Did cain really changed jds or...

- MIR: had won 3 in a row, including stopping Crocop and Big Nog. It was def "Prime Mir".

- WERDUM: if it wasnt his prime, it was sure close- he had won 3 of last, 4, then went on another 3 fight win streak including subbing Fedor. if he wasnt in his "prime", he was certainly a great win.

- you conveniently didnt mention Carwin, Cain or Crocop.
I was talking only about the last tree wins of his contract but no, cro cop was not in his prime and im gonna get some shit here but fuck it he was overrated as fuk even in pride, and shane carwin was a one punch monster who had not very good cardio, trown shade however you want but you put prime shane carwin and derrick lewis and you have a competitive fight and jds won against both. I agree i may have underestimated his mir win but shane carwin and cro cop are not his best wins by far
 
It’s not really debatable. Can ruined jds with those sustained beatings.

if you’ve watched his fights before Cain and after the Cain 2 and 3 rd Cain fight he’s not the same fighter.
 
thats a ridiculous summary of JDS best wins.

Cain
Carwin
Mir
Werdum
Crocop
Hunt

all in their prime.

youd have trouble finding a HW with 5 prime wins that are better.

Werdum wasn't in his prime !

Hunt was on short notice !

Crocop wasn't in his prime !

Cain was off since 1 year and was surprised, everybody saw the next fight what happened !

Just Mir was around his prime, and maybe Carwin, but Carwin was lighter than ever, it wasn't the good one for fight JDS, with extra weight he punched harder and maybe could KO JDS !
 
Better competition? Half the guys from back then are still fighting and winning
 
TS is being overly critical of JDS but it's kind of close to a truth -- JDS's decline is due to him never evolving as a fighter, he always had the same flaws Cain exposed and his chin slowly and predictably declined into its current glass state.

Cain didn't "ruin" him, if that were true he wouldn't have won that brutal 5 round war vs Stipe after the Cain beatdowns.

He has a ton of fight mileage and never learned elite-level defense while using a style that involved trading with your opponent. It worked for awhile and got him gold but you get figured out quickly if you don't evolve.

A bit shameful how the UFC continues feeding him to the lions but that's the fight game.
 
Cain did fuck him up but USADA did way worse of a number on him in my opinion.
 
TS is being overly critical of JDS but it's kind of close to a truth -- JDS's decline is due to him never evolving as a fighter, he always had the same flaws Cain exposed and his chin slowly and predictably declined into its current glass state.

Cain didn't "ruin" him, if that were true he wouldn't have won that brutal 5 round war vs Stipe after the Cain beatdowns.

He has a ton of fight mileage and never learned elite-level defense while using a style that involved trading with your opponent. It worked for awhile and got him gold but you get figured out quickly if you don't evolve.

A bit shameful how the UFC continues feeding him to the lions but that's the fight game.

Cain didn't ruin him but he took a hell of a lot out of him that's for sure. just like current Aldo. McGregor didn't completely turn him into a can but he's clearly not the same as he was before that fight.

i don't think JDS had to evolve. what fucked him over is his diminishing skills. he had WAY better timing before and was much faster. he also had better discipline to not constantly wing wild shots compared to now and he's clearly getting rocked by strikes he wouldn't have in the past.
 
Trying to undersell JDS' resume by pointing to Mir, Roy, and Gonzaga, but conveniently leaves out KOs over Cain and Werdum and domination over Carwin. Sounds legit.

Not only did the Cain beatings diminish the rest of JDS' career, they probably took a few years off his life. As Teddy Atlas says, in brutal fights like those, the fighter leaves a part of themselves in the ring (or cage).
 
TS is being overly critical of JDS but it's kind of close to a truth -- JDS's decline is due to him never evolving as a fighter, he always had the same flaws Cain exposed and his chin slowly and predictably declined into its current glass state.

Cain didn't "ruin" him, if that were true he wouldn't have won that brutal 5 round war vs Stipe after the Cain beatdowns.

He has a ton of fight mileage and never learned elite-level defense while using a style that involved trading with your opponent. It worked for awhile and got him gold but you get figured out quickly if you don't evolve.

