Difference between shin, and foot kicks?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by CollarTie, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. CollarTie

    CollarTie Blue Belt

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    Sorry, bit clueless in the world of kickboxing, but I've just got a quick question. What's the major differences between kicking with your feet, and kicking with your shin? Is one faster? Another more powerful? Safer? Is there no difference at all? Any input appreciated.
     
  2. Fierce0virus

    Fierce0virus White Belt

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    I'm sure more people will have other insight too, but this is the best I can give you.
     
  3. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    The video is useful for distinguishing between MT style and a more snapping style kick but the snap kick style has a shin as well as a foot kick (I don't know if MT ever lands their roundhouse with the foot). So the rest of my post is with the assumption that we're talking point of contact differences and not underlying kicking style differences, cool?

    The only main difference between landing with the foot vs. the shin is the size of the point of contact. The usual discussions about surface area apply here so that the ball or blade of the foot is more apporpriate when aiming for a precise target and the shin is more appropriate for generalized damage to an area. Personally, I can't think of many targets I can hit consistently where it's going to make a difference but in search of an example - it would be easier to strike a specific rib with the ball or blade of the foot than with the shin where the damage would be likely to strike more than one rib, although the end results, a cracked rib, might be similar.

    The secondary difference is range. Obviously, there's slightly more range with foot vs. the shin.

    Many people will mention that the foot is composed of many small bones and prone to breaking if not conditioned properly. Prior to this conditioning, the amount of power that can be safely applied with the foot is notably less than with the shin. This is a drawback and should be considered before applying foot against any particularly hard surface or until you get around to conditioning your foot. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2010
  4. ThaWizard

    ThaWizard Purple Belt

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    Im not sure but I think I would much rather get kicked with the foot. The shin just seems a lot harder and more powerfull
     
  5. LEGS MAHONEY

    LEGS MAHONEY genetically modified man shark

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    the major difference is that one is with your shin and the other with your foot:icon_chee
     
  6. shotokankid1**

    shotokankid1** Orange Belt

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    the foot has more range.and getting kicked with the shin opens cuts easily because of the shin.(watch bj penn vs diego sanchez).but getting kicked with the foot is more powerful and easier to knock someone out because its moving faster than the shin which means more powerful. hitting with the shin is blunt force.and hitting with the foot is sharp force.

    but im not saying foot>shin there both good but i prefer hitting with the foot
     
  7. HBbadb0y

    HBbadb0y Yellow Belt

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    I disagree with the foot being more powerful and a sharper force. Also there is a higher risk of injury kicking with the foot as there are many smaller bones. Sure you can train your foot so you will feel less pain (same with shin), but it is still weaker than the shin.
     
  8. stuntcum

    stuntcum Yellow Belt

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    foot is further away from the hip joint, so it will land with more force.

    The shin is a harder surface and does not deform on impact.
     
  9. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    As the guy above me already stated, you get more speed and power at the foot than the shin because it's the furthest point from the joint that's driving the kick, the hip. The risk of injury is greater primarily because the appropriate point of contact on the foot, the ball or blade, is smaller than with the shin. So it becomes easier to accidentally make contact with a portion of the foot that wasn't designed to take that type of pressure.

    Think about it like throwing punch, you never want to land with just the ring and pinkie finger knuckles because that portion of your fist is the least structurally capable of taking the force. The ball of the foot is the structurally strongest part of the foot and as capable of delivering the force of a strong kick as the shin. Every step you make, every time you jump, plant, etc. the ball of the foot takes that pressure, it is very strong and you've been strengthening it since you learned how to walk.

    And you're not training your foot or shin to feel less pain, you're training them to be thicker and less likely to break. The decrease in pain is more a beneficial side effect than the main point.
     
  10. xilliun

    xilliun Brown Belt

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    This. For those saying that the foot delivers more power than the shin, check the results.
     
