distance vs sprint?

[loafyofbread]

SKizzit, read the sticky "how to finally solve your conditioning problem". saying things like "LSD is a waste of time" is just utter ignorance.

 

[CelebritySexist]

More and more these days, HIIT seems to be an acronym for High Intensity Ignorance Training. It's remarkable the amount of cognitive resistance being put up by some to the well-established fact that LSD has great application, with hundreds of world champion fighters swearing by it.

Skizzit, for what it's worth, Mr. Peruggia is probably basing all of his theories and ideas about anaerobic training and intervals off the work of "some dude on the internet" as well. I could wind back to 2006 and read people blindly standing by LSD as the sole fitness tool in contradistinction to high-intensity means, and the argument would not look terribly different to what we are seeing here. Heedlessly using HIIT without regards to your actual requirements and other training loads is dumb and linear, and you seem to be slotting one paradigm into your belief apparatus in place of another, without taking the time to modify your ability to apply your own thinking.

Anyway, feel free to resurrect the thread and show some contrition when Joel's ideas become the Next Big Thing and are diluted and sold by other "dudes on the internet."

 

[Disco Gooch**]

I was watching Paul Daley doing incline sprints between pads and other drills the other week. I thought I'd give them a bash (bit of a noob to S&C), and they are murderous.

I imagine both have different benefits as stated, so it definitely depends on what your goals are.

 

[manny66]

You have to do a combination of both Distance and Sprint work.When I was a competitive runner our coach had us do a different workout every single day,I cant recall ever doing the same thing twice in a week..One thing we did do was LSD at the beginning of the racing season to build up/attune our legs to the pounding and repetiveness of the running season.

Competitive Running like MMA and combat sports has bursts of high output energy as well as A slow constant state of readiness that uses slow twitch muscles.A sparring session and a fight is akin to running on a long hilly course.Flat sections of roads=circling and foot work(aerobic), and than uphills=punch kick combinations-rolling (anarobic),and than back again to aerobic. I feel that in order to be a complete Fighter, you have to crosstrain your running to get complete benefits just like you would cross train your fighting skills.Your not ever going to go in the gym 5 days a week and strictly do bag work and think your ready to fight are you?There is no rule or secret to running, everyones body is different and you Must change up your workouts.DO BOTH.

 

[KylePulley]

The way I see it, is that you have a certain percentage of "Gas" (using cars as comparison)

You have two energy consumption engines, Aerobic, Anaerobic.

You have X amount of gas (you start 100% = completely fresh)

For mma, when your

Bouncing around on your heels throwing jabs and fients..
Blocking punches on the ground or standing by moving around and putting arms up..

Your using your Aerobic gas consumption engine.

For mma, when your

In heavy exchanges..
Shooting or Sprawling...
In clinch battle...
Passing, sweeping, defending submissions, ground work etc...
Greco Roman Wreslting (against cage etc.)..

Your using you Anerobic gas consumption engine.

Regardless you need both engines to be highly gas effiecient, by training them. But if you are asking which engine is more important, I believe its your ability to be explosive ie. Anerobic.

 

[paolo27th]

The way I see it, is that you have a certain percentage of "Gas" (using cars as comparison)

You have two energy consumption engines, Aerobic, Anaerobic.

You have X amount of gas (you start 100% = completely fresh)

For mma, when your

Bouncing around on your heels throwing jabs and fients..
Blocking punches on the ground or standing by moving around and putting arms up..

Your using your Aerobic gas consumption engine.

For mma, when your

In heavy exchanges..
Shooting or Sprawling...
In clinch battle...
Passing, sweeping, defending submissions, ground work etc...
Greco Roman Wreslting (against cage etc.)..

Your using you Anerobic gas consumption engine.

Regardless you need both engines to be highly gas effiecient, by training them. But if you are asking which engine is more important, I believe its your ability to be explosive ie. Anerobic.

There are 2 anaerobic systems. The explosive one is the alactic, which doesn`t produce an oxygen debt, is VERY explosive, but only lasts a few seconds. This is what you want to use. Throw a combination, move and recover, throw another combination etc...

The lactic one on the other hand you can think of as your "emergency" system. Like when you desperately have to scramble out of position and no matter how tired you are feeling you need to keep pushing. This system lasts less than 2 minutes and it takes a big toll on your gas tank so you want to use it as little as possible.

Recovering from a full out anaerobic (lactic) burst is pretty much impossible when you have someone throwing punches at you. So you definitely don`t want to rely on this system as your main source of energy. An example of this is when you see a boxer throwing wild power punches for a whole minute because they think they have their opponent hurt and then are incapable of throwing with any power for the next 3 rounds. Again, you will end up producing some energy anaerobically during a fight but it will be less the more conditioned you are.

