standing....

Stupidity indeed..
 
Irabbs said:
Boxing has declined but let's be honest mma will never reach the heights boxing had. Both are niche sports at the end of the day.
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There was no MMA when boxing was great. Kind of the point. I saw the very first UFC live and instantly knew it would grow like wildfire, even in it's raw early years. Floyd was getting tired of all the publicity MMA was getting which is why he kept shooting off his mouth about how "inferior" they were. Never had the guts to back up his talk in the Octagon, but that's Floyd being Floyd. He ducked Manny for years also.
 
Reffson said:
There was no MMA when boxing was great. Kind of the point. I saw the very first UFC live and instantly knew it would grow like wildfire, even in it's raw early years. Floyd was getting tired of all the publicity MMA was getting which is why he kept shooting off his mouth about how "inferior" they were. Never had the guts to back up his talk in the Octagon, but that's Floyd being Floyd. He ducked Manny for years also.
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You actually think floyd would cared about mma if it wasn't for conor. Conor was the main thing about mma that floyd was interested in apart from that mma was irrelevant. Floyd knew the conor fight was 1. Easy money as he would defeat him easy 2. Get his record to 50 and 0 3. Bring fans from both sports which could smash the current ppv record 4. Conor is great at selling fights. Also why would floyd go into the octagon? Literally no need and pointless. There's a reason conor came running into boxing and not the other way round. That's cause floyd is the A side and has always been the A side for loads of boxing fights minus the de la hoya fight. I think you lack any understanding of how floyd works or even how boxing works.
 
JKS said:
ugh...it's written in the media that it was the agreement. Tim mentioned he new the agreement but it was instinct more than anything and a mistake. So F##K your claim of BS, what you think I just made it up?

Yah, it is a bad example of mma. Tim is probably the most one dimensional champion there was. The whole point of a boxer vs mma fighter match up is to see how a boxer can do vs a fighter that applies multiple disciplines not stands there like a dummy And, no Tim was not the best HW lol. Far from it. He may have been champ but that doesn't mean he was the best HW.

I mentioned a few time in the thread that Toney was well beyond his best years and out of shape. The reason I didn't mention it in the post you quoted was because I was beyond that point. I was only talking about the Couture fight from a style perspective and how it went.
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Citation please. Mercer was bitching about the change to MMA when they couldn't get sanctioned in boxing because all the states DID regulate boxing, but many did not regulate MMA. Sylvia SAID he'd box him, straight up, in response to Mercer going full conspiracy about it, but it wasn't in any of their written agreements. But, if you're right, you can probably find some reference to it that doesn't refer to it as a gentleman's agreement. And we see what that was worth. First thing - kick. Whether it was reflex or not is pure conjecture, since Sylvia was starched by the next strike thrown.

Sylvia may not have been the best HW (Fedor), but he ruled the roost as champion, twice, and had successful defenses in MMAs premiere promotional organization. You can't exactly claim that being at the top was some sort of lucky fluke on his part. Like I said, if he sucked, what does it say about him that he was one of the elite HWs for the UFC promotion, when he was in it?
 
Paolo Delutis said:
Yes...cuz using kicks..knee..elbows ...throws...submissions and punches and GNP wouldnt make you more prepared for a real world fight than a sport that only punches standing....

Stupidity indeed..
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And in a "real world fight" there would be eye pokes, nut kicks, strikes to the back of the head, finger cranks, kicking downed opponents, etc.

Again, you were claiming that rules made boxing not a real discipline. MMA has rules. That immutable fact hasn't changed. So, yes, stupidity, indeed.

And boxers wouldn't be required to wear giant pillows on their hands, either, in a street fight, so their ability to KO opponents who know they can only strike in a limited area, with said pillows attached would probably make a street fight seem like being set free in a candy store for them, so those restrictions that protect boxers more than they would be protected in a street fight are also an obstacle and limitation that they must overcome when attacking an opponent, that wouldn't exist in a street fight.
 
Paolo Delutis said:
Absolutely right...

Boxers need rules to be effective...

Change even one...and the whole thing comes apart...


Not the case for MMA guys ...take.an option away theres always another...

Good post
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This post made the entire thread worthwhile.
 
Pretty dumb take from a guy who grew up in boxing circles. Well let's be honest: it isn't an actual 'take' - just more nubreed twitter bullshit.
 
All human unarmed combat is silly and pointless.

It's been nearly about million years since it was relevant. Even our non-human ancestors knew that a good pointy stick or well thrown rock would trump fists and feet.
 
CPH said:
Pretty dumb take from a guy who grew up in boxing circles. Well let's be honest: it isn't an actual 'take' - just more nubreed twitter bullshit.
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I think he's just a broke and bitter bum, conor was right. Eddie would gladly be successful in boxing rather then mma and make more money as would all the other mma fighters. Most fighters fight for money these days rather then legacy. As mayweather said this is prize(money) fighting at the end of the day.
 
fzoid4454 said:
And in a "real world fight" there would be eye pokes, nut kicks, strikes to the back of the head, finger cranks, kicking downed opponents, etc.

Again, you were claiming that rules made boxing not a real discipline. MMA has rules. That immutable fact hasn't changed. So, yes, stupidity, indeed.

And boxers wouldn't be required to wear giant pillows on their hands, either, in a street fight, so their ability to KO opponents who know they can only strike in a limited area, with said pillows attached would probably make a street fight seem like being set free in a candy store for them, so those restrictions that protect boxers more than they would be protected in a street fight are also an obstacle and limitation that they must overcome when attacking an opponent, that wouldn't exist in a street fight.
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....


The less restrictive style wins in the street...


Period...



MMA is less restrictive by its very definition..

Mix martial arts....a mixture of styles is always less restrictive then one style alone...


Its not just boxing...a wrestler alone could easily get fucked up on a street altercation too...

MMA fighters have multiple outlets to win by...verus someone just relying on hands...

This is basic stuff man...come on...early MMA and NHB taught us this already
 
HHJ said:
Anti boxing talk is just as lame as anti mma talk.They are both great sports. People need to stop being so defensive about it.
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A lot of people here are missing the point and wasting time debating the wrong topic. The question here is not ‘who wins in da streets’ but ‘why is Eddie choosing to make this lame attack on boxing?’ (a martial art that he should have so much respect for, given his background)
 
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