Downloading Instructional Torrents

[YeahBee]

Also if they choose to put out a dvd, they are paid from that also. Are you saying that normal classes and seminars are the only way an instructor should be paid? If you take money away from someone then it's taking away money. At least be honest with yourself and don't come up with some bullshit philosophical excuse.

But you are not taking away money ffs.

If downloading took away money how can the movie industry put out blockbuster after blockbuster?

People spend more money then ever on movies, books and albumbs, and in ADDITION, on top of, call it what you will download

Sometimes it is in addition to nothing because not all can afford to spend money like that.

Even if you do have money you may consider it too expensive and would never shell out that kind of money so it is taking no money away whatsoever


How can you completely blow of the great benefits of downloading and material being spread? Do you think the UFC would be in Europe by now if it wasn't for pirating? people traded homemade VHS tapes for years ffs, then the internet came along and then finally it got on TV

The more material there is out there(regardless of how people got their hands on it) the better for the whole BJJ community. way back when people started BJJ clubs from scratch and used whatever material they got their hands on. now we have plenty of European fighters in the UFC

the bigger the scene the more potential for future clients for bjjers/mma guys to come and teach

 

[Galen Spielman]

Hey guys, I downloaded Gracie Combatives last night. I admit it. Now the Gracies will go broke, and surely I would have shelled out a hundred dollars or so if it wasn't available online. Because I really had that money to blow on instructionals. But despite it being readily available, and having NO intention of ever purchasing it, I have caused irreparable damage to the Gracies and society by consuming knowledge only people who have more money than me should be privy to. Next time I see that free download link, I'll tell myself, "I haven't earned that. I have no right to view it. Only people with money have the right to enjoy good instruction. And oh, the damage I will do if I shall. I shall retreat to the corner and work on my shadow puppets for the evening."

Yeah this is one of the dumber posts i've seen on Sherdog, I will agree. You HAVEN'T earned it, and you HAVE no right to view it hahahahaha. That "I wanna train BJJ" cartoon is made for you. It becomes a matter of where you want to put your hard earned money. If you don't want to put it into Jiu Jitsu, then that's fine. If you want to pirate, then I could care less, but don't try to cry out "FREEDOM" like William Wallace. Ryan and other guys putting out DVDs aren't dumb enough to assume that their products aren't going to get pirated. However, they have faith in maintaining a certain group of people that appreciate what they do to the extent that they'll shell out money for it. I won't go holier than thou and say don't pirate his DVD, but if it's anything like the first one, there is enough information on those two DVDs to completely form a game around that you can use for the rest of your BJJ career. If that's not worth 100+whatever dollars, then I dunno what is.

 

[YeahBee]

This is arguable and I'm sure most publishers and people who make the instructionals would disagree.



Agreed to a degree but movie/record industry analogy doesnt really apply here because you're not taking into consideration an analysis of market risk. BJJ instructionals are a far higher risk than movies or records because the target market is very niche, hence it is far more expensive to produce these instead of movies/records because of the opportunity cost. So pirating these hurt a lot more than pirating a movie.

.

Production costs in these days must be negligible. heck my cell phone has got an HD videocamera. it is not like there is a need or use for CGI. If production costs are high they are probably working with companies who are stuck in old time methods

And re

you dont really have any evidence that pirating instructionals spreads the knowledge more than a traditional distribution method, only a theory.

Well I don't have the numbers infront of me, not even sure that you could get the numbers for downloads but that doesn't matter because your statement is faulty. It is not about two competing distributions. My claim is that downloading increases consumption not that downloading takes a piece of regular distribution

selling and downloading would be more then selling alone

 

[gotobread]

It's why every BJJ school in the world will allow you to train at their place for free.

Wait...

 

[nefti]

But you are not taking away money ffs.

If downloading took away money how can the movie industry put out blockbuster after blockbuster?

you are still taking away money. They are just not making as much money as they potentially can because of piracy.

People spend more money then ever on movies, books and albumbs, and in ADDITION, on top of, call it what you will download

Sometimes it is in addition to nothing because not all can afford to spend money like that.

Even if you do have money you may consider it too expensive and would never shell out that kind of money so it is taking no money away whatsoever

again you are looking it from YOUR prespective only, not the perspecitve of the person that used his knowlage and time to produce a product that he INTENDED TO SELL and MAKE MONEY OUT OF. It's simple as that, it's not about what YOU think its about what the person who actually put in their time, effort, and knowlage wants.

