Do you rank Leon over Woodley as the 3rd best WW of all time. Behind 1)Usman 2) GSP

[Streeter]

Wven but neither moved any needles . HSP is 1 and it's not close . Usman gets mentioned due to recency bias it's not close for 1.

 

[Mind Mine]

There’s always going to be a next guy. And a next guy. And a next guy. No one can fight forever, and while I agree it is disappointing we never got to see some of these matchups, athletes get to dictate the terms of their own retirement.

The USADA stuff is just nonsense but I doubt I’ll convince you of that. He only had one fight under USADA which was years after his retirement, so if you mean that one fight where he moved up a weight class and hadn’t fought in 3 years he looked weaker and slower (and still won)…ok? Or maybe you mean that as USADA approached he got weaker and slower? But that doesn’t mean anything at all lol. It isn’t like they rolled out testing slowly, he just wasn’t around for it period so really what you’re saying is that he aged lmao.

Here’s how it works kid. If you want to use the steroid argument, you can use it with Jones and Silva. They actually tested positive. I don’t personally exclude people from conversations of greatness based on that, but if you want to, that’s totally fine. If you think everyone was on juice so it doesn’t matter who tested, that’s fine too. But if that’s the case then you can’t really exclude anyone for it. And you certainly can’t exclude people who never popped just on that basis alone.

I saw here’s how it worked kid after your long diatribe jerking a man off about beating a one eyed fighter and here’s how it works BOY. You have a blessed day and Merry Christmas

 

[NoSmilez]

It depends how he ends his career. I don't think he is done as a contender.

 

[Mind Mine]

You do realize that the reason the fighters are better today is because they have built on the foundation created by the previous generation of MMA fighters?

That simply does not mean you having a great run in an error 10 years prior where none of your opponents if in their prime today would be relevant makes you the greatest fighter. Just a great nostalgic run. GSP had a great run but we can all go back and look at who he did vs who and ascertain the game changed and prime GSP would not have the sane chance today

 

[Mind Mine]

This entire argument would make sense if Khabib hadn’t been so dominant having virtually the same strengths and broad strokes in his game as Hughes…in modern era. These two have incredibly similar games.

Also, and this is something that sooo many people forget, GSP’s entire style was built around figuring out a way to beat Matt Hughes. Circle back to the early 2000s, and the best fighters at WW, whether they were strikers, sub artists, or even wrestlers, couldn’t avoid Hughes’ takedowns. As influential as GSP has been in the sport of MMA and in putting well-roundedness and versatility at the forefront of MMA training, let’s never forget that this all stems from Matt Hughes, and the fact that he was such a dominant wrestler, and an iconic champion at WW. In comparison, I’m sorry but guys like Leon and Woodley and the mark that they respectively left in the sport is nowhere near the mark that Hughes left, whether that be through his own accomplishments as a competitor, or through the influence that he’s had on an entire generation of welterweights.

Pioneer must be respected because he brought a dimension to the game that the game wasn’t prepared for and the GAME EVOLVED AROUND HUGHES. You know who else? Rousey. She simply gets measured fairly in mma discussion as a pioneer who exploited the game in a rudimentary stage. Notice how people put others on unfair pedestals for THE EXACT SAME THING

 

[MDoza]

Hahahahahahah..

Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahah

Leon isn’t even top 10

 

[ticho123]

Who do you rank as the 3rd best between Leon and Woodley.

 

[FriskyRandy]

In UFC or MMA? Technically Sakuraba is a welterweight. So Matt Hughes is the 3rd best welterweight. After GSP and Saku.

Huh? He's a legit, and has some amazing wins against heavier opponents.. but you can't ignore the losses. Saku isn't anywhere near matt Hughes, I wouldn't even have Saku top 5.

 

[Pilo]

Pioneer must be respected because he brought a dimension to the game that the game wasn’t prepared for and the GAME EVOLVED AROUND HUGHES. You know who else? Rousey. She simply gets measured fairly in mma discussion as a pioneer who exploited the game in a rudimentary stage. Notice how people put others on unfair pedestals for THE EXACT SAME THING

I mean, I don’t think anyone would disagree that Rousey is an all time top 3 women’s bantamweight. But to be fair, it does reflect how shallow that division was (and arguably still is today).

Welterweight, when Hughes was champ and when GSP was champ, was the most stacked division in the UFC, with 205 being a close second.

That’s a major difference right there.

Difference number two, do you see dominant judokas having much success at women’s bantamweight today?

Nope.

But anyhow, this thread is about welterweights.

