Social Dr. Fryer (Study on Police Violence, Punished by Claudine Gay) speaks

[ipowerslapmywife]

hmm so if you think affirmative action gives special treatment towards certain people, don't you think that is prejudiced, therefore racism does effect people on an institutional level then right?

What do you mean? The entire point of affirmative action does give special treatment that’s literally what it does. So if a white person or Asian has better credentials for a job they would still have to hire the black person for affirmative action.

systemic racism isn’t proven

 

[filthybliss]

Black people are only a 12% minority and almost lead in all those crimes including violent crime and shootings. For them to be neck and neck with a 70% majority in crimes tells you that they commit crimes are a higher rate than whites. Common sense

Yes but you said they commit more which is not true. If you said they commited more as a proportion than that would be different. For sex offenses and rape,whites lead by a mile though....

Not to mention, white people and black people deal with drugs at similar proportions, why is it that black people are more prevalently punished for it.

Black and white Americans use drugs at similar rates. One group is punished more for it.

Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology, culture, science, the climate crisis, money...

www.vox.com

I think this issue is a lot more complex than you are making it out to be. You seem to be blanketing "Black peope=bad" and "cops=100% rationale and always justified"....

 

[filthybliss]

What do you mean? The entire point of affirmative action does give special treatment that’s literally what it does. So if a white person or Asian has better credentials for a job they would still have to hire the black person for affirmative action.

systemic racism isn’t proven

Lol, you just proved my point. Is it not negatively impacting white/asians on a institutional level then? That is prejudiced because if they were a different skin color, they would have had a different outcome. So therefore racism still exists by your view

 

[ipowerslapmywife]

Yes but you said they commit more which is not true. If you said they commited more as a proportion than that would be different. For sex offenses and rape,whites lead by a mile though....

Not to mention, white people and black people deal with drugs at similar proportions, why is it that black people are more prevalently punished for it.

Black and white Americans use drugs at similar rates. One group is punished more for it.

Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology, culture, science, the climate crisis, money...

www.vox.com

I think this issue is a lot more complex than you are making it out to be. You seem to be blanketing "Black peope=bad" and "cops=100% rationale and always justified"....

Not true, blacks are only 12% minority and have extremely high rape offenses and murder and overall violent crime. Whites are 70% of the population so of course there would be more but it’s insane blacks people despite only being 12% have those high numbers in each crime. That means they do crimes at a higher rate and more often than whites.

 

[filthybliss]

Not true, blacks are only 12% minority and have extremely high rape offenses and murder and overall violent crime. Whites are 70% of the population so of course there would be more but it’s insane blacks people despite only being 12% have those high numbers in each crime. That means they do crimes at a higher rate and more often than whites.

Sure, but the trend is more consistent with and more infused with class rather than skin color. Rich black people commit less crimes than poor white people. Black people have a high percentage of those in lower income brackets so that’s why, the numbers are not that far apart between the two racial groups.

There isn’t some sort of genetic condition that makes certain races more violent or passive than others….

 

[Two Crows]

He's a black guy who claims racism doesn't exist. Lol. That's how he got famous. He's an economics Prof. He looked at a data set and saw the data he wanted to see. His 'studies' have been disproven and only right wing weirdos champion this guy.

And all of this is from 2016 .... Lol. Just like right wing people to reach back and grab some shit they cared nothing about when it actually was relevant. Next well have another t. Sowell phase.

I'm not even sure where to begin with this ...

Nobody on "the Right" champions Fryer, lol.

See his article from January of this year "DEI is worth saving ...", published in the WSJ.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/dei-is...cesses-school-choice-prejudice-merit-5fe12460

He's as Left as they get, and if you bothered to look into any of the relevant information, you'd know this.

The only problem is he admitted the data didn't support a leftist claim. Do you really think a bunch of right-wing associates told him not to publish?

 

[Two Crows]

And their “lived experience” outweighs anyone else’s. Especially those of cops who might say “black people are more aggressive towards us etc”

Just to add context, Fryer has mixed views on cops.

On the one hand, he states the data supports bias at the lowest levels of force, claiming police are more likely to utilize force on black suspects at the lowest levels (such as physical restraint).

On the other, he states that after doing a few Ride-Alongs with the Chicago PD, he became the worst cop ever ... that pretty much EVERYONE started looking suspicious to him.

He describes sympathy, but still thinks the data shows bias at low levels of force (basically everything before the taser comes out or beyond).

