Elections DOGE is formed

[GearSolidMetal]

It does however grant Congress power of the purse, and legally federal agencies must spend everything appropiated to them.

Except the agencies don't spend everything, as this thread goes into detail about with many department mysteriously losing hundreds of billions of dollars.

But please do feel free to point me to the part of the Constituion that gives a president unilateral power to eliminate federal agencies.

It doesn't. Over the last 230+ years federal powers have extended beyond what they were originally intended.
But the founders obviously never intended for there to be 430+ departments which most of which have no true purpose or benefit.

Oh, so Trump was a dumbass who didn't know what the fuck he was doing? But now he magically does? You are gullible.

'Dumbass' is a strong insult, but its clear he was learning on the job of his first term.

Keep in mind Trump is already saying the corporate tax rate should be further reduced, which would expand deficits.

I'll keep that in mind, especially after you avoided like the plague if lowering the capital gains rate increased the tax revenue.

The country has already had a president who served non-consecutive terms.

I specifically said 'modern political history.'

A president's first term is nothing special, they are free to completely swap cabinets for their second term.

Name a president with a more successful second term than their first.

And if a president wins reelection its a sign their tirst term was successful so why change anything in their second.

Trump ran on different issues in 2024 than in 2016, so he has different promises to keep.

 

[ShadowRun]

Gov wasteful spending in real time

 

[Seano]

Gov wasteful spending in real time

Take that Trump! We just wiped our asses with 6 billion of taxpayers dollars!

 

[Poon Goon]

Gov wasteful spending in real time

Take that Trump! We just wiped our asses with 6 billion of taxpayers dollars!

Article says the money is coming from a program that predated Biden and helped Tesla in the past as well.

The money would come from the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program, which provides low-interest loans to make fuel-efficient vehicles and components. The program has focused mostly on loans to new battery factories for electric vehicles under Biden, but earlier helped finance initial production of the Tesla Model S and Nissan Leaf, two pioneering electric vehicles.

The loan program, created in 2007, requires a “reasonable prospect of repayment” of the loan. Under Biden, the program has announced deals totaling $33.3 billion, including $9.2 billion for massive battery plants in Tennessee and Kentucky for Ford’s electric vehicles.

 

[avenue94]

Except the agencies don't spend everything, as this thread goes into detail about with many department mysteriously losing hundreds of billions of dollars.

Much of that money will have been spent, but not properly accounted for. Once again you are flailing about because you only understand talking points and have no ability to think critically on what those talking points mean. The Pentagon isn't sitting on $800 billion in cash that they forgot to spend.

It doesn't. Over the last 230+ years federal powers have extended beyond what they were originally intended.
But the founders obviously never intended for there to be 430+ departments which most of which have no true purpose or benefit.

Which departments do you think have no purpose or benefit? Did your talking points at least give you that much?

'Dumbass' is a strong insult, but its clear he was learning on the job of his first term.

Yet he decided to ignore the CBO's warning that his tax cuts would cause debt to balloon. Funny how Trump, who you admit was a fool and had no idea what he was doing, decided to ignore the warnings of those with more experience. The same kind of experience he wants to push out of civil service now.

I'll keep that in mind, especially after you avoided like the plague if lowering the capital gains rate increased the tax revenue.

In some instances it correlates with higher revenue, in others in correlates with lower revenue. Which is to say capital gains still doesn't show a Laffer Curve. Your attempt to portray capital gains revenue as that is comical given how many moving parts go into that equation.

Name a president with a more successful second term than their first.

And if a president wins reelection its a sign their tirst term was successful so why change anything in their second.

Trump ran on different issues in 2024 than in 2016, so he has different promises to keep.

Clinton, Eisenhower, LBG (his first full term was his second), FDR's later terms were uneven but impressive, Regan, etc.

And Trump is running on the same issues: racial grievances aimed at immigrants, shifting the tax burden to lower income Americans, and otherwise bulllshitting his way through having no credible policy plans.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Much of that money will have been spent, but not properly accounted for. Once again you are flailing about because you only understand talking points and have no ability to think critically on what those talking points mean. The Pentagon isn't sitting on $800 billion in cash that they forgot to spend.

'Not properly accounted for.'
But we know they spent it.
We just have to take their word they spent it, without knowing what they spent it on.
And apparently thats acceptable to you.

Which departments do you think have no purpose or benefit? Did your talking points at least give you that much?

Your talking points don't even know whats the purpose of 430+ federal departments are.

Could we cut that down to 50 departments and would the public even notice the 380 departments absence?

Yet he decided to ignore the CBO's warning that his tax cuts would cause debt to balloon.

