Duane Ludwig.

[ThatBJJGuy]

What is the difference between bang muay Thai and everyone else's muay Thai...I mean what is it that seperated bang from master tong or winklejohn or rafeal cordeiro. I know he gets results but what are the tech philosophical difference between what he does and others do.

he's more the dutch style

watch his dvds they're really good

 

[NAKMUAY18]

You guys now Team Alpha Male is parting way with Duane right?
Back to mediocrity and Master Thong for them >_>

Back to mediocrity and Martin Kampmann for them.

 

[NAKMUAY18]

he's more the dutch style

watch his dvds they're really good

Bang Ludwig wasn't an MMA fighter that got good at MT or kickboxing, he was an MT fighter that converted over to MMA. He's got lots of legit fights under his belt and was a learning straight up MT for along time before he had to adapt it.

 

[MurphysLawyer]

Angles and all that aside, I've watched a fair amount of Duane's instructional material. He shows a lot of drills that aren't really things you'd do in a fight per se, but they make you comfortable with movement patterns and concepts that allow you to improvise well

 

[Fire of Youth]

Connor's thread on southpaw angles in Pac vs Bradley?

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f11/pac-vs-bradley-fun-angles-updated-w-part-2-a-2716363/

Good stuff

 

[Tony Manifold]

He teaches them how to fight. There's not one single tiny detail.

You are not wrong. He took a bunch of athletic, talented wrestlers who have a reputation for working incredibly hard and turned them into complete fighters.

Here are the things I took out of the fight.

TJ never retreated straight back. He always circled away. That is why Barao couldn't land that spinning back kick.

He threw a proper overhand right. That is very uncommon in MMA. Rather than winging his arm in a circle, he turned the knuckles over with the elbow raised and got around Barao's guard.

The angles have already been mentioned but they were great. He was pivoting around Barao and landing follow ups at will.

He defense was pretty tight. He fought with his hands down alot but normally got them up when he got in range. He also used his footwork, head movement and angles to protect himself.

That was a great performance.

 

[a guy]

You are not wrong. He took a bunch of athletic, talented wrestlers who have a reputation for working incredibly hard and turned them into complete fighters.

Here are the things I took out of the fight.

TJ never retreated straight back. He always circled away. That is why Barao couldn't land that spinning back kick.

He threw a proper overhand right. That is very uncommon in MMA. Rather than winging his arm in a circle, he turned the knuckles over with the elbow raised and got around Barao's guard.

The angles have already been mentioned but they were great. He was pivoting around Barao and landing follow ups at will.

He defense was pretty tight. He fought with his hands down alot but normally got them up when he got in range. He also used his footwork, head movement and angles to protect himself.

That was a great performance.

Funny thing about the hands up, the guy next to me spent 25 minutes yelling "this asshole better get his hands up before Barao knocks him the fuck out" while watching 25 minutes of Barao not even coming close to knocking him the fuck out.

 

[dat1978]

I was impressed with his movement, but not so much his footwork if that makes any sense? His lateral movement was nice and his use of space, but the way his feet were crossing and he was leaping in and out I can see him getting timed. He did a good job of not getting hit, but when he did get hit he was off balance and his feet weren't under him. I just have this feeling that somebody is going to be able to time that switch point or when he comes in with that rear lead and clean him out.
The stance switching then leading with the rear hand confused Barao as much as anything. It kind of reminds me of when Machida first burst on the scene and his unorthodox style needed figuring out before anybody could beat him.
I'm not trying to down play Tj though, the stance switching, rights to the body to left head kicks, lovely stuff. I also can't think of anybody in that weight class (other than maybe Faber ironically) that could run the game plan needed to take him out?

exactly how i felt. moved well and was effective, but technically did things that didn't impress and did leave him in worse positions than he should have been.

overall great performance though and one that i predicted amongst my group. my only regret is not waking up in time to place a bet on the fight (i work nights).

 

[Jukai]

You are not wrong. He took a bunch of athletic, talented wrestlers who have a reputation for working incredibly hard and turned them into complete fighters.

Here are the things I took out of the fight.

TJ never retreated straight back. He always circled away. That is why Barao couldn't land that spinning back kick.

He threw an overhand right correctly. That is very uncommon in MMA. Rather than winging his arm in a circle, he turned the knuckles over with the elbow raised and got around Barao's guard.

The angles have already been mentioned but they were great. He was pivoting around Barao and landing follow ups at will.

He defense was pretty tight. He fought with his hands down alot but normally got them up when he got in range. He also used his footwork, head movement and angles to protect himself.

That was a great performance.

Fixed.

