Do I understand this correctly?

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Attempting and missing a sub is not that much better than missing a punch or kick.

What? Submission attempts can cause damage and it is showing that you got close to ending the fight. That is no way similar to missing a strike. Missed strikes don't almost end fights or cause damage. Close submission attempts should be scored like a knock down or someone getting rocked.

 

[snugglecakes]

Judges mark down the round as a win for A cause they didn’t see the armbar but then a moment later they hear the doctor say “his arm is broken. the fight is over “ then you see the ref wave the fight off as a doctor stoppage win for B

 

[MarleyLynx]

If the officials (ref and doctor) know the arm is broken then the fight is stopped. Is this a made up scenario?

That was not the case in Tony's recent fights nor the recent fight we had with the Chinese WMMA fighter who got her arm broken.

 

[lostdog000]

B wins round
damage is a criteria

 

[Dude Incredible]

Subway doesn't cut their bread completely through similar to the hotdog bun. Does that mean it's a lie for them to call them sandwiches?

Subway is desperately attempting to rebrand themselves. 'Customizable Hotdoggery' would sell big!

 

[Draxton]

Just to help settle this

A sandwich is like a hamburger, but colder, right?

So is a hamburger a type of sandwich, or it's own thing all together?

Help me understand this.

Totally a type of sandwich

What about a hotdog? Is it a sandwich or something else?

Cowburger a sandwich or not, as long as it tastes good, I don't care what it's called even if it's a hotdog. Time to eat.

A hamburger is indeed a type of sandwich.

 

[Sensee]

A sandwich is like a hamburger, but colder, right?

So is a hamburger a type of sandwich, or it's own thing all together?

Help me understand this.

 

[Draxton]

I don’t agree. Burgers are too distinct a food item to be lumped together with sandwiches.

One aspect that distinguishes burgers from sandwiches is that burgers are only really suitable for near immediate consumption, whereas the whole concept of a true sandwich is portablility and longevity.

I mean, are we going to be calling shish taouks or shawarmas ‘sandwiches’ as well? Let’s not go crazy here.

No no. The whole concept of a sandwich is for the ease of consumption without dirtying your hands. The sandwich was invented so that guy could play cards and eat meat/cheese without utensils or dirtying his fingers.

 

[blaseblah]

Hypothetically, take a round where the standup has no advantage to either fighter.

Fighter A scores a takedown late in the round
Fighter B armbars fighter A , snaps the arm but fighter A doesn't tap and ends the round with a mangled, broken arm still on top.

Fighter A wins the round due to control?

No. Fighter B would win the round and the fight would be called off due to doctor stoppage. The important thing is effective grappling. Just being on top doesn't mean you are winning the fight.

 

[Carrotman23]

Close submission attempts like the one Sandhagen had should be scored like a knock down or an opponent getting rocked. Some judges do seem to score them that way but it's not many and all of them should score them that way.

I never thought of it that way but great point . A sub attempt like that does damage that matters and lasts in the fight like someone getting rocked . Should definitely contribute to a 10-8 round . Good looks sherbro

 

[Sensee]

A lot of you here are leaning on dictionary definitions, which are entirely inadequate. If one or two bits of bread like elements with whatever filling in-between is all that’s required to satisfy the definition of sandwich, then why does no one ever classify eggs benedict as an ‘open-faced sandwich’?

I think that part of what is confusing the issue is that In north america (and possibly in the UK, I don’t know) that white fluff you guys call ‘bread’ is essentially the same as a burger bun. In EU, ‘bread’ means proper textured bread and burger buns are something else entirely. So to me, a burger is even farther off from a sandwich. Ingredients matter, as I explained with the eggs benedict example (and there are many others I could get into but skipping for conciseness).

Eggs Benedict is a delicious open-faced English muffin sandwich. Topped with a perfectly poached egg, Canadian bacon, and a rich and creamy hollandaise sauce, it's a favorite.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I never thought of it that way but great point . A sub attempt like that does damage that matters and lasts in the fight like someone getting rocked . Should definitely contribute to a 10-8 round . Good looks sherbro

I've always thought of close submissions attempts to be the grappling equivalent of someone getting rocked or knocked down and the judging criteria says that striking and grappling are equally scored so it just makes sense to me to score them that way. A joint lock that causes damage IMO should score higher than a close choke though as there's no damage factor to chokes unless its combined with a neck crank.

 

[Carrotman23]

I've always thought of close submissions attempts to be the grappling equivalent of someone getting rocked or knocked down and the judging criteria says that striking and grappling are equally scored so it just makes sense to me to score them that way. A joint lock that causes damage IMO should score higher than a close choke though as there's no damage factor to chokes unless its combined with a neck crank.

I think it should be a combination of dominant position, accessable impact and duration . So like you said a submission that clearly causes damage (joint lock) should be scored as a knockdown , also a locked in sub attempt should be scored like a takedown or dominant position time . So 30 seconds in a sub attempt would be like 30 seconds in mount but maybe in a criteria scored before position control .
Of course judges are so dumb these days they don't even recognize the severity of taking someone's back so we got a long ways to go <45>

 

[finalboss]

He lost, get over it.

 

[mudrubble]

Hypothetically, take a round where the standup has no advantage to either fighter.

Fighter A scores a takedown late in the round
Fighter B armbars fighter A , snaps the arm but fighter A doesn't tap and ends the round with a mangled, broken arm still on top.

Fighter A wins the round due to control?

Yes. Aggression is the new damage. Just push and be aggressive and go into surgery after. Because you won. The guy who broke your limb (AND outstruck you) will lose and you work your way to the title fight.

What don't you understand?

After the bookies get their $ on the outcome, you can pinky promise the loser that he's also on the path to the title.

What's confusing you in this??

 

[Bend NvR Break]

So TS is suggesting we wait until after a medical examination to determine who wins a fight?

 

[MarleyLynx]

No. Fighter B would win the round and the fight would be called off due to doctor stoppage. The important thing is effective grappling. Just being on top doesn't mean you are winning the fight.

It typically doesn't call the fight see tony's last 2 fights and the chinese WMMA fighter (her name escapes me).

 

[MarleyLynx]

Just to help settle this

View attachment 870603

So Calzone is king?

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I think it should be a combination of dominant position, accessable impact and duration . So like you said a submission that clearly causes damage (joint lock) should be scored as a knockdown , also a locked in sub attempt should be scored like a takedown or dominant position time . So 30 seconds in a sub attempt would be like 30 seconds in mount but maybe in a criteria scored before position control .
Of course judges are so dumb these days they don't even recognize the severity of taking someone's back so we got a long ways to go <45>

It is supposed to be, everything is supposed to be scored on like a sliding scale where each action is like a tug of war where every offensive action scores, takedowns, passing, strikes, sub attempts ect but with damage and submission attempts being the most valuable things.

I think a locked in sub should be scored higher than that, being in a sub for 30 seconds is much worse than being mounted for 30 seconds not counting strikes of course.

 

[blaseblah]

It typically doesn't call the fight see tony's last 2 fights and the chinese WMMA fighter (her name escapes me).

The fight was called when Kanako Murata broke her arm. There was never any proof that Tony Ferguson broke his arm. Just being in a bad looking submission doesn't end the fight unless there is visible evidence the limb is broken.