Yet federal revenue continued to increase for 2017, 2018,&2019, but the pandemic hit for 2020.

U.S. Federal Government Tax Revenue

The federal government generates tax revenue through sources like income and corporate taxes. Learn how much tax revenue the U.S. generates each year.

www.thebalancemoney.com

FY 2023	$4.44 trillion
FY 2022	$4.90 trillion
FY 2021	$4.05 trillion
FY 2020	$3.42 trillion
FY 2019	$3.46 trillion
FY 2018	$3.33 trillion
FY 2017	$3.32 trillion
FY 2016	$3.27 trillion
FY 2015	$3.25 trillion

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Funny how Trump, who you admit was a fool and had no idea what he was doing, decided to ignore the warnings of those with more experience. The same kind of experience he wants to push out of civil service now.

Never did I say he was a 'fool,' I said he clearly made many mistakes.

I'm not a head-in-the-sand rightwinger in the same way you're a head-in-the-sand leftist.

You're constantly putting the blame on Trump for everything and never putting any blame on Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Biden.

In some instances it correlates with higher revenue, in others in correlates with lower revenue. Which is to say capital gains still doesn't show a Laffer Curve. Your attempt to portray capital gains revenue as that is comical given how many moving parts go into that equation.

Regardless, congress seems to not give a damn what the revenue and they spend as much as they can without regard for the debt or any persuit of a balanced budget.

Clinton, Eisenhower, LBG (his first full term was his second), FDR's later terms were uneven but impressive, Regan, etc.

I asked for a president whos second term was MORE successful than the first. Not 'impressive' in your view.

And Trump is running on the same issues: racial grievances aimed at immigrants, shifting the tax burden to lower income Americans, and otherwise bulllshitting his way through having no credible policy plans.

And what else does MSNBC & The View saying?

 

[avenue94]

'Not properly accounted for.'
But we know they spent it.
We just have to take their word they spent it, without knowing what they spent it on.
And apparently thats acceptable to you.

You keep assuming like a dumbass here. I would have cut DoD funding a long time ago. But the first part of fixing any problems with waste is first understanding what's waste and what's bad accounting record keeping (which is a different problem). Notice how I'm laying out steps to accurately diagnose and fix a complex problem, not just posting memes and random screenshots like a snake oil salesman.

Your talking points don't even know whats the purpose of 430+ federal departments are.

Could we cut that down to 50 departments and would the public even notice the 380 departments absence?

Ya it'd be noticed. Like I said, it's telling you can only blather on about how hundreds of departments need to be axed, but you can't name which ones need to be axed.

Yet federal revenue continued to increase for 2017, 2018,&2019, but the pandemic hit for 2020.

Revenue was down compared to what it would have been pre-tax cut. For example, FY 2018 revenue was expected to be $3.6 trillion before the tax cuts. Notice how deficit increases substantially, and even when using the most optimistic dynamic scoring the deficit still barely declines.

Spoiler

Never did I say he was a 'fool,' I said he clearly made many mistakes.

I'm not a head-in-the-sand rightwinger in the same way you're a head-in-the-sand leftist.

You're constantly putting the blame on Trump for everything and never putting any blame on Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Biden.

Ignoring the glaring alarms and warnings from people who know better isn't a mistake, that's weaponized ignorance and gall. Your talking points are literal head in the sand righwinger, and I'm actually on the more moderate end of economics. And this thread is about Trump claiming that he'll balance the books even though he was among the worst offenders as far as fiscal discipline. Why would I talk about other presidents?

Regardless, congress seems to not give a damn what the revenue and they spend as much as they can without regard for the debt or any persuit of a balanced budget.

You are correct, although the GOP tends to do a lot worse with deficits in the modern era.

I asked for a president whos second term was MORE successful than the first. Not 'impressive' in your view.

Yeah those guys were more successful their second term.

And what else does MSNBC & The View saying?

I don't watch any liberal media, aside from the odd Daily Show clip for entertainment, not education. You should try doing the same sometime, read a variety of sources and critically assess them to form your own thoughts.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

You keep assuming like a dumbass here. I would have cut DoD funding a long time ago. But the first part of fixing any problems with waste is first understanding what's waste and what's bad accounting record keeping (which is a different problem). Notice how I'm laying out steps to accurately diagnose and fix a complex problem, not just posting memes and random screenshots like a snake oil salesman.

Memes and screenshots of headlines of government waste isn't the tactics of 'snake oil salesmen.' Its communication of a problem that needs to be solved throughout government spending.

Happy to hear you're onboard for the DoD being audited.

Ya it'd be noticed. Like I said, it's telling you can only blather on about how hundreds of departments need to be axed, but you can't name which ones need to be axed.