 

[Pilo]

You do realize that the reason the fighters are better today is because they have built on the foundation created by the previous generation of MMA fighters?

Exactly… moreover, Mind Mine’s whole argument highly revolves around hypotheticals…”Matt Hughes would get mauled by today’s fighters”…who knows? It’s easy to be biased against an old legend whom we’ve seen compete past his prime, and compare it with guys that are still in their prime or that were until very recently.

In a discussion where you attempt to define the best guys of all time in a specific weight class, I’d rather consider accomplishments and the mark left than assume victors in hypothetical matchups between guys from different eras.

 

[markys00]

Dang good troll thread judging by the many responses.

But sherdoggers are incredibly dumb

 

[HavokHarmon]

I saw here’s how it worked kid after your long diatribe jerking a man off about beating a one eyed fighter and here’s how it works BOY. You have a blessed day and Merry Christmas

Pretty funny that you have to assume I’m a super fan of a fighter for pointing out all the places you went wrong. For the record I don’t consider GSP the goat, but I understand that you need to think I’m just glazing over him in order to avoid admitting that you’re wrong.

But you too bud, gonna be a good one this year. Haven’t had a day off in weeks, I’m not gonna know what to do with myself having a whole week off. Merry Christmas!

 

[MPD-Psycho]

1. GSP
2. Hughes
3. TBD

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

People ranking Usman second best of all time for beat Masvidal and Colby

 

[Mind Mine]

I mean, I don’t think anyone would disagree that Rousey is an all time top 3 women’s bantamweight. But to be fair, it does reflect how shallow that division was (and arguably still is today).

Welterweight, when Hughes was champ and when GSP was champ, was the most stacked division in the UFC, with 205 being a close second.

That’s a major difference right there.

Difference number two, do you see dominant judokas having much success at women’s bantamweight today?

Nope.

But anyhow, this thread is about welterweights.

I will say that in all fairness if you are a person that ranks Ronda the number 2 greatest female you likely rank Hughes 2. It’s a fair perspective. Also a fair perspective when reviewing old tape, man the game evolved a Ronda couldn’t do shit with the current skill level. Both perspectives must coexist imo before legends run wild lol

 

[VAfan]

can't believe this stupid usman thread is still going. it should just be twenty pages of TS getting called out for the ')1 usman' thing.

 

[Bouboumaster]

The first paragraph is desperation. I think a man would have to be insane to believe the vast majority to include GSP are all natty. MAYBE Mighty and probably Benson are about the only somewhat dominant champs I kinda believe may be clean. That’s about it. Hendricks beat his ass and Ping was a cyclops. The Condit was the only oone for me

Even if GSP was on the sauce, you'd have to give him credit for:
1- Not being caught, unlike retards like Jon Jones and Anderson Silva
2- Mastermind USADA arrival in the UFC to Cover Up His own ass
Either GSP is Natty or he's a 4th D chessmaster, your call
Either way that put's him above everyone else

Hendricks fight was solid, whatever you think the result should be, and you should rewatch the Fitch fight; it's GSP's masterpiece IMO
He 50-43 him lol

 

[Bouboumaster]

Accusing people of taking steroids that never tested positive is a slippery slope. People can make the same argument against GSP, to explain why he had such crazy musculature and an insane physique, while being able to maintain five round cardio.

At 40+ today he's still able to do it

 

[Mind Mine]

Even if GSP was on the sauce, you'd have to give him credit for:
1- Not being caught, unlike retards like Jon Jones and Anderson Silva
2- Mastermind USADA arrival in the UFC to Cover Up His own ass
Either GSP is Natty or he's a 4th D chessmaster, your call
Either way that put's him above everyone else

Hendricks fight was solid, whatever you think the result should be, and you should rewatch the Fitch fight; it's GSP's masterpiece IMO
He 50-43 him lol

If that’s how you view the situation. Personally I think you have a one dimensional view. I would respect him more if he stuck around got busted and kept fighting til today win or lose popping or not. I don’t give a fuck about that. I call it gamesmanship.

 

[volcom5]

NO.

George Rush St Pierre


Matt Hughes

Kamaru Usman

After this it doesnt really matter.

Jake Shields even without getting the UFC belt imo is ranked highter than Edwards due to his body of work at WW.

You newer fans are getting out hand with crowninh all time fightere in weight classes when their body of work in said weight classes is lacking, he has 3 career LW's on his resume prior to beating Usman. Leon is still young, he's git a solid 3-4yrs left. But he needs a body of work. No constant rematches.