Do you think the best MMA fighter at HW is the most dangerous human alive? (At hand to hand combat)

[blaseblase]

You really think it's that unlikely there's some special ops dude who are absolute killers? MMA fighters train MMA, these guys train to kill and defend themselves and others in all kinds of situations.

Special Ops guys don't primarily train unarmed combat. They have far less experience than MMA fighters, who train fighting every day. They also have no competitive experience save for what they accomplish in the field. If you're a special Ops guy who has to use hand to hand combat in the field, something has gone very very wrong.

 

[blaseblase]

...

the title is whether the best MMA fighter is the best at H2H combat. Not this.

But I'm fine going on this tangent too.

Iron sharpens iron. we've seen plenty of times how fighters from weaker orgs come to the UFC and dominate. HOWEVER:

That's the UFCs model. they take those who show promise. That's the point of having smaller orgs.

But to say there is someone in a vague MMA org who can beat the current UFC HW champ? that's just ridiculous. We've seen dominations, but every time they're thrown to the wolves too fast they get beaten. Pavlovich is a great example. None of them are ready to face the top immediately. Some might have the potential but then again THAT'S THE UFCS MODEL. They only take you IF you show potential.

But potential and definite immediate strength are two different things.

Rather than some silly conspiracy or mental hoops you gotta jump through, maybe it's just that simple: that the top org that also pays the best (but still pays shit) attracts most of the best fighters, and once these fighters gain experience by fighting each other they get even better.

Not that it's relevant to the thread topic, but the PFL has a bunch of fighters who are potentially better than the current UFC champs. Guys like Nemkov, Usman, Mix, McKee, Pico. Ngannou obviously. Jiri is an example of someone who came into the UFC as a full product and beat the UFC champ without changing anything about his game. In general the UFC has the deepest division and the most "best fighters" but there are exceptions.

 

[Taric]

His life before he started training. You can't seriously think his brothers would beat him in a fight now?

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/video/jon-jones-brother-chandler-could-173651487.html
I'm not talking about ancient history... Jon Jones, last year, says he is nowhere near as strong as his brothers while they've been play fighting as grown adults. He considers the strength gap massive.

Again, there are no weight limits in real life... it's different when you can have a guy who is 60+ pounds larger than you, but equally as fast because he's a professional athlete, coming at you. The real world doesn't have weight restrictions. MMA does. It's different.

 

[PRESIDENT TRUMP]

I wouldn't fancy their chances if an equally sized, Navy Seal or SAS wanted the smoke, These fighters learn martial arts but our SF learn how to kill human beings in hand to hand combat and there's people walking earth right now who HAVE killed enemy with their hands in places like Fallujah etc

Lol. You're a fucking idiot

 

[Miokink026]

Not that it's relevant to the thread topic, but the PFL has a bunch of fighters who are potentially better than the current UFC champs. Guys like Nemkov, Usman, Mix, McKee, Pico. Ngannou obviously. Jiri is an example of someone who came into the UFC as a full product and beat the UFC champ without changing anything about his game. In general the UFC has the deepest division and the most "best fighters" but there are exceptions.

Good point on Ngannou. I'd fix my comment but it's already been up there too long. I'll just admit to that mistake here.

 

[NoSmilez]

There is probably a 300 lb guy out there who is really good at grabbing balls.

 

[StrikerKing]

I would say in a controlled environment like an MmA fight... probably. In a self defense, combat, street fight scenario.. lol, no way. Being effective in self defense is all about situational awareness and making the right choices. Think about this... just about any large athletic male has the ability to knock anyone out. Talking millions of people. If you take the total number of heavyweight wrestlers, heavyweight professional boxers, he'll heavyweight of any combat sport. Anyone one of those men could end a fight instantly. The unpredictable nature of anything goes naturally means that under anything under than a controlled environment, it's laughable to think that there's not anyone alive that could fuck up MMAs top heavyweight.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/video/jon-jones-brother-chandler-could-173651487.html
I'm not talking about ancient history... Jon Jones, last year, says he is nowhere near as strong as his brothers while they've been play fighting as grown adults. He considers the strength gap massive.

Again, there are no weight limits in real life... it's different when you can have a guy who is 60+ pounds larger than you, but equally as fast because he's a professional athlete, coming at you. The real world doesn't have weight restrictions. MMA does. It's different.

Play fighting is the key word there. He doesn't have to be as strong as them. It's not a strength test, in a fight to the death he would win easily.

 

[StrikerKing]

Looking at them both today, Moti might have lost the battle but won the war.

 

[StrikerKing]

I'm sorry but the acting is very bad. Unless that he wasn't taking himself seriously during that period? He looks like a caricature of himself lol.

Acting? GTFO

 

[Masturbin]

Jon Jones is like Superman, except without the weakness to green rocks of course…

We has a weakness to white powder.

 

[abject]

The ufc eliminates itself from this debate by having a hw limit. Plus, sherdogs goat is a ped cheat. We need a level playing field.

 

[tasteslikechicken]

I did not think so when Ngannou was champ, and it was proven he wasn't when he fought boxers. He didn't have any kind of kicking offense and was not good on the ground. However, I feel like Jon Jones could beat anyone in a no holds barred fight. No boxers want to come to the Octagon to prove how tough they are, so I have to figure they know they can't compete in a fight that involves more than punching.

Jones eye pokes are on point. Definitely optimised for "teh streets"

 

[rear naked ankle pick]

I was barely legal

Reported

 

[loisestrad]

Lol @ this thread and the navy seal, huge mountain men fantasies.

At least the fantasy of huge mountain men has eliminated the fantasy of lethal monks.

 

[Harlekin]

Pretty sure Jones who loves to break bones, ankles, joints, eyes and 12-6 ellbows knows more deadly stuff than any military guy. And he has trained with hundreds of them.

Military guys also train hand to hand combat 1-20% of their time, which means they aren't good. Or else they would do it for money.

9 pages of dumb bullshit here

 

[OmegaRugal]

I just don't think Ngannou is a very well rounded fighter. He may have developed into one eventually, but the way his talent is now, he would never beat Jones unless he landed a punch on Jones like he did on Overeem! A hail Mary punch. I admit, I am not overly impressed with Ngannou's skill set.

Or he manages to keep the fight standing like he has vs Cain, Stipe, Bladyes. And beats Jones standing as Jones has proven to struggle standing vs guys who have close enough reach and height to him.

Jones doesn't have great boxing or head movement. His defense is mostly great due to his mastery of his reach/height advantage which he doesn't have vs Francis.

Francis can outstrike a striker like Jones no problem.

Francis has proven he has high level takedown defense as well.

If needed vs a superior striker like Gane ... Francis showed he can take people down. He took down Stipe as well btw.

You are definitely underrating Francis overall MMA skills.

 

[USA!USA!]

lol the people voting no watch too many stallone/schwarzenegger movies

 

[GiganticMeat]

Acting? GTFO

Dude, the takes today... First some guy posts his ancient (and might I add very dated) phd dissertation to "prove" Okami was only an above-average sized MW, when we all know he was hyuge... Now somebody thinks that isn't real fight footage? LOL. Like look at Chuck. He's putting his all into every blow.

Frank, Jon etc are all lucky Chuck is retired now... Even at 50 he would've taken them, UFC rules and all. Like he was almost as strong as Bruce Lee. Cmon now fellas

 

[STRAWBOSS]

ahh, this thread title is a nice flashback to the early 2000s

even early 90s? I was thinking the original UFC with "baddest man on the planet".