International Did COVID come from a Lab in China? US Energy Dept asserts it was a lab leak [megathread]

Typical pattern.

Common sense is mocked, ridiculed, and censored and many months or years later the truth is revealed as if it's some novel idea... usually when it doesn't matter anymore in any material way.


It should have always been believed to come from the lab unless proven otherwise. The next logical question should be was it released on purpose?
 
EndlessCritic said:
Validate what narrative?

Of course I have no idea how to evaluate whether COVID has a lab origin, natural origin, or something else.

But what I do know with a high degree of confidence is that those who called the lab origin theory "disinformation" were unquestionably engaging in their own disinformation campaign. Wanting those people to be held accountable should not be a controversial or partisan issue.
Click to expand...

You may not know how to evaluate origins, but others do, and have. Many of the biologists who extensively investigated this question over the past few years were arguing that the LL was a plausible hypothesis early on. They put in the countless hours of hard work and evaluated alternative hypotheses. One side has repeatedly published evidence supporting their claims. Those who willfully ignore that evidence and continually regurgitate mindless talking points about a lab leak are deserving of a disinformation label. The same morons calling for Fauci to be arrested couldn’t write a single paragraph describing the evidence for a lab leak.
 
Siver! said:
You tagged me incorrectly.

I wouldn't have thought it would be that difficult for a mod.

The Energy Department made its judgment with “low confidence”

This would appear to be the critical statement, but sure, 'not put to bed' I suppose.

Great timing for the US to release such a report amid tensions with China.

<LikeReally5>
Click to expand...
What do you think I was invoking when I used the term "confidence"?
hello-mcfly.gif


The disagreeing four agencies also gave "low confidence" in their assessments. The people publishing these studies factor in merely as evidence towards these overall confidence assessments. That's why the rare gain-of-function genetic sequence, created in a Chinese laboratory (in part aided by American governmental funding), is also not a walk-off conviction for one conclusion over the other, and any single study hasn't "put to bed" the mystery. It's all circumstantial and correlative.
 
Greco_Wiz said:
You may not know how to evaluate origins, but others do, and have. Many of the biologists who extensively investigated this question over the past few years were arguing that the LL was a plausible hypothesis early on. They put in the countless hours of hard work and evaluated alternative hypotheses. One side has repeatedly published evidence supporting their claims. Those who willfully ignore that evidence and continually regurgitate mindless talking points about a lab leak are deserving of a disinformation label. The same morons calling for Fauci to be arrested couldn’t write a single paragraph describing the evidence for a lab leak.
Click to expand...
It's not like the Wuhan lab was going to offer up evidence of their leak. The fact the lab was there, and they were performing gain-of-function experiments on coronaviruses is pretty strong evidence. The fact there is no natural source, bat or otherwise, is also evidence. The coverup is evidence. China's shutting down travel between Wuhan and other Chinese cities, while allowing people from Wuhan to travel to Italy, New York, CA, etc... is evidence they didn't give a fuck about anybody else, or worse, were actively trying to spread the virus worldwide. Dude, use some common sense. You almost sound like a defense lawyer who's defending a serial killer. Democrats and the press are protecting China because China has been buying them off for decades, especially Joe Biden. Biden has returned the favors by helping China become part of the World Trade Organization, complete with "developing nation" status, which they still enjoy. Trump has been bemoaning this forever and Democrats (like Oprah) loved him for it, as did American union workers.
The lab itself use to be in North Carolina, but it was deemed dangerous, so Obama shut it down, then it amazingly appeared in China. I would love to hear the meeting minutes on how that took place. You just lack information, or the ability to process information. You are defending a communist country who murdered millions of babies and forced sterilization on women because of their one child policy. They beat workers who protest poor working conditions. The richest people in China moved trillions to the Cayman Islands and other shelters. Biden is both a Russian pawn, because of Ukraine corruption, and a China pawn, because they bought both him and Hunter.
 
Madmick said:
What do you think I was invoking when I used the term "confidence"?
hello-mcfly.gif


The disagreeing four agencies also gave "low confidence" in their assessments. The people publishing these studies factor in merely as evidence towards these overall confidence assessments. That's why the rare gain-of-function genetic sequence, created in a Chinese laboratory (in part aided by American governmental funding), is also not a walk-off conviction for one conclusion over the other, and any single study hasn't "put to bed" the mystery. It's all circumstantial and correlative.
Click to expand...

Not a rare GoF sequence whatsoever. That was a comically ignorant talking point that an intro bio course could’ve cured.

As mentioned, one side of this debate has repeatedly published high quality research supporting their position. The other has not, and there’s a reason for that.
 
"Low Confidence"

I wouldn't be surprised if it was though
 
Reffson said:
It's not like the Wuhan lab was going to offer up evidence of their leak. The fact the lab was there, and they were performing gain-of-function experiments on coronaviruses is pretty strong evidence. The fact there is no natural source, bat or otherwise, is also evidence. The coverup is evidence. China's shutting down travel between Wuhan and other Chinese cities, while allowing people from Wuhan to travel to Italy, New York, CA, etc... is evidence they didn't give a fuck about anybody else, or worse, were actively trying to spread the virus worldwide. Dude, use some common sense. You almost sound like a defense lawyer who's defending a serial killer. Democrats and the press are protecting China because China has been buying them off for decades, especially Joe Biden. Biden has returned the favors by helping China become part of the World Trade Organization, complete with "developing nation" status, which they still enjoy. Trump has been bemoaning this forever and Democrats (like Oprah) loved him for it, as did American union workers.
The lab itself use to be in North Carolina, but it was deemed dangerous, so Obama shut it down, then it amazingly appeared in China. I would love to hear the meeting minutes on how that took place. You just lack information, or the ability to process information. You are defending a communist country who murdered millions of babies and forced sterilization on women because of their one child policy. They beat workers who protest poor working conditions. The richest people in China moved trillions to the Cayman Islands and other shelters. Biden is both a Russian pawn, because of Ukraine corruption, and a China pawn, because they bought both him and Hunter.
Click to expand...

The Chinese government has done itself no favors. A complete lack of transparency. But what it did is entirely consistent with how it acts on most issues, including trying to cover up SARS1. It’s not evidence of a lab leak. The Chinese gov didn’t want to be blamed for the pandemic period. It tried every blame game possible and still denies a wet market or even Chinese origin to the pandemic. If the CCDC knew it escaped from a lab, it probably would’ve welcomed a wet market origin story. The truth is China didn’t want to be responsible for this pandemic in any capacity, but that is not evidence for a lab leak. It’s exactly what you’d expect from the Chinese if the virus originated in their country by any means.
 
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