Does Sambo always beat BJJ?

[kintana]

Today it is athlete vs athlete not style vs style.

For example:

Can any sambo fighter with 2 years Sambo training beat Buchecha in a grappling match?

Can any Sambo fighter who holds a master of sport beat Maia or BJ penn?

I think for both these answer it is a no. If you think Sambo always beats BJJ then a mediocre Sambo fighter can beat any BJJ fighter no matter their level.

It is athlete vs athlete but I think Khabib will be a UFC champion.

 

[Rod1]

Did i stepped into a portal to the 2000s? i remember being like OP back then..

 

[RichardN7]

You don't know much, then. The equivalent of "ippon" in Sambo requires that he land flat on his back and you remain standing.

Isn't it the same in judo?

 

[godofghosts]

That's like saying that an F-1 is a superior fighter aircraft to an F-22 because it came before it. Age matters not.

nice try but that's not the same thing...

what u wrote is like saying mormonism might be better than rabbinic judaism via modernity.

 

[Russky]

If we take two similar untrained guys and put one into sambo/judo clubs and another into bjj club I would expect that sambo/judo guy would make a better grappler overall. This is not sambo vs. bjj vs. judo which are all pretty much same to me. This is the way they train, accents they put in training, and quality of coaching.

In my experience most BJJ clubs do not practice standing fights. If they have to fight against sambist/judoka they most likely have to start from a bad position on the ground. This will negate their better groundfighting skills.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

The sample size is pretty small as not many Sambo guys have gone to MMA, but I'd say not. Guy Mezger lost to Arona and Lil Nog, Rustam Khabilov lost to Bendo via RNC. Aleks Emilianenko lost to Werdum, as did Fedor (you can't compare the records and then make excuses for losses). Sambo is a really good art for throwing people, and combat Sambo especially produces guys who are good at linking striking to clinch grappling and TDs, but BJJ guys still have an edge in position and subs on the mat. I'm really looking forward to RDA - Khabib 2 (assuming it happens) as RDA has improved a lot since the first fight and looks like an absolute killer these days.

But remember: at the the end of the day it's the athlete, not the style. The days of style vs. style are long gone. I don't think BJJ beats wrestling because Werdum choked Cain any more than I think wrestling beats boxing because Cain beat JDS. It's a question of who can execute their game plan successfully, and while styles do make fights that's personal style, not whatever you have a black belt or an Olympic medal or MMS in.

I must say well put old chap

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Can any sambo fighter with 2 years Sambo training beat Buchecha in a grappling match?

Can any Sambo fighter who holds a master of sport beat Maia or BJ penn?

Define grappling.
Then specify rule set.
Can Buchecha, Maia or BJ Penn beat mediocre sambo/ judo/ wrestling player in sambo/ judo/ wrestling?
Answer is no.

This thread is retarded.
I thought the majority of the people in F12 have learned something from the years, spent here and can recognize obvious troll attempts.

 

[PointyShinyBurn]

Isn't it the same in judo?

No, as you could have easily discovered by typing 'ippon' into YouTube. You don't even have to stay on top after the throw, much less refrain from following him down.

I thought the majority of the people in F12 have learned something from the years, spent here and can recognize obvious troll attempts.

F12's collective troll detection system couldn't spot an aircraft carrier parked on its radar dish e.g. TehGwarch's not particularly subtle work.

 

[Uchi Mata]

nice try but that's not the same thing...

what u wrote is like saying mormonism might be better than rabbinic judaism via modernity.

It is the same thing, because we're not talking about ideologies we're talking about the development of technical disciplines. In such a case, engineering is a very good metaphor for martial arts. Martial arts have progressively gotten better over time, especially in the last 100 years. Mostly because they've gotten reconnected to practical application, which was lost for most of the latter half of the 20th century.

 

[Human Bass]

Pure sport sambo doesn't have the concept of guard and chokes, so bjj wins easily. The only thing that Sambo may have a slightl advantage is leglocks, and nowdays most top level bjj guys know leglocks incredbly well.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Pure sport sambo doesn't have the concept of guard and chokes, so bjj wins easily. The only thing that Sambo may have a slightl advantage is leglocks, and nowdays most top level bjj guys know leglocks incredbly well.

