Do you support Roe Vs. Wade?

lilelvis said:
I posted my on on the thread topic, #99...
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PainIsLIfe said:
It's been a couple years since I looked at the numbers, but last I checked most women that get abortions are middle class, educated, and have had multiple abortions.
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You didn't check shit and just make up shit.

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I think Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey were wrongly decided cases. In these cases, a majority of the Justices felt that the abortion procedure was so important that they decided to call it a "fundamental right." The ruling was grounded in something known as "substantive due process" – a concept which has been widely criticized by legal scholars on both sides of the political spectrum, depending on the "rights" at issue. In addition to abortion, the SCOTUS has "discovered" a number of unenumerated fundamental rights, including right to travel, right to raise one's children, and a right to privacy. If all of these are fundamental rights, why would we ever enact Constitutional amendments to protect them? The same can be said of the enumerated rights. The SCOTUS has ruled that freedom of speech is a fundamental right, so why enact the First Amendment? Why enact any amendments to protect "fundamental rights" if the Court can do so on its own? I believe most of the Conservative judges agree with me. Roe v. Wade in particular, and its progeny, will most likely be overturned, or least severely limited, if the issue makes its way up.

That said, I think abortion should be legal (Conservatives hear me out). It should not be a "right" per se, but it should be allowed under certain conditions. We should pass a Constitutional amendment which specifies the limited circumstances where abortion can be performed – something that makes an appropriate balance between the rights of the parents and the rights on the unborn, all in light of the realities of raising children in this society. Obviously, rape is a circumstance where abortion should be allowed, as long as there is reliable proof that a rape actually occurred (e.g., at least a police report). Although inability to provide may justify abortion, mere inconvenience of the parents is not enough. Moreover, if the father objects, then the pregnancy may not be terminated. That said, at some point we do have to think about keeping the population stable, and we have to think about who is going to take care of these kids. We shouldn't be promoting single motherhood. We shouldn't be promoting a foster care industry. At the end of the day, our most productive citizens should be encouraged to get married and raise children, and loser deadbeat lowlifes should not be reproducing. I see nothing wrong with an Amendment that recognizes that reality.

I realize alot of Conservatives would disagree with me on this subject, and that's okay. But if you want to limit abortion in a reasonable way, and end the debate conclusively, the best way to do it is with a Constitutional amendment (not a statute, which can be repealed or invalidated by an activist Court). Pass it after the SCOTUS overturns Roe and Casey, that way there will be popular support for (Liberals will prefer it to an outright ban).
 
I'm a libertarian, generally very conservative who would probably be considered far-right by some, but my mom who passed at the end of 2015 at 83 told me some crazy stories from her youth and they were BAD. A couple girls she knew died. Talked to me about it from when I was in my teens. That was a different time with a terrible stigma especially for religious families, they would turn them out in the streets. Also, no 16 year-old girl who made a mistake should have to show up at a mechanic's garage at 9 or 10 on a Friday or Saturday night for her "procedure".

She was a devout Catholic, but felt priests should be allowed to marry and abortion should be available. And I mean DEVOUT aside from those two issues. Oh, and that birth control was OK if you could not afford more children and had 4 or 5 already.

Anyway, I support access to (you may have to drive to a bordering state) safe, legal abortion personally---but I consider it a state-by-state decision and do not feel like it is a constitutional right.

So I think Roe v Wade was wrong, but I don't care if it stands or becomes a state issue, either way it's not going to be banned nationally.

Everyone needs to calm down as regards this issue, IMO.
 
Lol. So you want women to die as well as their fetuses? How does changing this law help anyone?
 
This is just used to fire up the republican base, they won’t repeal anything
 
Prefect said:
You didn't check shit and just make up shit.

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Any time you try to pass a law that may impact a "quasi-suspect" class it is met with intermediate scrutiny. Reversing Roe v. Wade would be a legal travesty.
 
Prefect said:
You didn't check shit and just make up shit.

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I don't just make shit up:

In the first ten years of our College Outreach Program, abortions among college-educated women declined by a stunning 30%. Our job is far from over. The reality is that 59% of women who have abortions are college-educated. We need to repeat our success by reaching the next class of students now!

http://www.feministsforlife.org/59-of-women-who-have-abortions-are-college-educated/




Almost half of all the women who abort each year have had prior abortions, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Guttmacher Institute. This percentage hasn’t budged much for the last 20 years—and those repeat abortions are a huge challenge for the pro-life movement.

https://world.wng.org/2018/01/second_time_around



About half of all U.S. women having an abortion have had one previously. This fact—not new, but dramatically underscored in a recent report from the Guttmacher Institute on the characteristics of women having repeat abortions—

https://www.guttmacher.org/gpr/2007...cy-repeated-and-misguided-government-policies


I'll have to dig for the article on income, but how in the world are you trying to count the 26% of women that make 100-199% of the poverty level? 30k isn't huge, but in 2014 that fell into middle income ($24,000 and $73,000)




And I've been owning the abortion debates with actual stats for years in the WR.
 
PainIsLIfe said:
I don't just make shit up:

In the first ten years of our College Outreach Program, abortions among college-educated women declined by a stunning 30%. Our job is far from over. The reality is that 59% of women who have abortions are college-educated. We need to repeat our success by reaching the next class of students now!

http://www.feministsforlife.org/59-of-women-who-have-abortions-are-college-educated/




Almost half of all the women who abort each year have had prior abortions, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Guttmacher Institute. This percentage hasn’t budged much for the last 20 years—and those repeat abortions are a huge challenge for the pro-life movement.

https://world.wng.org/2018/01/second_time_around



About half of all U.S. women having an abortion have had one previously. This fact—not new, but dramatically underscored in a recent report from the Guttmacher Institute on the characteristics of women having repeat abortions—

https://www.guttmacher.org/gpr/2007...cy-repeated-and-misguided-government-policies


I'll have to dig for the article on income, but how in the world are you trying to count the 26% of women that make 100-199% of the poverty level? 30k isn't huge, but in 2014 that fell into middle income ($24,000 and $73,000)




And I've been owning the abortion debates with actual stats for years in the WR.
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1. Education does not equate wealth. Anyone with student loans and majored in something not in demand knows this.

