Do people realize that Bernie Sanders is further left than the Party for European Socialists?

[SouthoftheAndes]

Pascal Lamy is the former Director of the World Trade Organization and has been a member of the French Socialist party since 1969. The French Socialist Party's, European Affiliation is the Party of European Socialists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_European_Socialists

The current President of France is an admitted socialist and belongs to the Socialist party of France.

These are just TWO important and powerful people who are Socialists, (further left than anything America has ever seen) and YET they have political and philosophical ideologies that are completely against the views that Bernie Sanders is spewing.



Fact Bernie Sanders goes around the country claiming that the "economy is rigged"

Fact Bernie Sanders is AGAINST the World Trade Organization and wants to pull the USA out of it.


Fact Sanders, has ZERO support from any prominent people Internationally and for a guy who wants to bring Democratic socialism to America, it is interesting how the Democratic Socialists in Europe are largely all silent and are not bitting. Why is this?

Europe (western Europe) is far more progressive than the United States (and Canada included) and yet I don't see ANY significant support for him ANYWHERE.



Bernie is essentially so "anti-Establishment" that he wouldn't even fit in Britain's Labour party, because he might call them "imperialists". In fact I am even wondering if Bernie with his anti-trade, and wacky economic ideas could even fit in, in Canada's Liberal party.


If you don't believe me here is just a sample of how far he is compared to say the SOCIALIST President of France, Franocis Hollande (who is pro Free Trade by the way and does not spew conspiracy theories).

 

[uncommon]

He gets it right on trade, and he wants money out of politics. If i believed in liberal ideology he would be the obvious pick in comparison to she who must not be named.

 

[xcvbn]

Fuck

He gets it right on trade, and he wants money out of politics. If i believed in liberal ideology he would be the obvious pick in comparison to she who must not be named.

Fuck that I'll name the cunt for you: Hillary Rodham Clinton

I'd be curious if 60s/WTO ideology is in Bern's repertoire

 

[Dolomite]

Don't care.

At least you know where the guy is coming from.

 

[xcvbn]

Btw you say things like "against NATO" and "against WTO" and I'm thinking hell yeah

 

[Kalmah]

Sounds like Bernie's got you shook.

 

[Lead]

He gets it right on trade, and he wants money out of politics. If i believed in liberal ideology he would be the obvious pick in comparison to she who must not be named.

Trade is the thing he is the most wrong on. Trade is only a net positive in the long term for both sides. Both benefit.

 

[National Acrobat]

If a guy is legitimately anti-establishment, why would it surprise you that he is not endorsed by the international establishment??

 

[VivaRevolution]

Wait......is this supposed to hurt Bernie, or help him SOA?

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

The thing is I am noticing is a sort of cognitive dissonance among the far left in America "the so called" "progressive wing". Who are rallying behind Bernie Sanders. On one hand continually point to Europe, in particular Western Europe, Northern Europe, and they point to countries like Germany and France as "role models" of what America should be and think Sanders will get us there.

And yet the leaders and the dominating liberal "progressive parties" of Canada, France, and the UK are all to the right of Bernie Sanders. Furthermore, the party leaders don't spew the insane conspiracy theories that are baseless and fact less that Sanders routinely spews.

More "progressives" would realize this if it wasn't for the fact that they are caught up playing identity politics and failing to research what ACTUAL Democratic Socialists in Europe think, want and believe in.

The conflict is that they are supporting a Candidate (Bernie Sanders) who won't bring them the type of European Democratic Socialism that they see France or say 'Denmark' enjoying. Those nations aren't governed by people who resort to groundless conspiracy theories.

 

[ncordless]

Rustled by the Wisky results yesterday?

 

[VivaRevolution]

Trade is the thing he is the most wrong on. Trade is only a net positive in the long term for both sides. Both benefit.

Still waiting on those tech jobs promised to us in the 90's......................................

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

Wait......is this supposed to hurt Bernie, or help him SOA?

It should hurt him.

Democratic Socialists of Europe don't like him and the socialist leaders of some European countries and liberal parties of Europe don't have anything in common with him. Bernie is so "anti-Establishment" that he would destroy any hopes that American progressives have of America becoming something like France, the UK, Canada or Germany.

 

[theBLADE1]

Look at all the brainwashed people waiting to see they're favorite conspiracy nut.

 

[VivaRevolution]

It should hurt him.

Democratic Socialists of Europe don't like him and the socialist leaders of some European countries and liberal parties of Europe don't have anything in common with him. Bernie is so "anti-Establishment" that he would destroy any hopes that American progressives have of America becoming something like France, the UK, Canada or Germany.