Bjj bu now has the best leg lock game of all grappling arts, by far.

 

[Human Bass]

Bjj bu now has the best leg lock game of all grappling arts, by far.

I agree, not thanks of the IBJJF though. Because bjj has a huge focus on subs and spends a lot of time on the ground, it was able to overcome any prejudice and develop an amazing leglock game. Danaher be blessed.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I agree, not thanks of the IBJJF though. Because bjj has a huge focus on subs and spends a lot of time on the ground, it was able to overcome any prejudice and develop an amazing leglock game. Danaher be blessed.

Agree, also the strong focus on guard game from Bjj players make leg locks entries much diverse, these new wave of Bjj leg lockers imho is a whole other animal, Japanese catch wrestlers are very good at them and very creative, thing is they don't have the guard game to recover guard if the technique fails...

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Pure sport sambo doesn't have the concept of guard and chokes, so bjj wins easily. The only thing that Sambo may have a slightl advantage is leglocks, and nowdays most top level bjj guys know leglocks incredbly well.

Under what rule set?
TS clearly talks about MMA.
The only advantage BJJ could have against sambo is under BJJ rule set.
Good luck winning against a sambo guy in freestyle wrestling.
BJJ develops zero skills for any other grappling rule set, but its own.

 

[Human Bass]

Under what rule set?
TS clearly talks about MMA.
The only advantage BJJ could have against sambo is under BJJ rule set.
Good luck winning against a sambo guy in freestyle wrestling.
BJJ develops zero skills for any other grappling rule set, but its own.

Rulesets of full grappling ADCC style where pin isn't an automatic victory and also MMA. So the pure sambo guy has little to no experience passing guard and dealing with the triangle, that is more than enough for a good bjj guy. BJJ has the most realistic and complex positional hierarchy for fighting. Sambo, like Wrestling, prefers to get rear nake choked than to have the back on the floor.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Rulesets of full grappling ADCC style.

...which is basically BJJ

 

[Human Bass]

...which is basically BJJ

Except it is way more liberal toward leglocks, what should in theory help samboists. Of course that with pin=win, ground grapplling becomes way more limited. It's not BJJ fault that the other Sambo and Wrestling cant tell the big differences between guard, mount and sidecontrol. It's not BJJ fault that Sambo guys have a taboo with chokes.

 

[QingTian]

Rulesets of full grappling ADCC style where pin isn't an automatic victory and also MMA. So the pure sambo guy has little to no experience passing guard and dealing with the triangle, that is more than enough for a good bjj guy. BJJ has the most realistic and complex positional hierarchy for fighting. Sambo, like Wrestling, prefers to get rear nake choked than to have the back on the floor.

The vast majority of what you learn in BJJ is also useless in a real fight. What, who said that? Shocking!

The fact is that much of what you learn in an art is used to beat other skilled fighters in that art. Past blue belt level your return on investment slows down.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Except it is way more liberal toward leglocks, what should in theory help samboists. Of course that with pin=win, ground grapplling becomes way more limited. It's not BJJ fault that the other Sambo and Wrestling cant tell the big differences between guard, mount and sidecontrol. It's not BJJ fault that Sambo guys have a taboo with chokes.

So again, the only advantage BJJ has is within its own style.
Sambo guys can compete and win in judo, wrestling and vice versa.
BJJ guys can't go outside of their own style and instead, prefer challenging other styles to compete under BJJ rule set.
Let me give you an idea- I am organizing an event next month- a tournament, where 8 guys will compete in 3 different rule sets, winning points for their placement in the tournament.
Disciplines are BJJ, sambo and combat wrestling.
Winner is the player who got most points in all 3.
If I was to make it BJJ, freestyle wrestling, judo and sambo tournament, what do you reckon are the chances of a BJJ player to win?

 

[MC Paul Barman]

Sambo beats bjj... always, with no exception.