2. It is a joke to reference something from feministforlife.org. Really, you are referencing a feminist website and a right wing website? You are all over the map on junk references.

3. Of course, people who have had abortions before will be more likely to have a second. The article makes no references to economic statuses of the women.

World.wng.org is a joke right wing website. It has articles like "how single party system in California led to draconian ruling against conversion therapy." Conversion therapy? Really.

4. My graph is from guttmacher.org just like what you referenced. Your own linked article further supports my claim.

"The associations with race and ethnicity, as well as poverty, are particularly striking among women having repeat unintended births: Almost half of black women and about 40% of poor and low-income women have had at least one unintended birth."

"Certain groups are overrepresented among women having abortions: those who are young, poor or near-poor, black, Hispanic or unmarried, and those who already have had one child."

It is like you think googling some articles means you have a good argument. Christ, you didn't even read what you linked to support your argument. Why don't you just not post until you can figure out your arguement?
 
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Prefect said:
1. Education does not equate wealth. Anyone with student loans and majored in something not in demand knows this.

2. It is a joke to reference something from feministforlife.org. Really, you are referencing a feminist website and a right wing website? You are all over the map on junk references.

3. Of course, people who have had abortions before will be more likely to have a second. The article makes no references to economic statuses of the women.

World.wng.org is a joke right wing website. It has articles like "how single party system in California led to draconian ruling against conversion therapy." Conversion therapy? Really.

4. My graph is from guttmacher.org just like what you referenced. Your own linked article further supports my claim.

"The associations with race and ethnicity, as well as poverty, are particularly striking among women having repeat unintended births: Almost half of black women and about 40% of poor and low-income women have had at least one unintended birth."

"Certain groups are overrepresented among women having abortions: those who are young, poor or near-poor, black, Hispanic or unmarried, and those who already have had one child."

It is like you think googling some articles means you have a good argument. Christ, you didn't even read what you linked to support your argument. Why don't you just not post until you can figure out your arguement?
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I linked what was relevant to what I'd stated from a short 2 min google search while trying to find something that I'd read a few years ago.

You linked a graph from 2014 that claims someone making up to 30k is poor when 1) in 2014 24k was middle income for a single person and 2) 30k in SF or NY would be shit, but in most of the country that would have been pretty decent money.

Why don't you find something that disputes what I actually said before you claim I simply made shit up?
It's been a couple years since I looked at the numbers, but last I checked most women that get abortions are middle class, educated, and have had multiple abortions.​
 
PainIsLIfe said:
I linked what was relevant to what I'd stated from a short 2 min google search while trying to find something that I'd read a few years ago.

You linked a graph from 2014 that claims someone making up to 30k is poor when 1) in 2014 24k was middle income for a single person and 2) 30k in SF or NY would be shit, but in most of the country that would have been pretty decent money.

Why don't you find something that disputes what I actually said before you claim I simply made shit up?
It's been a couple years since I looked at the numbers, but last I checked most women that get abortions are middle class, educated, and have had multiple abortions.​
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49% of women getting abortions were making $11,670 or less. Another 26% were making between 11k and 22k. That is shit pay you can't raise a kid on without assistance. I would like to see you raise a kid on 11k dumbass. 22k would be pretty hard as well. And do it with having to pay a daycare while you are at work. You have no clue.

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You would need two people working and making over 20k each just to slide in middle class with a kid, 3 person household.

Do you have any other feministforlife.org articles that you want to use for grand arguements ? I always need a laugh.

My apologies if you really are a radical male feminist.
 
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MayhemMonkey said:
and abortion isnt something a male gets to decide about, its for women and women only

rip is just hypocritical and wants to take rights away from others and protect his own
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Well only people that got shot by guns or people that shot others with guns can only talk about gun laws and have opinions about guns and since in every thread you talk about guns please follow cultural appropriation rules and talk no more about guns.
 
ShadowRun said:
Well only people that got shot by guns or people that shot others with guns can only talk about gun laws and have opinions about guns and since in every thread you talk about guns please follow cultural appropriation rules and talk no more about guns.
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did I say he cant talk about them? But when he is happy to take away the rights of others but wont give up his own then it shows he is a total hypocrite.

sorry if that upsets you bumboy ;)
 
Prefect said:
2014-15-FPL-Guidelines.png


49% of women getting abortions were making $11,670 or less. Another 26% were making between 11k and 22k. That is shit pay you can't raise a kid on without assistance. I would like to see you raise a kid on 11k dumbass. 22k would be pretty hard as well. And do it with having to pay a daycare while you are at work. You have no clue.

images


You would need two people working and making over 20k each just to slide in middle class with a kid, 3 person household.

Do you have any other feministforlife.org articles that you want to use for grand arguements ? I always need a laugh.

My apologies if you really are a radical male feminist.
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"Middle-income" households have an annual income between 66 percent and 200 percent of the median U.S. household income, according to the Pew Research Center. As of 2014, that falls between $24,000 and $73,000 for one person and $42,000 and $126,000 for a family of three.

www.npr.org/2016/07/07/484941939/a-portrait-of-americas-middle-class-by-the-numbers


Women with kids get assistance - food stamps (what ever they call it now), housing assistance, sometimes free daycare, heating assistance, etc.
 
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