Oh yeah, calling him further left then Europe hurts him in many people's eyes. The problem is that what you follow that comment up with, a belief our systems are rigged and corrupt, well this is what the majority of the people in this country think.

It amazes me that you don't see what a minority you are on these issues. If the left and right anti-establishment ever joined forces, your ilk would be a historical reference.

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

Look at all the brainwashed people waiting to see they're favorite conspiracy nut.

Most of them probably want America to be more like Canada, France, Germany, the UK or Denmark. And yet all those nations have leaders and dominant liberal parties that are AGAINST the beliefs that Bernie Sanders spews, i.e., they aren't Anti-WTO.

Denmark even told Bernie to essentially STFU

http://louderwithcrowder.com/socalists-to-bernie-sanders-shut-up/

Again facts are facts.

Francois Hollande the Socialist president of France is to the right of Sanders and would probably think Sanders is nuts with his crazy theories and his lack of knowledge of foreign policy, economics or trade. You would notice this if you weren't caught up playing identity politics.

 

[Der Eisbär]

There's so much misguided bullshit in the OP it's almost too much to fathom.

To start, if he's SO much further to the left, why is his proposed tax plan SO much lighter than that of Northern Europe and France? Bernie's tax plan is leaps and bounds lighter than those. Pretty weird for a socialist that's further to the left than Europe's socialists to propose fewer taxes than them.

If he's so much further to the left, why does he not advocate for partial state ownership of major industry as they do in the Nordic model? In the Nordic countries the State has a majority share in major oil firms and the like. Bernie has never once advocated for State ownership of major companies/industries.

So those are the two BIGGEST issues for a true socialist: state ownership of firms, and heavy taxes. And yet, Bernie is to the right of the Nordic model, the French socialists and the labor party on those issues.

Idk where you gathered this nonsense from. It's purely all your own rhetoric and opinion based on nothing.

 

[Lead]

Still waiting on those tech jobs promised to us in the 90's......................................

I didn't promise anyone shit in the 90's. There are tech jobs right now. They obviously are less than what we had with manufacturing. No one is arguing the labor participation rate hasn't been dropping since the 90's. What most of us are acknowledging though is you can't reverse technological innovation. Jobs that were taken away from machines will stay gone.

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

Oh yeah, calling him further left then Europe hurts him in many people's eyes. The problem is that what you follow that comment up with, a belief our systems are rigged and corrupt, well this is what the majority of the people in this country think.

It amazes me that you don't see what a minority you are on these issues. If the left and right anti-establishment ever joined forces, your ilk would be a historical reference.

Europeans don't believe stuff is "rigged" to the degree that Sanders is claiming.

Just ask @Thames or @JDragon they will be the first to tell you that believing in such conspiracy theories is beyond stupid. They will agree that their is corruption, and all that sorts of stuff. But from my experience you won't find many Western Europeans who actually believe that their is some shadowy elite. Which is what many Bernie Fans seem to be saying. Bernie is definitely attracting the "NWO" crowd and it is hurting him in my opinion.


All I am saying is that Bernie Sanders being so anti-Trade among other things is in direct opposition to the policy and platforms of ACTUAL European Socialists like the French President.

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

There's so much misguided bullshit in the OP it's almost too much to fathom.

To start, if he's SO much further to the left, why is his proposed tax plan SO much lighter than that of Northern Europe and France? Bernie's tax plan is leaps and bounds lighter than those. Pretty weird for a socialist that's further to the left than Europe's socialists to propose fewer taxes than them.

If he's so much further to the left, why does he not advocate for partial state ownership of major industry as they do in the Nordic model? In the Nordic countries the State has a majority share in major oil firms and the like. Bernie has never once advocated for State ownership of major companies/industries.

So those are the two BIGGEST issues for a true socialist: state ownership of firms, and heavy taxes. And yet, Bernie is to the right of the Nordic model, the French socialists and the labor party on those issues.

Idk where you gathered this nonsense from. It's purely all your own rhetoric and opinion based on nothing.

Further to the left or rather "more fringe" with regards to his Trade policy (and also in many cases foreign policy, and International relations). Bernie Sanders is an advocate of conspiracy theories which is something that NO European leaders are for.

If you are a European than you should know that there is not a respectable leader in Europe today who believes that "things are rigged" out to get them. And yet that is consistently the view that Sanders is seeming to advocate along side his major mistakes and lack of knowledge on foreign policy (like overstating Palestinian deaths by Israel via 500%).

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/bernies-conspiracy-theory-213307