Difference between shin, and foot kicks?

If you are asking what would be the most effective technique. I couldn't really say without actually performing research on it. Obviously both the ball of the foot and heel would still provide more deformation than the shin, as both are very fleshy surfaces. Both would also probably be safer surfaces than the instep. The ball of the foot would allow for the transfer of energy down the metatarsals (long bones in the foot), just like with a punch, allowing for less damage to any one area or tissue. The heel would strike with the calcaneus which is a very strong bone, and energy could be safely transfered into the tibea. However, both techniques would be more difficult to pull off, which may actually detract from the amount of power the kick could generate.

I think the thing that should be realized is that both kicking with the instep, and the shin can provide enough power for ko's or damage to the torso, and that has been proven time and time again in kickboxing and MMA. Whether one style of kicking is truly more powerful than the other would require fairly indepth research (far more than in that video).

Edit: I do kyokushin myself, but I also have to imagine that MT guys strike the surface with their instep as well. Otherwise they woudl really have to reach
 


I'm sure more people will have other insight too, but this is the best I can give you.


Wasn't the striking surface that Brandon Vera used pretty much the same in both kicks? I suppose maybe the Muay Thai version was slightly down toward the ankle, but he didn't hit the dummy's head with his shin. I saw the difference as chambering vs follow-through - did I miss it?
 
But it's not the same prinicple. The elbow vs. punch changes the surface area ratio compared to the shin vs. foot. Also, the elbow would be moe similar to the knee and the forearm is the equivalent of the shin. So, the forearm vs. fist is the same principle as shin vs. foot.

Moreover, you and the other gentleman are comparing which surface can absorb more damage as opposed to which surface is applying more damage. Obviously, the shin is a better defensive weapon, it's larger surface area is better for dispersing the incoming force. But that's not analogous to which surface is the more powerful offensive weapon.

The foot is bringing more speed and body weight at the time of contact but with a smaller surface area. This makes it an inefficient defensive weapon and requires more precision as an offensive weapon. It doesn't make it weaker.

This doesn't have to be a zero sum argument. Each tool can have pros and cons. The shin is the more versatile tool (offensive and defensive capabilities) and the discrepancy in power is unlikely to be significant.

Speed and deformation on impact are the quintessential differences between the two--this is why I compared punch to elbow. Anatomically its a shat comparison, but fitting within context. Which can absorb more damage in this case equates to which deforms less, anything after that doesn't matter.


I didn't imply that one is right or one is wrong. I use both, sometimes on purpose, sometimes not.

I think we are saying the same thing in a different way.


My quote skills=EPIC
 


I'm sure more people will have other insight too, but this is the best I can give you.


Why is Vera- a Muay Thai guy, being used for their Karate kicks? Wouldn't this be more accurate if it was a Karate style kicker and a Muay Thai style kicker performing their respective kicks?
 
What makes a low kick hard is your ability to push THROUGH the target, making the impact felt deep into the femur. You can't get the same amount of torque and follow through using your foot. Leave all that mass x speed bullshit in school. If you've ever been kicked in the leg foot vs shin, or have been the one doing the kicking, you know the difference pretty significantly.

Here's a broken femur via shin kick. You're fooling yourself if you think you can produce that kind of damage with your foot.

 
My coach said to hit with the foot when you're too far away for the shin, and the shin when you're too close for the foot.

Maybe one of these scientists can tell me why that's not ideal, but it seems like a pretty good rule of thumb to me.
 
Low roundhouse and High roundhouse are slightly different anatomically due to the distance required to make substantial contact.

Panamaican had it right: If you observe Vera's post leg on both kicks you'll see that he rotates further on the Muay Thai kick than on the Karate Kick. This is incorrect.
The traditional Karate style kick dictates that you rotate your post leg 170-180 degrees so that your heel is pointed at your target. He only rotates about 90 degrees here.

YouTube - Revolution Of Kicking Vol 1 (RoundHouse Kick)
 
Wasn't the striking surface that Brandon Vera used pretty much the same in both kicks? I suppose maybe the Muay Thai version was slightly down toward the ankle, but he didn't hit the dummy's head with his shin. I saw the difference as chambering vs follow-through - did I miss it?

It definitely looks that way to me as well.
In any case they should have got 2 different fighters to do it.
 
Low roundhouse and High roundhouse are slightly different anatomically due to the distance required to make substantial contact.

Panamaican had it right: If you observe Vera's post leg on both kicks you'll see that he rotates further on the Muay Thai kick than on the Karate Kick. This is incorrect.
The traditional Karate style kick dictates that you rotate your post leg 170-180 degrees so that your heel is pointed at your target. He only rotates about 90 degrees here.

YouTube - Revolution Of Kicking Vol 1 (RoundHouse Kick)


that video is a tkd roundhouse not a Karate Roundhouse..
 
That and neither one of the kicks was especially great.
 
When I think of the damage a good side thrust kick to the stomach could do...oooh.

The heel would just sink right in. It's such a powerful movement.

I have trouble picturing a kick with the shins that would be as powerful...when I think about it, it seems like you'll have your hips jammed trying to connect that close.
 
In an ideal world, all of us should be able to kick with the ball of the foot, it's way less prone to injure than both shin and top of the foot. Just ask your little sister to kick your shin with her ball of the foot, she won't feel a quarter of the pain you will. :D
 
In an ideal world, all of us should be able to kick with the ball of the foot, it's way less prone to injure than both shin and top of the foot. Just ask your little sister to kick your shin with her ball of the foot, she won't feel a quarter of the pain you will. :D

That's the old Japanese style, its indeed painful. The only part of the shin worth connecting with is the bottom 3 inches. Anything higher up the leg will hurt if blocked and will lose torque from being too far away from the end of the power chain.
 
...The only part of the shin worth connecting with is the bottom 3 inches...
Not in my experience. Kicking to the body or thigh with the middle of the shin makes that "thudding" impact that hurts like hell. I know this defies the "end of the power chain" theory, but in actual practice it's true.

Try both ways next time you're kicking pads, and ask your padholder which kick would hurt more.
 


I'm sure more people will have other insight too, but this is the best I can give you.


Just one to point out that was a terrible foot kick. No rotation of the hip, the bas foot was static and not driving. That said still more than enough force to knock some out or break bones.
 
When I think of the damage a good side thrust kick to the stomach could do...oooh.

The heel would just sink right in. It's such a powerful movement.

I have trouble picturing a kick with the shins that would be as powerful...when I think about it, it seems like you'll have your hips jammed trying to connect that close.
I'm pretty sure this thread is about round kicks. Round kicks with the shin break ribs, arms, and legs pretty frequently.

I think people are having trouble grasping the concept of kicking THROUGH the target vs kicking the target. A Thai style round kick with the shin isn't thrown like a whip, its thrown like a baseball bat.
 
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