How can you completely blow of the great benefits of downloading and material being spread? Do you think the UFC would be in Europe by now if it wasn't for pirating? people traded homemade VHS tapes for years ffs, then the internet came along and then finally it got on TV

The more material there is out there(regardless of how people got their hands on it) the better for the whole BJJ community. way back when people started BJJ clubs from scratch and used whatever material they got their hands on. now we have plenty of European fighters in the UFC

the bigger the scene the more potential for future clients for bjjers/mma guys to come and teach

It is not up to you to make that decision, if it was the case did you ask the guys who made the dvd's? Did you write a letter or an email to marcelo, budovideos, WMA, Drysdale ect with your real name arguing this? No, my guess is that you haven't. Again what you fail to realize is that it does not matter what you think or what your financial situation is or what you intensions are. The important fact is this, the guys who made dvd's wanted to sell and make money off DVD sales and you are negatively effecting that.

Just out of curiosity, have you tried to give money in other ways? Did you order a T shirt or any product that the instructor and distributor sells to make up for negatively effecting their dvd sales? Or did you say "oh fuck it, I WANT it, I NEED it, so I WILL TAKE IT."

 

[rnaviaux]

There are those who insist that torrents do not effect producers and instructors as 'the people who use them wouldnt buy anyway', and some who say that it doesnt effect sales anyway..

I dont know about the first one, but I can tell you that it does effect sales in a very negative way.

I produce instructional videos, DVDs, Downloads, subscription viewing and iapps...

Ive seen videos released and within the first 10 units sold on one occasion, hit the torrent sites. Then over 700 downloads in the first day of release... compared to very few actual purchases.

Its not a quality thing either, as they always get brilliant reviews on the torrent sites, and those who are 'caring' enough to upload them, get piled high with praise!


Its also a myth that the instructors are loaded and dont need the income.
They wouldnt bother doing them if they were.

Not to mention the producers who pay thousands to keep content going on all formats and worldwide...

Ever thought how much it costs to film, produce, stock and distribute a DVD on NTSC and PAL and then distribute worldwide?... its thousands just to get started.

Ive seen a direct drop in sales that matches direct rise in torrent downloads all the time. The two are related.


I do think there will be people who will always use torrent though, with a number of reasons mixed maybe with excuses for some.



So, to cater for those who genuinely cannot afford the purchase quality content, I will give some away for free

Sign up to CageFilm.com - Martial Arts Instruction Online and pm me your user name. I will give you a free video.

If you like it and can afford it, feel free to send me $10! or buy another from the site. They all cost just $10... (

 

[nefti]

Guys who dl for whatever reason will do it no matter what. At least have the decency to not come here trying to jusitfy you negative impact in another person's income.

 

[YeahBee]

Guys who dl for whatever reason will do it no matter what. At least have the decency to not come here trying to jusitfy you negative impact in another person's income.

Or guys with flawed logic can get of their high horses and stfu when they clearly don't understand it all

 

[lechien]

Or guys with flawed logic can get of their high horses and stfu when they clearly don't understand it all

Oh, we understand you pretty good.

You are the robin hood of F12.

 

[nodferatu]

it's still stealing, it's a product that is intended to be sold and you took the product (i.e knowlage) without paying for it. Marcelo Garcia didn't set up his site because the dvd pirating didn't hurt him, he did it because it's much more difficult to rip vids off the internet and organize them in high quality.

No it's not, people have already ripped his site.

 

[YeahBee]

you are still taking away money. They are just not making as much money as they potentially can because of piracy.

In most cases there is no potential there in the first place

again you are looking it from YOUR prespective only, not the perspecitve of the person that used his knowlage and time to produce a product that he INTENDED TO SELL and MAKE MONEY OUT OF. It's simple as that, it's not about what YOU think its about what the person who actually put in their time, effort, and knowlage wants.

So I can't speak from a broader perspective but you can speak from a specific?

it is called a martial artist for a reason. The great would still be doing what they were doing because of the love of the art

Why do brazilian blackbelts come to the cold Nordic countries? the earning potential is next to nothing compared to the US. We pay like 10 bucks a head for a three day camp with 2-3 classes a day

they want to help the sport grow

It is not up to you to make that decision, if it was the case did you ask the guys who made the dvd's? Did you write a letter or an email to marcelo, budovideos, WMA, Drysdale ect with your real name arguing this? No, my guess is that you haven't. Again what you fail to realize is that it does not matter what you think or what your financial situation is or what you intensions are. The important fact is this, the guys who made dvd's wanted to sell and make money off DVD sales and you are negatively effecting that.

Just out of curiosity, have you tried to give money in other ways? Did you order a T shirt or any product that the instructor and distributor sells to make up for negatively effecting their dvd sales? Or did you say "oh fuck it, I WANT it, I NEED it, so I WILL TAKE IT."

I am not effecting it in any way, they are not losing a customer or a potential customer

It is not take it is copy

I don't use instructional to any great length youtube suffices, I have had my garage grappling days and youtube stuff was enough. I could not justify the cost for what it is. I have bought a few books. Patches and gi's straight from the blackbelt

I have copied TONS of stuff for uni thru my days. there is just too much stuff to buy or loan from the library, never stolen a book from a store or the library thou because that would affect them, copying doesn't

 

[YeahBee]

Oh, we understand you pretty good.

