International Do you support toppling the Iranian Regime?

[Islam Imamate]

So close, yet so far away.

Me: "US forcing regime change in Iraq led to the formation of ISIS"

You: "removing Sadam didn't create ISIS.... dismantling Sadam's government created ISIS"

A regime isn't just the guy at the top, it's the government. The whole thing, or at least the vast majority of the leadership structure.

He's making a valid point though. From the beginning the plan was regime change, that Saddam and his top associates would be removed. But initially it was thought that most of the middle officers and officials of the military and Ba'ath party as well as the rank and file soldiers and party members were not to be disbanded for the sake of keeping the country in tact. In fact the US military was communicating with their Iraqi counterparts so that soldiers would not abandon their posts and there could be an orderly transition.

Then Paul Bremer lands in Iraq and delivers the orders to disband the entire Iraqi army and Ba'ath party. Bremer himself says he didn't come up with the order and when asked if it came from the Secratary of Defense he said that no, it came from above SoD's pay grade even which doesn't leave a lot of suspects left. However Bush does not remember giving this order and in fact thought the plan to keep the military and Ba'ath party in tact. There were also no anonymous leaks by high level officials to clarify this point.

Given all that its thought that Dick Cheney is where those orders came from; he's ranked above the Secretary of Defense, his office was known for preventing leaks, and he had an interest in disbanding the party as he had designs on building a new one from the ground up with a group of Iraqi dissidents that were beholden to him. Those dissidents ended up deserting the project entirely as soon as they landed in Iraq so the country was left with no military and no obvious plan to build one.

 

[Hog-train]

I know. It was Communist sympathizers who formed the party that backed his decision to renege on a contract the Iranian's had signed nearly nine years before it expired. The part about killing the sitting PM to achieve their goals was part of the "joke", too. The British proved again and again they were conciliatory to renegotiations of revenue sharing. You understand that "nationalizing" the Iranian oil industry meant he just said, "Hey, all these refineries and excavation equipment...they're ours."

It's exactly what Venezuela did.

LMAO@ actually defending BP oil company as not greedy and some innocent that got ripped off.

Iran reneged on the contract because it was obscenely one sided for decades.

The Anglo-Persian Oil Company (BP) paid a paltry 16% royalty and they kept all the rest with exclusive rights to all oil in the entire country. Not only that, they cheated on the calculation by cooking the books, so that 16% became even smaller.

For reference in 1920, BP made millions while Iran got 47,000.

Oil workers at the Abadan refinery – whose labor was largely responsible for Britain's prosperity – were paid 50 cents a day with no benefits. They lived in a shantytown called Kaghazabad (Persian for "Paper City") with no running water or electricity, surrounded by mud, stagnant water, and biting flies.

In 1919 the British imposed the Anglo-Persian Accord giving them control of Iran's army, treasury, transport and communications – making Iran a virtual British colony.

 

[Cajun]

Toppling hasn't worked out well lately for Libya Syria Iraq or Afghanistan. While I agree it's a horriffic regime, there's no good solution for this and you may make it worse by toppling an 86 year old and spinning the country in the chaos

 

[Xanzito]

Iran is a pretty fucked up case.
If they try regime change and a more radical wing takes over a nuclear power, everyone is fucked.
But then, if the current radical fuckers weaponize what they have, everyone is fucked.
So Iran is pretty much the devil's asshole whatever happens.

 

[shunyata]

LMAO@ actually defending BP oil company as some innocent that got ripped off.

Iran reneged on the contract because it was obscenely one sided for decades.

The Anglo-Persian Oil Company (BP) paid a paltry 16% royalty and they kept all the rest with exclusive rights to all oil in the entire country. Not only that, they cheated on the calculation by cooking the books, so that 16% became even smaller.

For reference in 1920, BP made millions while Iran got 47,000.

Oil workers at the Abadan refinery – whose labor was largely responsible for Britain's prosperity – were paid 50 cents a day with no benefits. They lived in a shantytown called Kaghazabad (Persian for "Paper City") with no running water or electricity, surrounded by mud, stagnant water, and biting flies.

In 1919 the British imposed the Anglo-Persian Accord giving them control of Iran's army, treasury, transport and communications – making Iran a virtual British colony.

Between Iran and Palestine, I'm starting to think the British empire was massively involved in helping set the stage for the shitshow that has been middle east politics in the last 100 years.

 

[Hog-train]

Between Iran and Palestine, I'm starting to think the British empire was massively involved in helping set the stage for the shitshow that has been middle east politics in the last 100 years.