Its telling you assume 430+ departments are needed.

I do assume the total findings and recommendations of DOGE will be made publicly available.

Revenue was down compared to what it would have been pre-tax cut. For example, FY 2018 revenue was expected to be $3.6 trillion before the tax cuts. Notice how deficit increases substantially, and even when using the most optimistic dynamic scoring the deficit still barely declines.

Spoiler

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Thats just speculation without taking into account the additional economic activity from the tax cuts.

What do businesses do with the additional money they're allowed to keep? Invest in the business.
What do people do with do with additional money they're allowed to keep? Spend it.

Ignoring the glaring alarms and warnings from people who know better isn't a mistake, that's weaponized ignorance and gall. Your talking points are literal head in the sand righwinger, and I'm actually on the more moderate end of economics. And this thread is about Trump claiming that he'll balance the books even though he was among the worst offenders as far as fiscal discipline. Why would I talk about other presidents?

I'm not a head-in-the-sand rightwinger because I can acknowledge the mistakes Trump made in his first term, while not agreeing all of the attacks against him from the left are correct.

Was Trump an overspender? Yep, he blindly signed every budget that was put infront of him with very few demands of the congress.
Not even defunding Planned Parenthood.
Not even getting the necessary funds to 'build the wall' on the southern border.

As for his 2nd term, we shall see.

You are correct, although the GOP tends to do a lot worse with deficits in the modern era.

'Alot worse?'

$35.85 trillion national debt, currently.

Best argument you could make is Trump was just as bad as Obama & Biden.

Yeah those guys were more successful their second term.

Rather than give explanations for all of them, could you state your case for why Clinton's second term was better than his first?

I don't watch any liberal media, aside from the odd Daily Show clip for entertainment, not education. You should try doing the same sometime, read a variety of sources and critically assess them to form your own thoughts

Sounds like you haven't bothered to analyze Trump's third campaign to be president and compared how it was different than his first or second.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Wonder if they’ll let Trump overcharge the secret service for staying at his hotels again

 

[Seano]

Article says the money is coming from a program that predated Biden and helped Tesla in the past as well.

The money would come from the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program, which provides low-interest loans to make fuel-efficient vehicles and components. The program has focused mostly on loans to new battery factories for electric vehicles under Biden, but earlier helped finance initial production of the Tesla Model S and Nissan Leaf, two pioneering electric vehicles.

The loan program, created in 2007, requires a “reasonable prospect of repayment” of the loan. Under Biden, the program has announced deals totaling $33.3 billion, including $9.2 billion for massive battery plants in Tennessee and Kentucky for Ford’s electric vehicles.

The claim is the plant is no longer opening for production.

 

[Poon Goon]

The claim is the plant is no longer opening for production.

I believe that's the point of getting the loan. Company planned on opening the Georgia plant so they could start building another model of their cars there. They ran into financial problems and couldn't finish construction on that plant so they had to produce that model at an existing plant. This loan will allow them to finish the Georgia plant and begin producing more vehicles.

 

[Andy Capp]

I'm guessing but hoping I'm not the first one to point out that GAO exists and DOGE (brought to you by the party of small government) is redundant? Has any public figure or even Suredogger commented on this?

No, you're not the first. I have as well. I've also pointed out those DOGE douches have no power to take any action whatsoever.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

 

[Phisher]

I just saw that Rogan had Marc Andreesen on to help push the anti-CFPB propaganda.

Hilariously stupid.

Bipartisan Opposition Grows to Debanking by Wall Street

A bipartisan coalition of unlikely "bedfellows" opposed to financial blacklisting by tech giants and Wall Street behemoths is rising.

www.breitbart.com

 

[avenue94]

Its telling you assume 430+ departments are needed.

I do assume the total findings and recommendations of DOGE will be made publicly available.

I didn't say 430 were needed. I said that if you are convinced that we can halve that or whatever, you should at least be able to think for yourself and offer a few agencies you'd axe and why.

Thats just speculation without taking into account the additional economic activity from the tax cuts.

What do businesses do with the additional money they're allowed to keep? Invest in the business.
What do people do with do with additional money they're allowed to keep? Spend it.

That's literally what dynamic scoring is. It takes into account forecasted economic boosts. And most corporations used their tax cuts to buy back stock or pay down debt. They didn't invest in R&D, which stayed flat with pre-tax cut years.

Was Trump an overspender? Yep, he blindly signed every budget that was put infront of him with very few demands of the congress.

So Trump, who dominates the GOP and calls the shots, is now the naive and innocent president who got bullied by random members of Congress. What a fairy tale.