You are the robin hood of F12.

Jesus is more appropriate

Robin Hood took something, rightfully so

Jesus copied!

those people would have starved, him giving out copies didn't affect the fishermen or the bakers

 

[YeahBee]

 

[lechien]

Jesus is more appropriate

those people would have starved, him giving out copies didn't affect the fishermen or the bakers

Keep telling that to yourselves, mate but I am sure all the top BJJ BBs that released vids would not agree with you.

You are affecting their business.

 

[lechien]

Why do brazilian blackbelts come to the cold Nordic countries? the earning potential is next to nothing compared to the US. We pay like 10 bucks a head for a three day camp with 2-3 classes a day

they want to help the sport grow

You are dreaming.

the only reason why they going up north to freeze is because they could not get a visa to teach in Cali.

even in the US, the top guys always want to go where it is hot and you can surf. and you can charge $150 per month on a freaking contract.

It is not about helping the sport to grow! It is their job.

It is different from the Kodokan or the JKA days when the leader would dispatch his students and allocate them countries where they would go teach and live for the rest of their life.

 

[Jinzumkei]

Production costs in these days must be negligible. heck my cell phone has got an HD videocamera. it is not like there is a need or use for CGI. If production costs are high they are probably working with companies who are stuck in old time methods

I wasn't speaking of production costs, I was speaking of opportunity costs. Which is (definition of opportunity cost).

But since you mentioned it production costs go beyond just a video camera. I'm sure the cost would probably surprise you. What about licensing, insurance, lawyers, etc. So no it's not negligible as you claim.

And re
Well I don't have the numbers infront of me, not even sure that you could get the numbers for downloads but that doesn't matter because your statement is faulty. It is not about two competing distributions. My claim is that downloading increases consumption not that downloading takes a piece of regular distribution
selling and downloading would be more then selling alone

Of course you don't have the numbers in front of you. They probably don't exist even if they did, it would be arguable that they were even accurate.

Ok let me revise and summarize your point about the market so I can provide a counterpoint: Downloading increases consumption because it offers an alternative distribution method to just selling. Increased consumption is good for the market because it attracts more potential customers. Does that sound about right?

Based on circumstantial evidence alone, point 1 is probably true (although neither you nor I can prove it).

Point 2 is very things get tricky because you're trying to equate potential customers to real value. The problem is that as the market grows so may your piece of the pie. This is because as a market expands so does competition. The market becomes saturated and you end up making even less than you did before.

Ok so forget about profits, because your real point is that you want a wide, free exchange of knowledge which would benefit the group as a whole. i.e. Competition breeds a stronger product. Now you're talking about game theory. Of course this notion is countered with the Prisoner's dilemma. If you want to understand this you should probably just read the wiki: Prisoner's dilemma because it will explain it better than I will.

But the gist of it is that: If all the individuals of a collective become better, it doesn't automatically make the group better.

See, this problem is probably far more complex than you thought.

 

[NateTx4112]

Yeahbee you want an answer from someone ask gerbil what his honest opinion of your thoughts. He did an instructional to raise money for brazil. Pm him this link and see if he agrees with you.

 

[NateTx4112]

See if Jeremy would be ok with you ripping his DVD and putting it on a torrent site and how that affects him directly, costs him money and may have cut short his trip due to funds thus lowering the quality of grappling as a whole. He might not have been able to stay in brazil to get his black and return home to open his school.

You don't have to make excuses for you downloading stuff just don't say you are doing it for the greater good when you are truly being selfish and feel entitled to it. You want but don't want to pay for it. Just admit that and stop trying to justify why you are in the right and doing it for selfless reasons or because you deserve it.

 

[YeahBee]

Does that sound about right?

better customers, better and more practitioners

People seem to think that if downloading was amde impossible all of a sudden sales would skyrocket. And I postulate that this is not the case

When the Pirate Bay trial came to verdict in Sweden, downloads dropped for a while for fear of persecution. And yet not no raise in sales

And Nate jumps on the bandwagon with a flawed argument

If I downloaded something gerbils or not it wouldn't be instead of paying. this is the nucleus of the whole matter.


should I feel bad because I can't and frankly don't wanna support some internet guy's (who is very cool and helpful) trip to Brazil? It is not exactly a charity(which I give to regularly and do non for profit work) worth cause, I almost got more then I can handle now with rent/food, education, my dog who I recently had to get surgery for ileus, wanna help with that? put a dent in my bankaccount I hadn't budgeted in

 

[YeahBee]

Even if there is a small decline in sales when something hits the torrent sites, the benefits of more people having it and getting better outweights that

What do you think a guy who puts out an instructional rather want?

100 people buying his DVD- 100 people showing up for a seminar

or 100 people buying his DVD, 100 downloading it- 200 people showing up for a seminar (and would probably attend the next time to)

even if 50 people less bought the dvd and downloaded instead he would still come out on top