The biggest thing I was impressed by from Dillashaw in the fight was his defense. He was ready to block and scoop every round kick, circle away from every spin, angle off from the punches and look composed the entire time. His effective offense was really pretty simple--mostly working his jab from southpaw then stepping outside with "soft" left hands, or throwing a rear left kick off that punch. But his defense was extremely sharp and Barao couldn't find openings to exploit.

Eesh, I don't know what you mean by 'effective' offense but I disagree with this. I was really impressed with Dillashaw's variety in his offense. When he was in Orthodox, he worked his jabs from three different distances (no step, step, and then that lunging quasi-superman punch) but he also threw a lot of lead hooks and uppercuts to Barao's body. His biggest shots (the huge one in the first and a few in the third) came off feigning those jabs and throwing them overhands (correctly). He also had that great feign-the-takedown-then-uppercut combo which nailed Barao several times, and once or twice he was successful just throwing the rear uppercut without setup at all. He also landed dozens of leg kicks throughout the fight, and even began landing a consistent switch kick in the later rounds. And that was all in Orthodox. When he switched to Southpaw, he actually didn't jab much at all-- most of it was straight lefts, followed up with hooks when Barao avoided it by going straight back--- plus Dillashaw worked his kicks to the body beautifully on Barao's open side. Midway through the third and onward he started throwing a lot of right hooks from Southpaw as well. Leg kicks too, both rear and lead.
And as you mentioned, that straight left to left high kick combo worked wonders.

It was also just hard to keep track of when he was in Orthodox or Southpaw because sometimes after a rear punch, he'd pull back and other times he'd step forward and seamlessly be in another stance. That's offense in itself, real unique offense too.

 

[a guy]

Fixed.



Eesh, I don't know what you mean by 'effective' offense but I disagree with this. I was really impressed with Dillashaw's variety in his offense. When he was in Orthodox, he worked his jabs from three different distances (no step, step, and then that lunging quasi-superman punch) but he also threw a lot of lead hooks and uppercuts to Barao's body. His biggest shots (the huge one in the first and a few in the third) came off feigning those jabs and throwing them overhands (correctly). He also had that great feign-the-takedown-then-uppercut combo which nailed Barao several times, and once or twice he was successful just throwing the rear uppercut without setup at all. He also landed dozens of leg kicks throughout the fight, and even began landing a consistent switch kick in the later rounds. And that was all in Orthodox. When he switched to Southpaw, he actually didn't jab much at all-- most of it was straight lefts, followed up with hooks when Barao avoided it by going straight back--- plus Dillashaw worked his kicks to the body beautifully on Barao's open side. Midway through the third and onward he started throwing a lot of right hooks from Southpaw as well. Leg kicks too, both rear and lead.
And as you mentioned, that straight left to left high kick combo worked wonders.

It was also just hard to keep track of when he was in Orthodox or Southpaw because sometimes after a rear punch, he'd pull back and other times he'd step forward and seamlessly be in another stance. That's offense in itself, real unique offense too.

Yea you're right, I didn't mean to downplay his offense that much. I just meant that as the fight went on the shots he was hurting Barao with were the ones I mentioned over and over, and that's what lead to the finish. His offense was definitely varied and effective, really fun to watch.

 

[NidNoi]

he's more the dutch style

watch his dvds they're really good

Dutch style isn't muay thai.

 

[sickc0d3r]

My teacher is a friend of Duane's and so has integrated some of the same style... one thing TJ used that we see a lot, and so I'm guessing Duane worked on it with him, is the switch-straight left and the switch-right hook or overhand to counter the jab. The hook is usually followed by a kick to the head. Duane followed a lot of his combos with a fast, almost straight up with less hip turn, kick to the head, and TJ was following suit in this fight.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

Fixed.

what's wrong with saying 'a proper overhand right'?

 

[aries]

Eesh, I don't know what you mean by 'effective' offense but I disagree with this. I was really impressed with Dillashaw's variety in his offense. When he was in Orthodox, he worked his jabs from three different distances (no step, step, and then that lunging quasi-superman punch) but he also threw a lot of lead hooks and uppercuts to Barao's body. His biggest shots (the huge one in the first and a few in the third) came off feigning those jabs and throwing them overhands (correctly). He also had that great feign-the-takedown-then-uppercut combo which nailed Barao several times, and once or twice he was successful just throwing the rear uppercut without setup at all. He also landed dozens of leg kicks throughout the fight, and even began landing a consistent switch kick in the later rounds. And that was all in Orthodox. When he switched to Southpaw, he actually didn't jab much at all-- most of it was straight lefts, followed up with hooks when Barao avoided it by going straight back--- plus Dillashaw worked his kicks to the body beautifully on Barao's open side. Midway through the third and onward he started throwing a lot of right hooks from Southpaw as well. Leg kicks too, both rear and lead.
And as you mentioned, that straight left to left high kick combo worked wonders.

