Do you have to deal with gaslighting in your life?

[mixmastermo]

I've had two very strong examples of being gaslit in recent years. here's the official definition:

psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to question the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's emotional or mental stability, and a dependency on the perpetrator

Definition of GASLIGHTING

psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to question the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

First example- my marriage and divorce. Ex wife did this repeatedly in the last year we were together, essentially distorting events that happened between us and by trying to make me doubt everything I said. It got to the point where we'd have a discussion about an observation, she'd share her thoughts on the subject, I'd share mine, saying something like "X and Y, so Z" but she'd immediately respond with "oh it's not that, it's Z because Y and X".

We were literally saying the same thing, but she'd want me to believe I was wrong somehow. She initiated the separation but I didn't push back, as I had accepted the relationship wasn't working anymore.

Second, most recent example- my boss.

A few months back he had asked in a group meeting if we had any experts in AI. I raised my hand, and shared that I'd never call myself an expert but I did study it in school and I know the fundamentals of how it works and what it does. He cut the convo short and said we'd discuss later. In a few days in a one on one meeting, he didn't merely challenge me on what I was saying, he flat out told me that I didn't know anything about AI and he didn't appreciate that I shared that I had knowledge of the subject in a group setting. He wasn't just questioning my credentials, he was telling me what I knew and what I didn't know.

I walked out of the room. I wasn't going to tolerate that. What I ended up doing was sharing some links in some specific coursework I took and the very specific projects I worked on and the applications I used it for in the real world. He eventually had an "oh shit" moment and realized he messed up and apologized for the way he confronted me on the matter.

Another issue I have been having is with my team. When I share my thoughts about two specific people on my team, he seems to think his opinion on the subject is somehow more valid.

One guy, A, came to the team with minimal experience, but he is responsible and he has learned quite a bit. He's a good employee and I am glad to have him on my team, but I also recognize he lacks confidence due to his inexperience. I've been slowly teaching him more and giving him responsibilities because I do not want to overload him. He has already gotten promoted and given very good raises over the past 2 years, he just needs to be given space to develop over time.

The other guy, L is much older and is a bit of a space cadet. He technically has more experience, but he's very disorganized, impulsive, and forgetful. I think L needs more training and support- and it isn't something he's going to learn and adapt to by going to a 3 day seminar. I shared my concerns with L with my boss, and my boss is somehow convinced that I could solve the problem by giving some of L's responsibilities to A.

This is where the gaslighting comes in: Instead of taking me at my word on L's deficiencies, he started to pick apart some of the very basic examples I brought up of L making mistakes or forgetting to complete his tasks. Instead of listening to my concerns about overloading A, and even after giving some very specific examples as to how A is a great guy but lacks confidence, boss says "well that's just something you need to manage"

After some time he ultimately realized that L may not in fact be a good fit and he may need some additional support and training. I then think to myself, then why'd you have to make me doubt my own reality? Why were you so convinced that you had the answer when I'm the one who has to deal with L's incompetence and A's lack of confidence on a daily basis?


In both cases, like with my ex and with my boss, I feel like it's some form of insecurity manifesting. I suppose I should be glad I recognize this behavior and know it's not appropriate. It is justification for me to make a decision to move on. It just sucks to know I've wasted time and energy investing into a relationship and my career to have to look to start over again, because some people wanted to make me doubt reality.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I don‘t know I really understand what gaslighting is. I feel like it‘s a word I never heard until a year ago and now everyone is using it.

But if manipulative and bullying behavior intended to make someone take a blame unfairly is covered by the definition, then yes I see that shit a lot and react poorly to it.

It‘s typically an unfair person with a dishonest intent who instigates shit and then acts like a victim when they are being called out on it.

Or an incompetent person who fucks up at work and try to manipulate another for taking the blame. When that doesn‘t work and shit escalates, the incompetent person accuses of „finger-pointing“.

Yes I do see that shit a lot and see right through it. I have no problem confronting people like that and to burn bridges, because people who do that typically have negative value. However, the frustrating part is that this kind of stuff works on simple people so you have to be smart about it.

 

[mixmastermo]

I don‘t know I really understand what gaslighting is. I feel like it‘s a word I never heard until a year ago and now everyone is using it.

But if manipulative and bullying behavior intended to make someone take a blame unfairly is covered by the definition, then yes I see that shit a lot and react poorly to it.

It‘s typically an unfair person with a dishonest intent who instigates shit and then acts like a victim when they are being called out on it.

Or an incompetent person who fucks up at work and try to manipulate another for taking the blame. When that doesn‘t work and shit escalates, the incompetent person accuses of „finger-pointing“.