$35.85 trillion national debt, currently.

Best argument you could make is Trump was just as bad as Obama & Biden.

Both of whom had to extract the country from deep recessions with huge amounts of economic stimulus. That's when you should be increasing deficits, during hard times. Not during boom years, when the goal should be to reduce deficits. Trump utterly fucked that pooch. Once again, you keep just broadcasting how little you understand about economics and governance.

Rather than give explanations for all of them, could you state your case for why Clinton's second term was better than his first?

Balanced budget, some key insurance expansions. His second term was at worst about par with the first in performance.

How does a private citizen audit a government agency? Do you not understand what the term means?

 

[LostMyBlackBelt]

#LibsLoveToFlipFlop

LOL, as Trump puts illegal immigrant Musk in charge of everything, and has an illegal as a whore wife.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I didn't say 430 were needed. I said that if you are convinced that we can halve that or whatever, you should at least be able to think for yourself and offer a few agencies you'd axe and why.

Just like you I'm in favor of axing agencies.

The question is how many and why, and I trust DOGE will be transparent with their reasoning.

That's literally what dynamic scoring is. It takes into account forecasted economic boosts. And most corporations used their tax cuts to buy back stock or pay down debt. They didn't invest in R&D, which stayed flat with pre-tax cut years.

Except dynamic scoring isn't a crystal ball forcasting the future. Its often incorrect.
Stories of a few large corporations doing what you don't want them to do is not reflective of the entirety of businesses.

So Trump, who dominates the GOP and calls the shots, is now the naive and innocent president who got bullied by random members of Congress. What a fairy tale.

*Yawn*
Yup, thats such a good fairy tale you're putting me to sleep.

Both of whom had to extract the country from deep recessions with huge amounts of economic stimulus. That's when you should be increasing deficits, during hard times. Not during boom years, when the goal should be to reduce deficits. Trump utterly fucked that pooch. Once again, you keep just broadcasting how little you understand about economics and governance.

Excessive spending to make up for a recession may be an excuse for a year or two, but not for their entire presidencies.

Once again you just give every (D) all possible benefit of the doubt while giving none to any (R).

Balanced budget, some key insurance expansions. His second term was at worst about par with the first in performance.

So the president takes credit for what the congress forces him to do.

And thats not even correcting the record of the 'balanced budget' that Republicans like to proclaim as an accomplishment is a myth.

Look at the 'National Debt By Year' bar graph I posted earlier. The national debt grew during each year of the Clinton administration.

How does a private citizen audit a government agency? Do you not understand what the term means?

Do you think that is a relevant issue?
That Musk is somehow unqualified or unable to audit government agencies?
But if he somehow becomes a government employee that will magically make him a better auditor?

 

[avenue94]

Except dynamic scoring isn't a crystal ball forcasting the future. Its often incorrect.
Stories of a few large corporations doing what you don't want them to do is not reflective of the entirety of businesses.

Dynamic scoring tends to be biased upward and overestimate the economic benefits of tax cuts. And I see you now don't believe in economic research since I'm literally telling you what economists who studied the tax cuts concluded. But sure, you definitely know more than them.

Excessive spending to make up for a recession may be an excuse for a year or two, but not for their entire presidencies.

Once again you just give every (D) all possible benefit of the doubt while giving none to any (R).

Biden's increased spending was over a smaller time frame, with the trade off of a hotter economy and faster economy than Obama's recovery, where he made the poor decision of underestimating the economy. Not sure what benefit of the doubt you think I'm giving Biden and Obama here when I'm telling you quite clearly what their spending was for compared to Trump.

So the president takes credit for what the congress forces him to do.

No, passing budgets is a negotiation between president and Congress, which Clinton did, which Trump did. Have you never heard of the veto?

Look at the 'National Debt By Year' bar graph I posted earlier. The national debt grew during each year of the Clinton administration.

I'm embraced for you. Not knowing the difference between a deficit and debt is bad enough, but you also apparently don't understand how interest works. How do you have a bank account and not know what interest is.

Do you think that is a relevant issue?

I certainly think it's relevant to conducting an audit whether or not one has access to all the information required for an audit.

That Musk is somehow unqualified or unable to audit government agencies?
But if he somehow becomes a government employee that will magically make him a better auditor?

He's unqualified to be an auditor, period. He has no experience in auditing, or for that matter accounting. Do you think the Big 4 just hire random dumbasses off the street to conduct audits?

Can you explain to me what you think an auditor does? You clearly don't know.

 

[Tatra]

LOL, as Trump puts illegal immigrant Musk in charge of everything, and has an illegal as a whore wife.