Downloading Instructional Torrents

[dza76wutang]

While illegal, here's what I do with most forms of media.
I DL it first, view it, and if I like it, I purchase it to patronize the artist/producer/etc*. Since you either can't return opened media or you can but at a fraction of the cost, I don't see a moral conflict in checking things out before I pony up the cash, especially when multi-dvd sets end up costing triple digits. In the case of instructionals however, I've been finding the ROI kind of poor, so I'd rather buy some privates than drop 100-200 on DVDs, unless the DVD covers something I can't find good private instruction in, plus you can get tactile feed back that you can't get from a DVD.

The glaring exception to this is movies. The cost of a ticket is low enough that even a marginally entertaining movie will leave me feeling satisfied with my purchase.

*this is why videogame demos are brilliant, let me play the full game, albeit in a limited fashion, and I'll usually buy it if I like the demo. Blind VG purchases have been some of the biggest disappointments in my entertainment life.

 

[Jdonw]

Eh? How do you rectify people borrowing DVD's? How do you rectify me showing someone else the technique? My local library had a Judo DVD; I didn't pay a single red cent. Is it still wrong? This is a stupid standard.

I didn't establish a standard. In fact, I'm not even arguing if downloading is right or wrong. What I'm saying is, its not as simple as black and white, right and wrong.

How has anybody rectified lending books or movies, its acceptable now. Has the movie industry gotten on you for sharing plots to movies after you see it? The library payed for the dvd for the purpose of sharing it as a public service. Don't even act like what you are saying is challenging in the least to the actual discussion of copyright infringement. We are talking about massive scale redistribution, not a library card, or sharing your toys.

 

[bagelgod]

I didn't establish a standard. In fact, I'm not even arguing if downloading is right or wrong. What I'm saying is, its not as simple as black and white, right and wrong.

How has anybody rectified lending books or movies, its acceptable now. Has the movie industry gotten on you for sharing plots to movies after you see it? The library payed for the dvd for the purpose of sharing it as a public service. Don't even act like what you are saying is challenging in the least to the actual discussion of copyright infringement. We are talking about massive scale redistribution, not a library card, or sharing your toys.

Actually, you made no reference to copyright infringement, and neither was my discussion of your post in relation to copyright infringement. Go ahead, re-read what I quoted. What you said was that it was the abstract of knowledge that's important, and implied that stealing that was wrong. That the accumulated hours of experience is what is not being redressed by pirates. I provided many legal ways that I can accomplish the same feat as pirates, attempting to illustrate that your elements are faulty.

The discussion of copyright infringement is a different one entirely, and one I see no point in having on fucking sherdog of all places.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

If it is one or a few doesn't matter, The USSR had its own ruling class even thou they were supposed to be a classless society

First, truce. We're cool.

Second, I'd like to point out something I think is pretty funny. You were arguing that society is more important than the individual and then arguing that you should ignore the law of the society imposed. I was arguing that the individual was more important than the society and yet was telling people to subsume their individual desires to abide by the societal edict on intellectual property.

:redface:

I haven't decide yet which of us in the bigger hypocrite yet, but I'm prepared to assume it's me.

:icon_chee

 

[rnaviaux]

Lots of very clever rationalizations. So your having a cup of coffee with Xande and discussing his new instructional series. He asks you how you liked them and you say that they are great and you have gotten a lot out of them. But since you illegally downloaded them you decide to pay for his coffee. Do you tell him that your a thief? Do you get self righteous about it when he tells you to piss off?

 

[Jdonw]

Actually, you made no reference to copyright infringement, and neither was my discussion of your post in relation to copyright infringement. Go ahead, re-read what I quoted. What you said was that it was the abstract of knowledge that's important, and implied that stealing that was wrong. That the accumulated hours of experience is what is not being redressed by pirates. I provided many legal ways that I can accomplish the same feat as pirates, attempting to illustrate that your elements are faulty.

The discussion of copyright infringement is a different one entirely, and one I see no point in having on fucking sherdog of all places.

Your discussion is the opening to arguments of intellectual property rights. It doesn't scratch the surface of the argument. Regardless we are talking about original created works based on another persons knowledge. But good, go to a library, lend it to a friend, you attempted to illustrate my fault, but failed. I'm sure there are holes in my argument, you just haven't found them yet.

But if we want to go this way, why not digitally change bank statements. Its just ones and zeros in a bank's computer system, nobody is getting hurt.

 

[bagelgod]

Your discussion is the opening to arguments of intellectual property rights. It doesn't scratch the surface of the argument. Regardless we are talking about original created works based on another persons knowledge. But good, go to a library, lend it to a friend, you attempted to illustrate my fault, but failed. I'm sure there are holes in my argument, you just haven't found them yet.

Tell me, when you read, do you just mash your face into the computer screen, drool and blood pooling beneath you, while your moonshine bottle sits wantingly on the adjacent shelf, almost beckoning you to take another swag before you continue your stunning (in a bad way) interpretation of "arguments" of intellectual property rights, or what constitute these? Nevermind that, in your moonshine haze, you didn't say a damn word about IP rights, but blathered on (and continue to do so) about the injustice of taking someone's knowledge without paying for it; you're clearly right and gosh darned you're not gonna give up till everyone knows it, even if it means completely disregarding what those other people are saying!

But if we want to go this way, why not digitally change bank statements. Its just ones and zeros in a bank's computer system, nobody is getting hurt.