As far as training goes. As an mma guy you WILL do alot of anaerobic work. This can`t be avoided when you spar, roll or do pad work. So you are definitely not lacking anaerobic conditioning. However anaerobic training takes a toll on your aerobic engine. Which means that during pure conditioning sessions you want to offet the impact of all the anaerobic work you normally do through aerobic training.

 

[cobrahead1030]

your anaerobic energy systems can work pretty much full force for 1-3 minutes, if you can keep a pace up longer than that, you're still using the aerobic system more than the other two

 

[OnePiece]

What are your goals?

Sprinting and distance running both have their place. Try hill sprints followed by a recovery jog.

 

[YTP]

http://offcycle.org/AP/Ovid_%20HELGERUD_%20Med%20Sci%20Sports%20Exerc,%20Volume%2039%284%29.April%202007.665-671.pdf
By Jan Helgerud

 

[perthmma]

Ferrugia is talking about simple recreational jogging, which really wouldnt serve any purpose if you are at 100 bpm.

and you do know that top sprinters spend most their work doing aerobic training?

The difference in physique is that marathon runners purposely stay away from resistance training to carry less weight.

and unless you are fighting/wrestling is completely anaerobic, we'd be dead from a heart attack

Wow you are so wrong

 

[Ian Coe]

You cant control it tight without running with a hr monitor, but nobody can really stay 200+ bpm for over 2 minutes, or anaerobic zone for that matter.

20 minutes of high end aerobic zone 160+ bpm is absolute torture even for well trained people, how anybody can do a whole session staying anaerobic is impossible

Truth

However in time you can keep the workrate that you had at 160 at 145-150, which means keeping the pace going for a hour is much less of a drama (ie possible).

I know you didn't deride aerobic training, but just elaborating the benefits of it.

 

[Ian Coe]

Sprinter

Marathon runner

Hmmm, I wonder which body type would be better for combat sports...

You expect me to believe its the other way around (regarding aerobic and anaerobic) just because you say so? Hmm lets see, trust the knowledge (or lack there of) of some random wanna be on the internet, or the knowledge of a well known strength and conditioning coach with multiple books and tons of clients...wow this is a hard one. Go ahead and insult me more, that is all you have because you can train how you want and Ill train how I want.

That is a terrible analogy

One burns probably 2-3k a day and doesn't eat enough to go back to a surplus in calories. The other does short, sharp bouts and then rests and eats a lot of calories and does power work.

You don't want either build at the end of the day, but a amalgam of the two.

I was heavily into aerobic work through pure training and some supplementary swimming. I then did HIIT work instead and saw that while my 2-3 rounds were indeed hard, fast and strong, 4th and 5th round I was fucked.
For fighting 3 rounders that's ok (aslong as it doesn't go to a fourth deciding round), 5 rounders and you're fucked. Training for 2 hour sessions, even more so.

End of the day, a figher is not a sprinter nor a distance runner. He needs aspects of both.
You would be a fool to think fighting is a pure anaerobic sport.

 

[Ian Coe]

your anaerobic energy systems can work pretty much full force for 1-3 minutes, if you can keep a pace up longer than that, you're still using the aerobic system more than the other two

Not really

20-50s I think is about right, after that the % coming from the anaerobic system decreases more and more.

There a graph somewhere kicking about that gives a workrate : energy system input somewhere and it shows after about 120s the input is something like 95% aerobic.

Disclaimer- I can't remember specific numbers on the ball park, so if anyone has them please pipe up.

 

[Tosa]

 

[Ian Coe]

That's the one

 

[Justice 4 All]

So what's the general consensus here? I'm getting a 2/3 aerobic 1/3 anaerobic training split vibe...

Random thought:
Hmm, if anaerobic were to be the crucial form of respiration, would it not be possible to train it to the extent where you can just walk around for a couple of hours without breathing? lolz.

 

[Ian Coe]

So what's the general consensus here? I'm getting a 2/3 aerobic 1/3 anaerobic training split vibe...

Random thought:
Hmm, if anaerobic were to be the crucial form of respiration, would it not be possible to train it to the extent where you can just walk around for a couple of hours without breathing? lolz.

Both :icon_twis

Neither's best, the application is based on the weaknesses of the person who requires greater conditioning for their sport.

As to your tongue in cheek random thought- just because it is a anaerobic reaction, doesn't mean it has anything to do with the level of oxygen in your bloody stream. It just occurs without oxygen because the reaction is too 'fast' (/doesn't require it) to have time to require it.

 

[SKizzit**]

I was wrong, I accept that and I'm glad I learned a lot more on this forum.

 

[Ian Coe]

I was wrong, I accept that and I'm glad I learned a lot more on this forum.

You were learning.

Nothing wrong with that