  11. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    That difference has more to do with the style of kick than the striking surface. Re-watch the video and study the entire kick style differences, not just the numbers.

    When applying the MT kick, Vera follows all the way through the target. When applying the karate kick, he strikes the target and then retracts the kicking leg. Follow through increases force, it's common in all forms of striking, whether your punching or kicking.

    That's why it's important to separate kicking style from striking surface.
     
  12. HBbadb0y

    HBbadb0y Yellow Belt

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    I understand what you are saying, thats why I didn't reply to your previous post. I know the mechanics of the body and yes the foot is farther away from the hip, thus creating more speed and power. However, you can apply a lot more power throwing a kick with the shin in real life scenario and not from a scientific standpoint. The tibia is bigger and stronger than the tarsal bones.

    Would you rather get your kick checked by your foot or shin if you were throwing the kick at full power?
     
  13. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I guess I'm not understanding what the difference is between a real life scenario and a scientific standpoint? Doesn't the scientific standpoint explain what is happening in a real life scenario?

    I specifically addressed the need to condition your foot and the need to be precise in landing a kick with only the ball of the foot and not the other tarsals because of the shin's naturally heavier and larger bone compared with the fraility in the majority of bones in the foot.

    It seems like you're treating all targets as the same when they are not. I would agree that checking a kick with the shin is preferable to checking it with the ball of the foot but that's the equivalent of saying you should parry with your forearm and not your fist. It's true but that doesn't mean that striking with your forearm causes more damage than striking with your fist. It is the method by which you implement the kick that's going to determine the power behind it and it's the density of the target that determines which tool is most efficient for striking it.

    If your hip joint is the root of the rotation in your kick, the foot is going to be traveling with the most speed and have more of your body weight behind it at time of contact. That doesn't make it the best tool for every target but it's still the more powerful tool.
     
  14. stuntcum

    stuntcum Yellow Belt

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  15. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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  16. Jaedong

    Jaedong Blue Belt

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    Both work, but I like foot kicks with the very lower shin included in low kicks. Lower on the leg effecting in a little more power and importantly range. Shin is harder and less likely to get injured, altough I feel like my food might be even harder, but shin is at least heavier.

    Crocop kicks people in the head with his foot, kicked magomedow in the liver with the foot, Barry with the shin I think. I don't know about low kicks.
     
  17. Jaedong

    Jaedong Blue Belt

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    resulting - not effecting

    sorry can't edit
     
  18. Sizzerb

    Sizzerb White Belt

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    Shin is big, hard to break, strong and hurts people more when you hit the meat. Foot is small, has small bones, breaks easier and hurts people less when you hit the meat.
     
  19. Bennosuke

    Bennosuke Blue Belt

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    As stated above the foot provides a greater reach (and thus marginally greater torque) to the kick. This reach advantage can be significant with head kicks, since so much reach is lost as the leg is lifted. However, the foot is deforms more, meaning impulse will be lost and thus less force will be transmitted with the foot. In general, a kick with the foot will land with the instep near the ankle joint (not near the toes).

    The shin is a harder surface and also sharper so more likely to cut. It is thus a better surface for kicking harder surfaces and should be used for leg kicks (kicking a checking shin with your foot really hurts).

    The results of the video showed above are pretty bogus on two counts. First off, the "muay Thai" kick was slower. Those who study the Force Power Velocity curve (I was a kinesiology major in college), understand that more force is generated in a slower motion. Since both kicks were ballistic the slower kick would naturally provide more force. PM me if you want the FPV curve explained. The "Muay Thai" kick was also more powerful because of the mechanics. Vera did not follow through with his Karate style kick (notice how his leg snapped back in the karate kick, but followed through the target in the MT kick).

    Long winded but those are my thoughts.
     
  20. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Good read. How does you analysis change (particularly in relation to deformation) if, instead of the instep, the contact point is: 1) the ball of the foot (the bone at the base of the big toe) or 2) the heel of the foot?
     

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