Seriously? Look dude, it's obvious you want to "win" this argument rather than see why you're not making any sense. I've never used the "ITS OK BECAUSE NOBODY'S GETTING HURT" argument. There are remedies to copyright infringement. People obviously can get hurt by it.

But you clearly have no clue what the hell you're talking about and are incapable of producing coherent analogies. Please stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[YeahBee]

First, truce. We're cool.

Second, I'd like to point out something I think is pretty funny. You were arguing that society is more important than the individual and then arguing that you should ignore the law of the society imposed. I was arguing that the individual was more important than the society and yet was telling people to subsume their individual desires to abide by the societal edict on intellectual property.

:redface:

I haven't decide yet which of us in the bigger hypocrite yet, but I'm prepared to assume it's me.

:icon_chee

:icon_chee

the community is wrong on so many accounts, even on those things that are supposed to be good for society, the people are stupid:icon_twis

I often describe myself as a liberal socialist/Social liberalist just because it is stances that are often diametrical in nature, and I think most people are in many cases just like that. I love animals, mistreatment of animals is despicable yet I love to hunt and deep down think that bullfighting is pretty cool

I created my own very specific ideologue that covers everything or is up to my own judgement on a case by case basis

 

[YeahBee]

Tell me, when you read, do you just mash your face into the computer screen, drool and blood pooling beneath you, while your moonshine bottle sits wantingly on the adjacent shelf, almost beckoning you to take another swag before you continue your stunning (in a bad way) interpretation of "arguments" of intellectual property rights, or what constitute these? Nevermind that, in your moonshine haze, you didn't say a damn word about IP rights, but blathered on (and continue to do so) about the injustice of taking someone's knowledge without paying for it; you're clearly right and gosh darned you're not gonna give up till everyone knows it, even if it means completely disregarding what those other people are saying!


.

hey hey now Bagel ease up. a man should be perfectly fine to make his own moonshine! You can pry my jug out of my cold dead hand!

 

[nefti]

if you can't afford a book, is it right to steal it?

 

[bagelgod]

if you can't afford a book, is it right to photocopy it?

You're welcome.

 

[KaosX]

I created my own very specific ideologue that covers everything or is up to my own judgement on a case by case basis

It's called objectivism. You never assume or mandate that someone else's morals should match your own, nor do you expect it. It doesn't mean that you agree with what they've done just that their reasoning may be different from your own.

I take bits and pieces and just try to make my way along.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I think that these guys dedicate their whole lives to this sport and often all that knowledge only makes up 2-3 DVDs worth of material, and they need to get paid for that. I never pirate DVDs, thought after I buy them I will loan the physical copies to friends.

Piracy is stealing, don't think it's not. If you want to do it anyway and justify it somehow that's your deal, but don't try to make the case that it's not theft.

 

[nefti]

You're welcome.

it's still stealing, it's a product that is intended to be sold and you took the product (i.e knowlage) without paying for it. Marcelo Garcia didn't set up his site because the dvd pirating didn't hurt him, he did it because it's much more difficult to rip vids off the internet and organize them in high quality.

 

[YeahBee]

if you can't afford a book, is it right to steal it?

this whole debate goes right over your head dude

 

[nefti]

this whole debate goes right over your head dude

no, because what' being stolen isn't paper and ink but the knowlage that is in that paper and ink. If you buy a book it's for the knowlage not because you wanted dead trees and ink.

 

[YeahBee]

it's still stealing, it's a product that is intended to be sold and you took the product (i.e knowlage) without paying for it. Marcelo Garcia didn't set up his site because the dvd pirating didn't hurt him, he did it because it's much more difficult to rip vids off the internet and organize them in high quality.

Having it organized via a website may be the superior product to, much more interactive.

the same setup could probably be made free thou by using advertisment, maybe have a plat thing like sherdog

 

[YeahBee]

no, because what' being stolen isn't paper and ink but the knowlage that is in that paper and ink. If you buy a book it's for the knowlage not because you wanted dead trees and ink.

Simply the more knowledge the better, how can this be hard to fathom?

take Harvard for instance a bastion of knowledge right? 50 grand a year? (I dunno just guessing)

Now like most Universities they have distance students aswell, that follow lectures via streaming online, and yet anybody can access those lectures free of charge, because spreading knowledge is a good thing. even those who can't afford it can benefit from it, for a personal benefit or perhaps a kid who goes to community college which isn't as good as Harvard

in the end EVERYBODY benefits from people being more knowledgeable or just being more entertained

You people gotta snap out of this notion that it is an either or question, it is not buying or downloading, it is buying AND downloading or downloading when you can't buy. This attitude about work harder to get what you want is such a spoiled brat attitude and I'd wager that most of those people have never had a real honest manual job

I have given numerous examples before but you are set in your way, downloading doesn't hurt. the spread of knowledge is a good thing

 

[gotobread]

This attitude about work harder to get what you want is such a spoiled brat attitude and I'd wager that most of those people have never had a real honest manual job

Wait... what? Isn't that the complete opposite of a "spoiled brat attitude"? I was always under the impression that "spoiled brats" expected more for doing less.

 

[fiftysvn]

This attitude about work harder to get what you want is such a spoiled brat attitude and I'd wager that most of those people have never had a real honest manual job

I fail to see how working harder (and learning to save your money) is a spoiled brat attitude.

What does an honest manual job entail?