Yes I do see that shit a lot and see right through it. I have no problem confronting people like that and to burn bridges, because people who do that typically have negative value. However, the frustrating part is that this kind of stuff works on simple people so you have to be smart about it.

Yes, gaslighting can be used to make others feel like they are responsible for the perpetrator's mistakes/incompetence. From what you have described you have definitely seen it.

 

[Bobby00]

This only works if you let them. You call them on their shit and they will shrink to Joe Rogans size every time.

 

[Slobodan]

I don‘t know I really understand what gaslighting is. I feel like it‘s a word I never heard until a year ago and now everyone is using it.

The act has been around since forever, but as usual people take therapy/psychological terms and then it gets incorrectly used. You have people that use the term when someone just disagrees with them for example.

In your examples and the OP, that can fall under gaslighting.

 

[William Huggins]

People's memories aren't very accurate, especially over time and people's feelings towards people can change their memory of past events, it's pretty well researched.......

As for people that actually gaslight, it's usually to cover up for something their up too......

 

[tgv976]

Gaslighter seems to be the new word for a cunt. They've always existed. Male and female.

All I can say workwise is to budget and build up a surplus of money so when you've had enough, you can tell them to fuck themselves and walk out. Better is to get fired for something that will still qualify you for unemployment so you get a paid vacation. Even better is to invest in short term disability insurance. Then go to a doc and find something that is physically bothering you. Get the doc to write you out of work for a qualifying ailment and enjoy staying home and experiencing freedom for awhile and making close to what you would be making anyway, maybe even more if your state has mandatory short term disability coverage provided by your employer or state.

 

[VERNmainman]

No, Í have extensively studied psychology in London.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

People's memories aren't very accurate, especially over time and people's feelings towards people can change their memory of past events, it's pretty well researched.......

As for people that actually gaslight, it's usually to cover up for something their up too......

Yes that is spot on with my examples in my post, i.e. the intent to either cover something up or fuck someone.

And it‘s actually a good tactic as corporations, organisations and society places a premium on de-escalation, being „constructive“ and not „finger-point“.

I think snakes truly are everywhere. Not every successful person is a snake, but way too many successful persons are, in my experience.

 

[William Huggins]

Yes that is spot on with my examples in my post, i.e. the intent to either cover something up or fuck someone.

And it‘s actually a good tactic as corporations, organisations and society places a premium on de-escalation, being „constructive“ and not „finger-point“.

I think snakes truly are everywhere. Not every successful person is a snake, but way too many successful persons are, in my experience.

Large cities and big organisations/corporations make this tactic even more effective.

Gaslighting, playing the victim...... All snake like game.

 

[ssBaldy]

I've had two very strong examples of being gaslit in recent years. here's the official definition:

Definition of GASLIGHTING

psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to question the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

First example- my marriage and divorce. Ex wife did this repeatedly in the last year we were together, essentially distorting events that happened between us and by trying to make me doubt everything I said. It got to the point where we'd have a discussion about an observation, she'd share her thoughts on the subject, I'd share mine, saying something like "X and Y, so Z" but she'd immediately respond with "oh it's not that, it's Z because Y and X".

We were literally saying the same thing, but she'd want me to believe I was wrong somehow. She initiated the separation but I didn't push back, as I had accepted the relationship wasn't working anymore.

Second, most recent example- my boss.

A few months back he had asked in a group meeting if we had any experts in AI. I raised my hand, and shared that I'd never call myself an expert but I did study it in school and I know the fundamentals of how it works and what it does. He cut the convo short and said we'd discuss later. In a few days in a one on one meeting, he didn't merely challenge me on what I was saying, he flat out told me that I didn't know anything about AI and he didn't appreciate that I shared that I had knowledge of the subject in a group setting. He wasn't just questioning my credentials, he was telling me what I knew and what I didn't know.

I walked out of the room. I wasn't going to tolerate that. What I ended up doing was sharing some links in some specific coursework I took and the very specific projects I worked on and the applications I used it for in the real world. He eventually had an "oh shit" moment and realized he messed up and apologized for the way he confronted me on the matter.

Another issue I have been having is with my team. When I share my thoughts about two specific people on my team, he seems to think his opinion on the subject is somehow more valid.

One guy, A, came to the team with minimal experience, but he is responsible and he has learned quite a bit. He's a good employee and I am glad to have him on my team, but I also recognize he lacks confidence due to his inexperience. I've been slowly teaching him more and giving him responsibilities because I do not want to overload him. He has already gotten promoted and given very good raises over the past 2 years, he just needs to be given space to develop over time.

