Do we really need JDS vs Velasquez 3?

I wanna see it. I think JDS will be a lot more prepared. Hell, just before that fight I was debating a JDS superfan who stated JDS was gonna win easy again in the first. These men learn and improve. 1-1, and I think it's dismissive and foolish to think JDS will fight the same. he'll adapt and I think do much better next time.
 
Disagree, being finished is always worse than losing by a judges decision or points. Everyone I've ever talked to in judo and wrestling, every MMA fighter or boxer I've ever heard speak says the same thing - losing by points means you were still on your feet, still in the fight. Being finished, whether by pin in wrestling, ippon in judo, submission in BJJ, KO in boxing, finish in MMA, means you were taken out of the fight. Its the most complete domination you can get.

The only people I hear saying losing a one sided decision by points is worse than being finished are fans who've never competed. There's a kind of pride in going the distance that is lost you when you're finished.
You didn't even get the point.

I said that you can derive more information from a dominating performance over several rounds than you can from a quick KO. That has nothing to do with saying that it's not great to finish someone quickly.

Anyone can get KO'ed in MMA, but anyone can't dominate another fighter. You need to be better than the other to dominate and that, in addition to that you get more time to assess their skills and to lower the influence of freak occurrences, makes for much more information to base opinions on when you're predicting how another fight between the two combatants would follow.

I'm very proud of my results in martial arts competitions so I'm not ignorant about what it's like to fight (I never did MMA though) and, while I certainly did not want to be knocked out or submitted, I know that a rematch I would have the least confidence going into is if the opponent had just manhandled me in every area without me being able to stop him. If I would get rocked or submitted just due to me making a stupid mistake I'd be more confident that I could change the outcome the next time, just because there are more unknown factors to play with. In any case, I don't like to lose no matter how it happens. If I could decide how to win I'd of course take a quick finish since that lowers the risk of me being banged up and it's less work but, as said, that wasn't the point.
 
Embarassed??? He made it through 5 rounds. Velasquez was KO'd in the 1st round in their last fight.

JDS' victory was far more definitive.

There needs to be a 3rd fight.

You are saying that a knockout puncher is ranked higher than someone who uses different skills to achieve their goal. That is not true. JDS was never in this fight. Cain was never in the prior fight. A rematch should only occur if both fighters win their next fight(s)
 
I'm sure they will fight again at some point. There's only Overeem and Cormier besides them in the title picture. After one or two wins JDS gets another shot.
 
During the post fight press conference Dana was pretty much gagging at the chance to put together a rubber match.
After being dominated Junior should have to string some wins together before getting another shot at the champ, to be honest he was outclassed and embarrassed.
Do people really want to see another match after the destruction we saw tonight?
And wouldnt we really rather see Overeem ,Werdum and Cormier challenge for the title?

dana said that the trilogy fight is the biggest avaialble fight, but since jds lost so badly, it didnt make sense right now

but it is the biggest money fight to build up to for sure - after this win, everyone thinks that cain will win the next fight for sure, two nights ago, people would laugh at you for implying that cain had a chance and that he wouldnt just get clean ko'd again

mma community as a whole is full of idiots, im a part of it, which im sure doesnt hel
 
Cain should get the winner of Overeem/Bigfoot.

JDS should get the loser of Overeem/Bigfoot.

Yes, but i hope people dont start asking for Bigfoot to get cut after he loses 3 consecutive fights.

After those 3 fights he should fight Mitrione, Schaub and Struve to catch a break.
 
dana said that the trilogy fight is the biggest avaialble fight, but since jds lost so badly, it didnt make sense right now
hel

That is not true. He stated that the winner of the Overeem - Silva fight is probably the best next fight for Cain.
 
You didn't even get the point.

I said that you can derive more information from a dominating performance over several rounds than you can from a quick KO. That has nothing to do with saying that it's not great to finish someone quickly.

Anyone can get KO'ed in MMA, but anyone can't dominate another fighter. You need to be better than the other to dominate and that, in addition to that you get more time to assess their skills and to lower the influence of freak occurrences, makes for much more information to base opinions on when you're predicting how another fight between the two combatants would follow.

I'm very proud of my results in martial arts competitions so I'm not ignorant about what it's like to fight (I never did MMA though) and, while I certainly did not want to be knocked out or submitted, I know that a rematch I would have the least confidence going into is if the opponent had just manhandled me in every area without me being able to stop him. If I would get rocked or submitted just due to me making a stupid mistake I'd be more confident that I could change the outcome the next time, just because there are more unknown factors to play with. In any case, I don't like to lose no matter how it happens. If I could decide how to win I'd of course take a quick finish since that lowers the risk of me being banged up and it's less work but, as said, that wasn't the point.