 

[Two Crows]

https://scholar.harvard.edu/jfeldman/blog/roland-fryer-wrong-there-racial-bias-shootings-police


I can't say I remember this study or this particular professor's name .... And I would assume it's because when this originally came out in 2016 it wasn't a big deal because s*** like this comes out all the time. Honestly all I needed to know was that he was an economics prof and I knew this would be some bs.

You just suggested Economics was a preposterous field of study ... while citing the " Principal Research Scientist at the Center for Policing Equity". Undergraduate in "Human Ecology", Masters in Social Work, PhD in "Social Epidemiology".

Dissertation: "Using Public Health Data to Monitor Killings by Law Enforcement in the United States"

I have to admit, I can't tell whether you are being serious?

 

[Fox by the Sea]

People want to think that racism in America is like the 1950s, with lynchings and pure police brutality and pretty much you have to have had spent your entire life in one of those big metropolitan cities and never left to believe that.

Racism in 2024 America is looking over your shoulder, and telling someone you trust “Look, I’m not racist but…”

Unless you’re black and yelling slurs at white people, that’s still OK to do in the open.

i remember coming to america in 2003, i almost never heard about it, it looked to be a dying subject, people were just minding their business together.
come back in 2019 - OMG MICROAGRESSIONS WHITE SUPREMACY RACISM!
lol, that shit ain't organic.

 

[Two Crows]

More unarmed shootings on black men might seem racist at first until you look at the context of the shootings. Resisting arrest and fighting the officer, not complying and looking to be reaching for something. If you watch these police videos you can see the suspects doing all the above. Black men lead in overall gun violence all over the country despite only being a 13% minority so of course police would take extra precautions with black males, that’s common sense.

Black Men are not 13% of the population of the USA.

The population of "Black" (male, female, adult, child) of the entire nation is just 14%.

blackdemographics.com claims there are ~20 million black adult men, vs. a national population of 333 million, or 6%.

Given the data on incarceration rates, ~450k are imprisoned at any time.

 

[Two Crows]

Yes but you said they commit more which is not true. If you said they commited more as a proportion than that would be different. For sex offenses and rape,whites lead by a mile though....

Not to mention, white people and black people deal with drugs at similar proportions, why is it that black people are more prevalently punished for it.

Black and white Americans use drugs at similar rates. One group is punished more for it.

Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology, culture, science, the climate crisis, money...

www.vox.com

I think this issue is a lot more complex than you are making it out to be. You seem to be blanketing "Black peope=bad" and "cops=100% rationale and always justified"....

So, I'm not sure how you are reading data, or if you understand what you are reading.

Black men are FAR more likely to commit rape in the USA than White men, see RAINN for details:
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violence

You have 57% White, who are a little less than 33% of the population (and include many Hispanics), while you have the aforementioned 6% of Black adult Black males at 27%.

To be clear, you have less than 1/5 the number of men committing nearly the same number of offenses.

 

[Two Crows]

Sure, but the trend is more consistent with and more infused with class rather than skin color. Rich black people commit less crimes than poor white people. Black people have a high percentage of those in lower income brackets so that’s why, the numbers are not that far apart between the two racial groups.

There isn’t some sort of genetic condition that makes certain races more violent or passive than others….

I apologize for my frankness, but your reference to "genetic conditions" reveals you may be a bigot (perhaps unknowingly).

There is absolutely no relation to "Race" and genetics. "Black", "White", and the other labels referred to as "Race" in the USA are cultural identities, not biological classifications.

 

[Two Crows]

I just want to throw a few things in the thread for clarity:

1. I really like Fryer. I like him much more after hearing him speak, and identify with him nerd-to-nerd. Even though we sit on the opposite ends of many arguments, I feel bad for him and how he was treated.

2. Fryer is no way, shape, or form "Right-wing-anything". This guy is as Left as it gets.

3. Fryer is clearly of a Keynesian bent (see #2), and we disagree strongly here. I'm much more Freeman/Chicago School (odd, since he actually attended Chicago and I did not).

4. There is exceptionally fiery debate among economists on many issues, but not much on his stance of governmental intervention for improvement. Few-to-none of us believe this is an effective route, but Dr. Fryer seems to support it whole-heartedly.

5. The key takeaway from his interview, in my view, is the compromise of academic integrity by politics in the modern western university. It is something EVERYONE should be concerned by, regardless of political bent.