A bit shameful how the UFC continues feeding him to the lions but that's the fight game.

A fighter can be a diminished version of himself and still win fights. From the first minute of that fight, it was apparent that JDS had lost a step. Had Stipe not gassed, he would've won that fight comfortably.

That was a crossroads fight where it was clear that JDS was on the decline and Stipe was coming into his own. The rematch put the stamp on it. Prime for Prime, those two are evenly matched and I wouldn't bet on it.

I don't really get TS' point anyways. After losing to Cain, JDS only lost to Overeem and Stipe. Those guys are on the same level as Cain. Everyone else still sucked.

His last four KO losses are not up for debate. He was clearly out of it by then and anyone who argues otherwise is just blind.
 
Stipe was a great win too. I know I'm in the minority here, but I favor a prime/near prime JDS over any version of Stipe. While Cro Cop was past prime, he was fast af and injury free before UFC 103 and looked damn good. JDS took a little damage but still finished him.

JDS is mega underrated imo. At his peak, he could beat any HW ever. I'd only favor a 2 or 3 over him prime for prime.

Definitely agree! Considering that the JDS who had just gotten demolished by Cain was able to beat Stipe across a 5 round war, Prime JDS would've murked any version of Stipe.

Besides his chin, the biggest thing that JDS lost after the Cain beatings was his speed. He was SUPER fast for a heavyweight, and it was his movement that enabled him to beat so many guys for so long. After he lost the speed, he had to rely on his toughness more, and now that's starting to go away after all the wars.
 
TS is being overly critical of JDS but it's kind of close to a truth -- JDS's decline is due to him never evolving as a fighter, he always had the same flaws Cain exposed and his chin slowly and predictably declined into its current glass state.

Cain didn't "ruin" him, if that were true he wouldn't have won that brutal 5 round war vs Stipe after the Cain beatdowns.

He has a ton of fight mileage and never learned elite-level defense while using a style that involved trading with your opponent. It worked for awhile and got him gold but you get figured out quickly if you don't evolve.

A bit shameful how the UFC continues feeding him to the lions but that's the fight game.
I didn't want to be if it sounded like that, jds is one of the best hws of all time but people vastly overestimate him pre cain. Truth be told i think he only true turned the key from worst after the stipe 2 fight, people often say he lost his chin but he was never really hurt before cain and cain is not a hard puncher. We don't truly know if his chin was that good cause he wasn't fighting ngannou back them
 
We don't truly know if his chin was that good cause he wasn't fighting ngannou back them

these comment keep getting worse.

he fought Carwin, Nelson, and Hunt.

we know for sure his chin was fantastic.
 
Cain didn't ruin him but he took a hell of a lot out of him that's for sure. just like current Aldo. McGregor didn't completely turn him into a can but he's clearly not the same as he was before that fight.

I'm sorry but this is a terrible take, guarantee Aldo took more cumulative damage many times from a long hard sparring session than a 13 second ko loss.

The fact you think you see some big difference in Aldo pre and post McGregor outs you as not knowing what you're watching
 
Definitely agree! Considering that the JDS who had just gotten demolished by Cain was able to beat Stipe across a 5 round war, Prime JDS would've murked any version of Stipe.

Besides his chin, the biggest thing that JDS lost after the Cain beatings was his speed. He was SUPER fast for a heavyweight, and it was his movement that enabled him to beat so many guys for so long. After he lost the speed, he had to rely on his toughness more, and now that's starting to go away after all the wars.

He lost speed because he bulked up for TDD instead of training grappling the way he should have. Not saying Cain didn't have a partial impact, but JDS responded to both those losses in the worst way possible.
 
When a Brazilian faces adversity, they fold. Is normal.
He didn't fold against Cain in two of the most brutal beatdowns in UFC history, he even went for a guillotine trying to win when he was done. and he then beat Stipe in a brutal fight.
 
He didn't fold against Cain in two of the most brutal beatdowns in UFC history, he even went for a guillotine trying to win when he was done. and he then beat Stipe in a brutal fight.
Brazil makes a good hammer, not a nail
 
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