British colonialism is a huge part of why we have so many fucked up situations in the modern day - India becomes nuclear armed Pakistan, Bangladesh and India, Africa being a shitshow, etc.

 

[avenue94]

LMAO@ actually defending BP oil company as not greedy and some innocent that got ripped off.

Iran reneged on the contract because it was obscenely one sided for decades.

The Anglo-Persian Oil Company (BP) paid a paltry 16% royalty and they kept all the rest with exclusive rights to all oil in the entire country. Not only that, they cheated on the calculation by cooking the books, so that 16% became even smaller.

For reference in 1920, BP made millions while Iran got 47,000.

Oil workers at the Abadan refinery – whose labor was largely responsible for Britain's prosperity – were paid 50 cents a day with no benefits. They lived in a shantytown called Kaghazabad (Persian for "Paper City") with no running water or electricity, surrounded by mud, stagnant water, and biting flies.

In 1919 the British imposed the Anglo-Persian Accord giving them control of Iran's army, treasury, transport and communications – making Iran a virtual British colony.

Isn't it so strange that Mick believes JCPOA was a horrible deal and the US did the right thing by voiding it, but nah, these colonial deals were just an needed to be honored by Iran.

 

[Madmick]

LMAO@ actually defending BP oil company as not greedy and some innocent that got ripped off.

Both things can be true.

The fact you acknowledge Iran violated the contract, one they willfully entered, and renegotiated many times, but still find fault entirely with the British, is typical of the pro-Iranian mindset.

 

[AWilder]

We have the world's greatest deal maker, why would we go to war?

 

[Hog-train]

Both things can be true.

The fact you acknowledge Iran violated the contract, one they willfully entered, and renegotiated many times, but still find fault entirely with the British, is typical of the pro-Iranian mindset.

Iran tried (and failed) to renegotiate many times and then got sabotaged by the British. The UK was completely exploiting the country and all the workers the entire time. And used force to stamp out any resistance.

The British reversed many democratic reforms in 1905. Then helped depose the leadership in 1925. And then they overthrew the Shah AGAIN in 1941 and installed his 21 year old son.

In 1946, Abadan refinery arose in an unprecedented strike, demanding better housing, healthcare, and AIOC's compliance with Iran's labor laws. Two British warships showed up off shore to stamp down the strike.

Finally in 1951, the British and their puppet shah lost control of Iranian politics the the Iranians elected Mohammad Mossadegh. Then the US and UK engineered a CIA coup to depose Mossadegh.

Face it - the UK was exploiting the shit out of Iran and their workers for decades.

 

[plataoplombo]

Yeah, but that's something they should do themselves. They have a rich history and very smart people to be wasting it with all that extremists BS.

 

[RemyR]

Not really because i have no faith in the aftermath of the topple of their government. Historically speaking that winds up being a mess for us

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

I think if Israel want to pick fights they should deal with the consequences on their own. We've proven over and over that there is nothing good comes from us getting involved in that part of the world.

 

[HomeCheese]

Of course not. We already did that in the 50's and look where we are and now they want to do it again? WTF?

Did topping Iraq work or fucking around in Afghanistan?

When are we allowed to learn our lesson?

 

[MTT]

Success involves containing Iran with technology and no U.S. boots on the ground. If Iran responds, targeting its leadership would be prudent. It’s a gutsy move by Trump. A 10/10 landing is impossible. If only he showed the same resolve against other habitual line steppers in the multipolar world order, like Russia.

 

[avenue94]

I think if Israel want to pick fights they should deal with the consequences on their own. We've proven over and over that there is nothing good comes from us getting involved in that part of the world.

It's hilarious that for all the talk of moral hazards that come with subsidizing a private company, no one wants to talk about the moral hazards of subsidizing Israel.

They'd probably do most of the stuff they still do, but they'd be a hell of a lot poorer and more isolated.

 

[LostMyBlackBelt]

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Between Iran and Palestine, I'm starting to think the British empire was massively involved in helping set the stage for the shitshow that has been middle east politics in the last 100 years.

As a Brit I'll hold my hand up and say we're probably 90% responsible.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Between Iran and Palestine, I'm starting to think the British empire was massively involved in helping set the stage for the shitshow that has been middle east politics in the last 100 years.

Well, we don't like to brag, but...

 

[jk7707]

No. And if you do. You've learned nothing from the diaster in Iraq.