Do firearms make people dumber?

[s mack 88]

Yes, people with firearms are dumber.

Lol, I'll let the lawyer/CPA and CPA down the hall from me know they are dumb for owning guns.

 

[jamesmiller14]

I've been through multiple forums now searching for a good high powered rifle arguement that didn't include the neocon wet fantasy of self preservation in a civil war or federal suppression, or the "but I really love guns!" sentiment. The arguement against reinstating the assault weapon ban from prior decade seems to be that it would have zero effect. Zero. Really? Or is it the fact that because it's not the ONLY step we need to take and your mistrust of the feds/love for your gun that youre not willing to come off of it just to move the needle a little bit? If they were even considering taking the guns that I own I would jump on the nra bandwagon so fast your fucking head would spin. Theyre not. Im perfectly safe with the guns I have and I'm convinced that there isn't going to be a serious areguement presented isn't rooted in gun worship from the start. If youre in love with guns then you will simply not see the logic in the upcoming ban. Have fun fighting the police for your weapon, should make great tv.

 

[new_mexico1]

There are people, especially women, who are able to shoot AR 15 style guns more accurately and safely than handguns. The .223 is actually an under powered round and they are able to get their body behind the gun and control it better. I also know people who use them for pest control and they work a lot better heavier hu.ting rifles.

I have a gun that will probably fall into an assault rifle ban though its clearly designed for sporting purposes

 

[jamesmiller14]

So we may have one less tool in pest control and women may have a harder time shooting at the range? I'm looking for something I can't live with... Honestly im looking for something I cant live witth. I know some will see me as leaning way left on this but my mind is not made up. Has anyone read a really good arguement on this that can pm me a link? Looking for a pro big gun arguement that isnt rooted in gun worship from the start.

 

[new_mexico1]

Its not really a nig gun. Its a small underpowered round. And people throughout the country beimg able to use a gun more safely and others using it to work easier are legit reasons.

 

[Phreaxer]

The .223 is actually an under powered round

How so? Not trolling or being a smartass, I'd actually really like to know. I'm not well versed in rifle calibers

 

[new_mexico1]

How so? Not trolling or being a smartass, I'd actually really like to know. I'm not well versed in rifle calibers

.223 is a small round compared to most rifle rounds and rounds typically used for hunting. That is why many can control them well. There isnt much recoil. Many models that use the round are intended for rural ranch work and considered varmit guns. Look up size comparisons of the .223 vs. other rounds and youll see the difference.

 

[Real_Magi]

I don't know. Reaching under my grandpa's couch and pulling out his rifle when I was a kid was pretty fuckin easy. I guess some WMDs are fairly easy to make as well.

Buying them should be a pain in the ass. It makes sure that it is mainly law abiding citizens buying the guns.

If you are among the ones building underground bunkers and would kill to keep your guns, you are pathetic. If these people do fight to keep their guns, it would only be more proof for anti-gun people. I still don't think there are near enough people that would act to start a Civil War. A couple idiots fighting to keep their guns wouldn't make it a war.

I'm not for banning guns, but it's far too easy to buy them currently. There are also many guns you can buy that have no practical use in modern society outside of war zones.

I don't have an underground bunker and don't plan on ever having one. If there was ever an out right ban and someone came to take my weapons, a fire fight would ensue and I'm ex infantry so I would have a massive advantage against your average police officer. I have no problem admitting that. It's my constitutional right and honestly every single person I personally know would do the same. I meet probably 3 new people every day because of my job and every single person I've ever met in my area of residence not only has this attitude, but owns a small arsenal.

The funny thing is that the majority of the combat MOS's in the military are occupied by people who grew up in a rural area as well. I probably met 5 people out of the hundreds of people I knew while enlisted that were actually from a city. Almost every man in my family has military experience and we were all combat MOS's.

Many guns that have no practical use outside of a war zone? You seriously need to educate yourself man. You can't even buy true assault rifles, haven't been able to for decades. A semi auto ar-15 with cool rails and shit isn't an assault rifle because it doesn't have selective fire. Also, the .223 round is perfect for hunting small game and that is why so many people own an ar-15.

Like I said earlier, gun control actually causes crime to increase because it takes the ability to defend yourself with a powerful weapon out of the hands of the civilian thta actually follows laws in the first place. Australia is proof of this. Criminals don't follow the law so how would gun regulations affect them in the least?

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

Steady crime increase since the gun ban. This is proof that it doesn't work, but it also makes more victims out of the country's residents.