 

[KoChang]

There’s this somewhat new expression, “lived experience”. Certain minorities and marginalized groups are allowed to claim lived experience without any data.
Research that finds anything contradicting lived experience is not allowed, and can lead to firing and cancellation.

This ties in nicely with my most hated progressive mantra: "speak your truth".
This allows dimwits to have their own versions of reality and live in fantasy world. Their lies and self deceptions become "their truth".

 

[JustforBROCK]

I'm not even sure where to begin with this ...

Nobody on "the Right" champions Fryer, lol.

See his article from January of this year "DEI is worth saving ...", published in the WSJ.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/dei-is...cesses-school-choice-prejudice-merit-5fe12460

He's as Left as they get, and if you bothered to look into any of the relevant information, you'd know this.

The only problem is he admitted the data didn't support a leftist claim. Do you really think a bunch of right-wing associates told him not to publish?

Are you fucking retarded? Do you know how to read? I'm not even going to explain it because I don't have conversation with morons.

 

[JustforBROCK]

You just suggested Economics was a preposterous field of study ... while citing the " Principal Research Scientist at the Center for Policing Equity". Undergraduate in "Human Ecology", Masters in Social Work, PhD in "Social Epidemiology".

Dissertation: "Using Public Health Data to Monitor Killings by Law Enforcement in the United States"

I have to admit, I can't tell whether you are being serious?

Yep, you're a fucking idiot.

 

[ShadowRun]

I watched this a day ago and it goes like:
-guy starts a study to find police violence against minorities, which he was convinced he would find
- finds ZERO evidence of that
- publishes study results that shows that despite being told not to
- is violently criticized inside academia that feel their grift is under threat
- gets death threats
- is outspoken about how social sciences have been captured by people that only come to push their biases

It's not far from what a lot of people are waking up to - social sciences are basically a ideologically driven grift, filled with "academics" that are only there to push biased "science" and profit from it. All the shit that comes from it - DEI, people seeing racism everywhere, identity politics - is just ideological drivel disguised as science. and what is basically a quasi-religious enterprise is taken up by morons everywhere, plenty of them in this very forum, and parroted as "science".

That is why I refer to "woke" as being a religion. It's blind faith and action.

 

[RonDante]

Then why are unarmed black people 3x more likely than white people to be shot. That does not sound like equal excessive violence.

Fatal police shootings of unarmed Black people in US more than 3 times as high as in Whites - BMJ Group

Overall fatal shooting rate not budged in 5 years; ‘public health emergency’ say researchers The rate of fatal police shootings of unarmed Black people in the US is more than 3 times as high as it is among White people, finds research published online in the Journal of Epidemiology & Community...

bmjgroup.com

Because blacks interact with police a lot more than whites do, so they’re more likely to get shot by them. Also, unarmed doesn’t mean not being violent

 

[nhbbear]

There is a difference between saying "armed individuals" scare me than saying people with this skin tone are genetically more violent.....

Eitherway, putting to much stock in isolated incidents is never a wise way to analyze systemic issues.

it was an example. i could have and should have expanded further. i should have mentioned police officers lived experience of responding to and have knowledge of the violence of black males and how often they respond to shootings and murders with black males as the suspects and or victims.

my whole point is that we are basically forced to simply take “their lived experiences” while dismissing those of police officers or anyone else.

 

[nhbbear]

Just to add context, Fryer has mixed views on cops.

On the one hand, he states the data supports bias at the lowest levels of force, claiming police are more likely to utilize force on black suspects at the lowest levels (such as physical restraint).

On the other, he states that after doing a few Ride-Alongs with the Chicago PD, he became the worst cop ever ... that pretty much EVERYONE started looking suspicious to him.

He describes sympathy, but still thinks the data shows bias at low levels of force (basically everything before the taser comes out or beyond).

like all force, lethal as well as non lethal, simply looking at the numbers does not tell the story. you have to look at each case which would take forever, which is why i want the wash post-since they keep track, to look at each incident and find out if the suspect was armed, attacking police or others, using a weapon such as gun, knife, or even vehicle. then come back to me and tell me about how blacks are 2.5 times more likely to be shot by police based upon pop-then, figure out whether that has anything at all to do with the stats about murder and shootings AND race. They have a large staff capable of looking at each case and seeing if the officer was cleared or charged. But i don’t think they want to do that because it would show that most of the blacks shot were actual threats. and for those that die in custody after a fight or restraint-what is their health level, drug toxicity, what were they doing to get restrained or arrrested?