It was also just hard to keep track of when he was in Orthodox or Southpaw because sometimes after a rear punch, he'd pull back and other times he'd step forward and seamlessly be in another stance. That's offense in itself, real unique offense too.

Have to agree, I think he has some of the most varied offence in MMA. He throws to the head and body, uses uppercuts, straights, jabs, overhands and hooks. He kicks high, low and mid. Add to that his feints, stance switching and angle changes plus the threat of shots.

Faber can easily beat TJ? Faber's habit of spamming that lean-left-throw-right combo is going to get him knocked out with the way TJ feigns the way he does.

And I also agree with this. I think Dillashaw is a better striker than Uriah. Faber seems to dart around without too much purpose. He's improved but TJ is a lot more efficient with his movement. And Faber often has terrible brain farts during fights. TJ seems to be pretty focused and discliplined in comparison.

 

[Ignoramus]

Duane and TJ and some Alpha Male guys came down to Saekson a few months ago. I wasn't there, but my friend trained with them. Said they did nothing but drills and worked from both stances as well.

He said it seemed like Duane really wanted his fighters to be comfortable in all positions.

Idk how I feel about that, switching stances as much TJ does. It works for him though.

 

[irc]

I used to train under Ludwig in Denver. The guy is relentless about drilling combos. Combos combos combos. He also explains WHY you are doing what you are doing, which I've found most striking coaches gloss over or do not touch on at all.

 

[$uperman]

I used to train under Ludwig in Denver. The guy is relentless about drilling combos. Combos combos combos. He also explains WHY you are doing what you are doing, which I've found most striking coaches gloss over or do not touch on at all.

So his style is Dutch Kickboxing + angles + good explanation?

 

[Jukai]

Yea you're right, I didn't mean to downplay his offense that much. I just meant that as the fight went on the shots he was hurting Barao with were the ones I mentioned over and over, and that's what lead to the finish. His offense was definitely varied and effective, really fun to watch.

Yup, and I think that was cause of Duane too. I remember him saying in the fourth or fifth round "STICKTOSOUTHPAWANDKEEPUPTHATLEFTSTRAIGHHIGHKICKCOMBO."
And it worked too, it knocked Barao out. But it worked because Barao (was concussed but also because Barao) had so much to worry about.

what's wrong with saying 'a proper overhand right'?

Sorry man, it was what a now banned poster used to say. It became a semi-humorous meme in Sherdog.

 

[Jukai]

So his style is Dutch Kickboxing + angles + good explanation?

If you really are craving for a legitimate answer, he is neither. He started training for pure Muay Thai, eventually went into K1 and working more K1 style (which would be considered by most Dutch Kickboxing) and then stopped doing kickboxing and trained for MMA almost entirely. You can say that his style is Thai and Dutch kickboxing, but suited for MMA... but a lot of people here get angry when you suggest that boxing or kickboxing in the Octagon is different from in the ring.

I remember reading a thread where he said his style was more based off Bas Rutten style Dutch Kickboxing, but he was giving joke answers that entire thread, so I gotta go back and find it to see if that was a real answer or not.

Edit: Found the thread. Here are some quotes.
When asked how his style differs from other Thai boxing schools:

The BANG Muay Thai system is based off of Bas Rutten's/Dutch Style Muay Thai rather then the Thailand based art.

When asked about good footwork + why he uses a belt system unlike most muay thai schools

Footwork, good rule to follow is what ever direction you want to go, step with that foot first. Go left =step with left foot first. I don't follow traditional Muay Thai, I created my own ranking structure for a few reasons and the main reason is to give students goals to reach while following a path with guidance.

When asked what he'd work on to get great kickboxers he'd fought into MMA

Anyone getting in MMA is say train with the mental state of attacking in each art-jiu Jitsu-wrestling-striking. Rather then "takedown defense OR Submission defense" thanks guys.

And my personal favorite, when asininely asked "What inspired you to try cannabis as a tool to help you design gameplans for the guys at Team Alpha Male?"

Good question. I watched a fight while sober and made notes, watched the same fight later on while flying in my space ship and made notes again and i didn't remember that I made notes already. Once I remembered I made notes for the same fight, 2 times, I compared the notes and noticed a difference so then the journey began.

 

[NidNoi]

His style is doubtful whether it counts as muay thai. His speech confuses that it's a dutch or he fought with own style.

but dutch kickboxing isn't muay thai.

and if it isn't muay thai, should stop using muay thai word.