In all honesty it's perfectly feasible that the government is aware of this but the only reason they're pushing for more gun control is so they can easily control the populace. They're spewing forth propaganda and people are eating it up. How many more rights will be removed because people are stupid enough to ask the government to take them away? And when shit hits the fan, tyranny is at an all time high, and we have no way of retaliating because our weapons are gone, what happens then?

 

[Phreaxer]

.223 is a small round compared to most rifle rounds and rounds typically used for hunting. That is why many can control them well. There isnt much recoil. Many models that use the round are intended for rural ranch work and considered varmit guns. Look up size comparisons of the .223 vs. other rounds and youll see the difference.

The bullets are small. I think they are powered a bit too much, which is why I was asking. Now, for taking down game, no. They aren't really up to par for a hunting round.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

I've been through multiple forums now searching for a good high powered rifle arguement that didn't include the neocon wet fantasy of self preservation in a civil war or federal suppression, or the "but I really love guns!" sentiment. The arguement against reinstating the assault weapon ban from prior decade seems to be that it would have zero effect. Zero. Really? Or is it the fact that because it's not the ONLY step we need to take and your mistrust of the feds/love for your gun that youre not willing to come off of it just to move the needle a little bit? If they were even considering taking the guns that I own I would jump on the nra bandwagon so fast your fucking head would spin. Theyre not. Im perfectly safe with the guns I have and I'm convinced that there isn't going to be a serious areguement presented isn't rooted in gun worship from the start. If youre in love with guns then you will simply not see the logic in the upcoming ban. Have fun fighting the police for your weapon, should make great tv.

Yes TS, it does make people stupid^

 

[Damien Karras]

Real Magi is a smart guy and clearly in love with his guns.

But I can't accept the whole "If you don't arm yourself the criminals will" argument as applicable to every nation. I'm not saying he believes that every nation should have lax gun laws, but I don't think Norway (despite the recent tragedy) would be better off with guns in circulation.


I think cultural legacy is a far bigger factor in gun violence or violence in general than any kind of gun law. If you're a violent nation, then you're pretty much fucked because violence is a self fulfilling prophecy. You need guns to protect yourself against all the other nut jobs out there.

Canada has guns but there aren't as many in circulation than in the states. It also reflects the level of violent crime in our country which is far less than in our southern neighbors. But we also don't have a history of civil war, revolution or violent protests (save Stanley Cup riots).

 

[eBank]

After what happened in Connecticut, there have been tons of debates on firearms.

One thing I notice is, everybody talk about how firearms could nullify somebody with firearms easily. Just like as if they are turning a tv off with remote or something.

It seems like every time firearms is bring up, people act like they will easily shot somebody who also are armed, if teachers were armed they could stop the situation, and list goes on.

But doesn't anyone even think "what if the "good guy" got shot first?" or "what if the situation was taken by surprise?" or anything like that.

It just make me think that everybody who think firearms are answer to their problem are nothing but bunches of idiot who think that just because they have a firearms they are immortal and can stop anything in their path no matter what.

Do anyone who have firearms even look at thing from realistic PoV? BTW I'm not a anti gun person but I'm starting to leans toward it simply because of sheer stupidity of people when it come to firearms.

Please tell me Engrish isn't your first language. If it is; you own a firearm, don't cha?

 

[EyeTrainUFC]

I know someone who has been doing a "Countdown to the end of Freedom" in which he counts down the days until Obama's second term starts and our freedom is inexplicably taken away. He thinks that as soon as the 2nd term starts the government is going to collect all of our guns. :redface: These are the type of people (outlyers of course) that make gun lovers look ridiculous. The logistics alone of that make it impossible. Do you have any idea the kind of man power it would take to go door to door and take everyone's guns? Most police departments are laying cops off and cutting back as it is.

 

[tdluxon]

If somebody with the warped mentality and suicidal determination wants to shoot up a school, no gun law of any kind can stop it.

Prevention begins with the parental or guardian upbringing.

They can't shoot up the school if they don't have the gun. The standard gun nut response to this fact is that people will still get their guns on the black market but that is BS. Gangs/organized crime may still get guns that way, but some lunatic loner like the people that commit these mass shootings are not going to know any black market gun dealers. Also guns and ammos on the black market will be much more expensive, especially once the overall supply of decreases (you know, supply and demand).

Less guns = Less people getting shot. Look at the number of gun deaths in ANY other civilized country and they are a tiny fraction of those in the US. Anyone that thinks that is a coincidence is either in serious denial or is really dumb.