Fair enough, at least you've competed so you know what its like. I still disagree.

In terms of confidence, I was always more nervous about facing someone who'd finished me (I did judo nationally and wrestled in college) by an ippon or pin than someone who'd just run up the score on me - and I think it'd be worse if I'd boxed or did MMA. Especially being pinned in wrestling, it was humilating. Knowing that my opponent could, if I made a mistake, finish it that quickly was always daunting. Someone who'd dominanted me I could work on for the next fight, because it was usually a number of small things, or tactics, and knowing they didn't have finishing power always gave me hope.

Which brings me to your second point. I think we learn one very important thing from a quick finish and a domination that you're overlooking - the person who finished quickly has finishing power, the one who dominated for five rounds but couldn't finish doesn't, but has better general skills/abilities. The abilities are actually almost orthogonal - its actually fairly common for someone with great finishing abilities to be lacking in general skills, and vice versa.

And I still disagree about freak occurrences - as much as I hate to admit it, when I was pinned in wrestling, or thrown for an ippon in judo, it wasn't my opponent getting a freak occurrence stroke of luck, it was them doing the right thing at the right time with the right abilities. I'll admit I sometimes muttered something to the effect that they just "got lucky" afterwards, but that was just trying to save face, the fact was, their finishes, like JDS's, involved a lot of skill and ability. And when I won by a pin or ippon throw, I knew it wasn't luck, because I knew what I did, both in training and on the mats, to set up that pin or ippon. As you probably know very well from your own experience, what looks like luck to someone watching is almost always something earned by countless hours drilling, and clever setup once in competition.

What it takes to grind out a dominating decision and what it takes for a quick finish are different, but both are skill based, and both tell us a lot about the fighters. JDS has very good finishing ability, better than Cain's. Cain lacks JDS's finishing ability, but has better general skills. The first time JDS's skills dominated, the second time Cain's. If they fought again, I wouldn't bet my house on either, because the skills are at cross purposes.
 
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JDS got destroyed but Cain was KOed in the first round also. Two good wins and shitle tot!
 
BOTH their only losses from UFC are from each other. one finish one in under minute knockout. second in a 25 minute decision. Dana love have 3rd rematch in mexico i bet!
 
JDS will come back strong.. AKA just put together a great gameplan.. no offense to Team Nog, but sparring with Cormier on a daily basis was a huge advantage
 
If JDS fought Cormier, Reem or Werdum next and dominated them. He'd have a strong case for another title shot.
 
Cain gets knocked unconscious, something he coulsnt do to junior and gets a title shot with a win over a guy coming off a KO loss but junior isn't allowed to challenge again?

What kind of warped logic is that.

Junior needs one or two more wins and he will get his shot.

It's sherdog logic. :redface:
 
Both guys have blown the other out - albeit in different ways.

3rd match is justified.
 
Of course there should be a rubber match. Give JDS a match and if he wins convincingly he should get the rubber match.

JDS got smoked in the first round, that punch would have knocked many a person out, it's not easy to keep yours wits about you when you get hit that hard. The guys are pros, but come on, it takes a lot of you.

Also lulz at people calling the first fight a 'flash KO'
 
Why were people fine with a relatively quick rematch for cain when he got ktfo in a minute in a half, but somehow JDS has to "string some wins together" or something to get a rubber match after a (admittedly not close) decision win? It's an interesting fight because the first two were so dominant, one for each guy, in a completely different way.
 
Why were people fine with a relatively quick rematch for cain when he got ktfo in a minute in a half, but somehow JDS has to "string some wins together" or something to get a rubber match after a (admittedly not close) decision win? It's an interesting fight because the first two were so dominant, one for each guy, in a completely different way.

Yes. Pretty much. JDS should meet someone at Bigfoots level and if he wins he's earned the fight.
 
Both guys have won a fight their style; JDS with the ko and Cain with the dominating 5 round ass whoopin. The rubber match definitely needs to happen.

Unfortunately I don't think it will happen for the title as I don't see Cain getting passed Overeem.
 
One big win for JDS and one defense by Cain and I'd be all for a rematch. Immediate remtaches are stupid imo unless there was a controversial decision/stoppage...
 
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