The other guy, L is much older and is a bit of a space cadet. He technically has more experience, but he's very disorganized, impulsive, and forgetful. I think L needs more training and support- and it isn't something he's going to learn and adapt to by going to a 3 day seminar. I shared my concerns with L with my boss, and my boss is somehow convinced that I could solve the problem by giving some of L's responsibilities to A.

This is where the gaslighting comes in: Instead of taking me at my word on L's deficiencies, he started to pick apart some of the very basic examples I brought up of L making mistakes or forgetting to complete his tasks. Instead of listening to my concerns about overloading A, and even after giving some very specific examples as to how A is a great guy but lacks confidence, boss says "well that's just something you need to manage"

After some time he ultimately realized that L may not in fact be a good fit and he may need some additional support and training. I then think to myself, then why'd you have to make me doubt my own reality? Why were you so convinced that you had the answer when I'm the one who has to deal with L's incompetence and A's lack of confidence on a daily basis?


In both cases, like with my ex and with my boss, I feel like it's some form of insecurity manifesting. I suppose I should be glad I recognize this behavior and know it's not appropriate. It is justification for me to make a decision to move on. It just sucks to know I've wasted time and energy investing into a relationship and my career to have to look to start over again, because some people wanted to make me doubt reality.

I don't think your boss is gaslighting you per se. More like a boss doing boss things and thinkingbhe knows better every time.

 

[Sonny Qc]

I gaslight all girls I date to make them believe my terrbile behavior is their faults.

 

[Fury]

I don't think your boss is gaslighting you per se. More like a boss doing boss things and thinkingbhe knows better every time.

It's also possible that based on their history with their boss, their boss thinks they are full of shit. I have had people who work for me and they've done things, over time ,which make it hard for me to trust them or their judgement.

We were literally saying the same thing, but she'd want me to believe I was wrong somehow

The one with your wife, it just sounds like a couple arguing over words. It's a thing people do when they don't like each other. It could seem the same from her side. Also, she initiated a divorce, which wouldn't really require gaslighting you. You don't need to gaslight someone to leave them unless you live in a country where no fault divorce or something similar is not allowed.

There could have been gaslighting but you also just sound like every relationship in a downward spiral and you're assuming she doesn't feel like you were doing the same thing.

Generally, to me, gaslighting would require intent and usually serve a goal.

 

[Osculater]

Ya mean instigating/instigator

 

[AFanNotAFighter]

Sounds like what the news media has been doing for years.

 

[Thrawn33]

I see the term used mostly to deflect criticism of a person's own behavior like a psychological reverse uno card.

"You are doing this thing and it's wrong..."
"You are gaslighting me!"

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

Fool me once

 

[pugilistico]

I don‘t know I really understand what gaslighting is. I feel like it‘s a word I never heard until a year ago and now everyone is using it.

But if manipulative and bullying behavior intended to make someone take a blame unfairly is covered by the definition, then yes I see that shit a lot and react poorly to it.

It‘s typically an unfair person with a dishonest intent who instigates shit and then acts like a victim when they are being called out on it.

Or an incompetent person who fucks up at work and try to manipulate another for taking the blame. When that doesn‘t work and shit escalates, the incompetent person accuses of „finger-pointing“.

Yes I do see that shit a lot and see right through it. I have no problem confronting people like that and to burn bridges, because people who do that typically have negative value. However, the frustrating part is that this kind of stuff works on simple people so you have to be smart about it.

If you try to talk to your girl about her partying late at night without you, going on trips with her guy friends, posting thirst traps on instagram, and she accuses of you being insecure, or blames you for not being fun enough to go clubbing or traveling with her.

 

[pugilistico]

Fool me once

Did he died?

 

[mixmastermo]

It's also possible that based on their history with their boss, their boss thinks they are full of shit. I have had people who work for me and they've done things, over time ,which make it hard for me to trust them or their judgement.



The one with your wife, it just sounds like a couple arguing over words. It's a thing people do when they don't like each other. It could seem the same from her side. Also, she initiated a divorce, which wouldn't really require gaslighting you. You don't need to gaslight someone to leave them unless you live in a country where no fault divorce or something similar is not allowed.

There could have been gaslighting but you also just sound like every relationship in a downward spiral and you're assuming she doesn't feel like you were doing the same thing.

Generally, to me, gaslighting would require intent and usually serve a goal.

The gaslighting is specifically related to her wanting to make me believe things happened that didn't happen or me saying things I didn't say.

She was literally making me question my own reality.

The boss situation is similar in that sense.