 

[KOCowboy]

less cars mean less people dying in car crashes

 

[KOCowboy]

They can't shoot up the school if they don't have the gun. The standard gun nut response to this fact is that people will still get their guns on the black market but that is BS. Gangs/organized crime may still get guns that way, but some lunatic loner like the people that commit these mass shootings are not going to know any black market gun dealers. Also guns and ammos on the black market will be much more expensive, especially once the overall supply of decreases (you know, supply and demand).

Less guns = Less people getting shot. Look at the number of gun deaths in ANY other civilized country and they are a tiny fraction of those in the US. Anyone that thinks that is a coincidence is either in serious denial or is really dumb.

cuban cigars are illegal yet every cigar shop has them and anyone that wants one can smoke one
weed is illegal yet everywhere at the same time
when alcohol was illegal moonshine was easy to get

so obviously making guns illegal would keep people from getting them

 

[Blackdanger***]

I had a thought this morning about the whole gun debate going on right now.

Essentially pro-gun people are saying, if more people had conceal carry permits they could have stopped this. If teachers had locked guns in the classroom they could have prevented this. Basically for every person that owns a gun you need someone else to have a gun to shoot down them down if they go crazy.

So following this logic...

If Adam Lanza's mother had a gun she could have prevented this.

OH WAIT...

 

[KOCowboy]

I had a thought this morning about the whole gun debate going on right now.

Essentially pro-gun people are saying, if more people had conceal carry permits they could have stopped this. If teachers had locked guns in the classroom they could have prevented this. Basically for every person that owns a gun you need someone else to have a gun to shoot down them down if they go crazy.

So following this logic...

If Adam Lanza's mother had a gun she could have prevented this.

OH WAIT...

wtf are you talking about?

tell the other side of the story say what the anti gun crowd is saying that: "if you outlaw guns no one will ever die again!" (i kid in this qoute of course)

but we dont live in an utopian society either
a gun never killed anyone without a person behind it

 

[Blackdanger***]

Only people in denial about US gun laws are americans. Everywhere else in the world people are saying wtf you guys want to solve gun problems by having even more liberal gun laws.

And no one is saying restricting or prohibiting certain weapons will stop every single gun homicide or killing spree.

 

[Real_Magi]

Real Magi is a smart guy and clearly in love with his guns.

But I can't accept the whole "If you don't arm yourself the criminals will" argument as applicable to every nation. I'm not saying he believes that every nation should have lax gun laws, but I don't think Norway (despite the recent tragedy) would be better off with guns in circulation.


I think cultural legacy is a far bigger factor in gun violence or violence in general than any kind of gun law. If you're a violent nation, then you're pretty much fucked because violence is a self fulfilling prophecy. You need guns to protect yourself against all the other nut jobs out there.

Canada has guns but there aren't as many in circulation than in the states. It also reflects the level of violent crime in our country which is far less than in our southern neighbors. But we also don't have a history of civil war, revolution or violent protests (save Stanley Cup riots).

See and that's the thing. This country was founded by rebels and they believed that the residents of this country should always have the ability to stand up to the government (with force if necessary) and demand fare treatment. That's why the Patriot Act and the talk of more gun control sicken me.

If the government truly wanted to ensure that guns don't fall into the hands of murderers they would simply need to institute a psychological evaluation that is mandatory with the purchase of a gun. But instead, they're far more concerned with affecting the masses out right -- even the guys that have owned guns for 30 years or more and have never committed a crime.

Actually giving a fuck about the drug cartels and the illegal distribution of firearms via the Mexican border would be a great place to start as well. The funny thing is that the illegal distribution of firearms is a huge money maker for firearm manufacturers and the US is one of the largest purchasers of those firearms in the world -- suggesting an intimate relationship between the manufacturers and the US government.

All in all, it's unrealistic to believe that the government has crime rates in mind at all when they push for gun control, but rather more control over the populace and the continued deterioration of the constitutional rights of our citizens.

I truly believe that no matter what the situation is our constitutional rights should be upheld no matter what.

Only people in denial about US gun laws are americans. Everywhere else in the world people are saying wtf you guys want to solve gun problems by having even more liberal gun laws.

And no one is saying restricting or prohibiting certain weapons will stop every single gun homicide or killing spree.

Have you read anything in this thread at all? Countries that have banned guns have experienced an overall increase in crime since the ban and a very minimal effect on gun crime laws. Some countries even watched the gun crimes go up after the ban.